Chilled fuel BOAC B707's Moscow to Tokyo

[mustbeaboeing]

Hi All.

Any truth that to get the weight of fuel on B707's (do not know which model) operated by BOAC, on the route Moscow to Tokyo, the fuel was chilled ?

This has nothing to do with recent events and possible chilled fuel. Just trying to put a lid on something I was told by BOAC/BA B707 pilot over thirty years ago (and it has been 'bugging' me ever since).

[Bullethead]

Chilled fuel was available from Bahrain years ago to get the mass of fuel you needed when the ambient temp was high and the fuel SG was low.

I can't imagine chilled fuel out of Moscow would be a whole lot colder than ambient on most days, but it is possible.

One problem with chilled fuel in Bahrain, or anywhere for that matter, you had to get airborne fairly smartly before the fuel started to heat up and expand with the obvious result.

Regards,
BH.

[Seat62K]

It would have been 707-336s.

Off topic, I know, but does anyone remember the "Russiaway to Japan" advertising that BOAC used? Or the fact that the UK government had to grant the Soviet Union London-Moscow-Tokyo rights (flown by IL62s and shown alongside BOAC flights in the latter's timetables)?!

(There was "Japan Easy" too, but this might have been used for flights via Anchorage.)

[The SSK]

I remember being told that the London-San Francisco -436s in the mid-60s used to fill up immediately after landing, when the tanks were still cold....

Or the fact that the UK government had to grant the Soviet Union London-Moscow-Tokyo rights (flown by IL62s and shown alongside BOAC flights in the latter's timetables)

Believe it or not, the echoes of this are still a big issue in European/Russian trade relations. When the Moscow stop was required for operational reasons, Aeroflot could in theory compete by offering a comparable one-stop service between Europe and Japan. Once the 747s and DC10s started overflying Moscow, the Russian retort was to require European airlines to make compensatory payments (‘royalties’) to Aeroflot for their loss of competitiveness.

These royalties are still ongoing and amount to about £400 million a year. The Europeans have been trying for years to get them abolished (they are in contravention of international air law) but getting the Russians to budge is like …

[Speedbird48]

Chilled Fuel.

Chilled fuel was also available in Nairobi. I filled a Comet with it once to get some more range Northbound.

Speedbird 48.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Seat62K

It would have been 707-336s.

Off topic, I know, but does anyone remember the "Russiaway to Japan" advertising that BOAC used? Or the fact that the UK government had to grant the Soviet Union London-Moscow-Tokyo rights (flown by IL62s and shown alongside BOAC flights in the latter's timetables)?

The "Russiaway" aircraft were two Boeing 707-336B, G-AXXY and 'XZ, wich came in spring 1971 (after the first BOAC 747s arrived), the only two of this sub-type that BOAC bought. They must have had a bit more range that none of the rest of the fleet had to justify buying a special type, especially when the 707s successor was already being delivered, so they were obviously tight on range.

Yes I remember the Russiaway ads, among others on the BOAC double-deck buses that ran between Victoria and Terminal 3 at the time.

There's still a little vestige of that old Aeroflot through service from London to Tokyo, started nearly 40 years ago. The Aeroflot flights from London to Moscow, now several a day, are numbered in the SU241-248 range, but two flights a week each way still have flight numbers SU581-2, which are the numbers of continuation services to Tokyo. Nowadays they are nothing more than straightforward London-Moscow flights, with A321 aircraft, but the old agreement seems to allow whatever frequency is agreed jointly with BA between London and Moscow, plus these extra two which Aeroflot get to run and sell seats to Moscow on as well.

Soviet-era capacity-agreement diplomacy still at its finest !

Originally Posted by Bullethead

I can't imagine chilled fuel out of Moscow would be a whole lot colder than ambient on most days

I guess you haven't been in Moscow much in July, when it often tops 30 degrees, plus there would be a whole lot of difficulty making an en-route fuel stop if needed. However I would have thought that the greater difficulty would be westbound out of Tokyo, against the prevailing winds.

[arem]

Yes - XY and XZ were bought for the SVO-NRT route. However they were pure pax aircraft hence their basic weights were lower than the C variants because they didn't have the reinforced floors required for cargo ops , as well as none of the specialised cargo equipment - rollers etc. This basically mean't we could put more fuel on.

The fuel problem wasn't the SVO-NRT sector but the return NRT-SVO especially in the winter when we had little faith in Russian ATC in the Moscow area so we generally carried LED or if possible HEL as diversion.

There were the occasional diversions and the hope was always to try to get all the way to LHR but I don't think anybody ever made it - I think the nearest was to CPH. Once the -400's arrived NRT-LHR became a no-brainer!!

BTW - out of NRT we certainly had High SG fuel available in the summer, but I don't remember any out of SVO - but I don't recall any problems getting to NRT requiring it

[mustbeaboeing]

Many Thanks All. Obviously the best Site and Forum to post this question.

Must Be A Boeing................