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Handley Page Hermes IV

Old 30th Jan 2016, 17:43
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Here is a photo that I acquired some years ago. I am not certain of it's origin, but it was apparently taken aboard G-ALDM, whilst operating a Britavia flight from Aden to Nairobi.
Doesn't look as if the air-conditioning was much good!

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Old 30th Jan 2016, 18:33
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What's that sitting in the middle just above their heads that looks like a drone?
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Old 30th Jan 2016, 18:46
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That's an "upside-down" compass with a mirror (angled towards the captain), that allowed you to read it.
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Old 30th Jan 2016, 20:48
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According to a flight article in 1948, the Hermes IV was fitted with a P12 compass in that position.
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Old 31st Jan 2016, 12:08
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Returned home from Cyprus in August 1954 aged four. Was told much later that it was in a Hermes and we landed at Blackbushe.
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Old 31st Jan 2016, 14:45
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Went out in Airwork Hermes G-ALDU? in 1953 from Blackbushe to Nairobi, aged 11. Came back in Britavia Hermes G-ALDX in 1956, via Malta, El Adem, Khartoum and Entebbe. An old bone-shaker, rearward-facing seats, quite noisy but good views as we never got very high. Remember could see camels in the desert. Much later I was a Handley Page apprentice, and much, much later in the UK Customs went on board many a Dart Herald. Thanks for stimulating the memories of long ago, TonyTech, and for your generous words about the Hermes.
PS: The Hermes was not the only prop aircraft that BOAC got rid of in quantity. I remember lines of redundant BOAC Argonauts at LHR in the 60s when I worked there. I used to wonder what happened to them. Excuse thread drift: it was at LHR at that time that I first heard stereo individual piped music onboard a Pan Am 707 - it was fabulous!
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Old 31st Jan 2016, 15:25
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Mr OS.........

BOAC operated 22 Canadair C4 Argonauts. Two were lost in service. The remainder were sold to a variety of operators including Aden Airways, East African Airways, Royal Rhodesian Air Force, Overseas Aviation and Derby Airways (later British Midland).
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Old 31st Jan 2016, 15:37
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Manston Jan. 21st 1961

I remember I flew from Manston on Jan.21st 1961 in a Hermes to Germany. (Gutersloh or Wildenrath?)

Vague memories of who would have operated this at the time.
With all the wealth of information so far on this thread, I would welcome any info. about this flight, Operator and destination airfield etc.

It was only my second time flying, first being in an Anson at Cosford in 1957 during Boy Entrant training.
With thanks for any replies.
OPF

Last edited by Old Photo.Fanatic; 31st Jan 2016 at 22:46.
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Old 31st Jan 2016, 21:46
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OPF. By the start of 1961 the largest Hermes fleet belonged to Silver City Airways and was based at Manston. So it was probably one of their aircraft. If I remember correctly the only other operator of the Hermes in 1961 was Air Safaris.
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Old 1st Feb 2016, 08:21
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In the colours of MEA seen here at Bovingdon

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Old 2nd Feb 2016, 15:13
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Above is one of two aircraft MEA leased and had operated by Skyways over three months in summer 1955. Obviously a long enough lease to warrant a (simplistic) repaint and putting on the Lebanese register. It was done while waiting for two Viscounts leased under a longer term arrangement from Hunting-Clan to be prepared.
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Old 3rd Oct 2016, 21:15
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Does anybody have a list of the BOAC aircraft and their corresponding names? I am looking for the registration of R.M.A Honor.
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Old 3rd Oct 2016, 21:37
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G-ALDY according to "Piston Engine Airliner Production List"
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Old 3rd Oct 2016, 22:27
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Many thanks for that.Would you be able to tell me where it was scrapped?
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Old 4th Oct 2016, 11:43
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Some information via G INFO:

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/His...ial/G-ALDY.pdf

Love the anglicised Beyrout.........
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Old 4th Oct 2016, 13:01
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According to Jackson:

- to Skyways, Bovingdon, 09.54
- to MEA as OD-ACC, 06.55 (see photo in earlier post)
- restored to Skyways 10.55
- wfu at Stansted 12.58

As it was not deleted from the British civil register until 05.63, one assumes that it suffered a long, lingering demise at Stansted over nearly a five year period.

Last edited by fauteuil volant; 5th Oct 2016 at 07:04. Reason: Wrong letter
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Old 4th Oct 2016, 23:38
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I wonder if HP made any money building them and how many they thought that they would sell? I also wonder if any parts of the design were incorporated into the Herald?
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Old 5th Oct 2016, 07:11
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I also wonder if any parts of the design were incorporated into the Herald?
I doubt it, since it was a product of Handley Page Reading and had its origins with Miles Aircraft and the M.73 project, which was the lineal descendant of the Miles Marathon.
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Old 5th Oct 2016, 15:59
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Originally Posted by tubby linton View Post
Many thanks for that.Would you be able to tell me where it was scrapped?
Yes, as others have said - scrapped at Stansted (no date given)
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 08:34
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#77 tubby Govt. funded Interim Civil Lincoln/Civil Halifax on 4th and 5th April, 1944. On 15/12/44 UK Govt ordered 79 Avro Tudor II for the Kangaroo Route Team. HP persevered with various iterations of (to be Hermes IV) and received RAF order for 100 Hastings, 9/45. By 4/46 both Canada and Australia had taken Tudor II production licences. All lapsed with BOAC's 11/4/47 rejection of any Tudor (BSAAC did take Mk.IV...and was destroyed by them). In a flurry, Govt. ordered 25 Hermes IV for BOAC, 19/3/47, then 25 C-4M 21/7/48...and there's the rub. DC-4. Pratt R2000. Dependable Engines (it took awhile for RR to match Merlin to civil operation).

In 1949 BOAC tried very hard to refuse delivery of Hermes IV: heavy, uneconomic: “this tough attitude (surprised &) disappointed” Sir Fred. HP C.H.Barnes, HP A/c, Putnam, 1976, P466. They were very briefly operated, brought back in a flurry after grounding of Comet 1, then unloaded onto troopers and tramps. Even in 1945 Peter Masefield, working for Beaverbrook, demonstrated on his slide rule that no Tudor or Hermes could breakeven in airline operation.

When Ministers funded these Interims they did not expect to sell many - virtues of Constellation and DC-4 were becoming evident. They were funded: a) to give (whatever British Civil Air Transport industry might emerge) something, $-sparing;
and b) to occupy our Heavy firms until they could produce turbine-powered "supremes".

Last edited by tornadoken; 6th Oct 2016 at 08:59.
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