TAA and the DC-9
James4th. If it was not for the low productivity of pilots in Aust before 1990 you would possibly have been the most experienced DC9 pilot in the world. In my humble opinion 8 years as an F/O and 8 years in command on the DC9 is a bit of a waste of a career.
Nothing like watching and listening to the Ipec DC-9 arriving in YMLT off a DME arrival at 3am, followed by the departure 30 minutes later on a very cold morning. Didn't those JT-8D's make the windows rattle ansd shake.
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A loud DC9? No. They were the "whispering T-Jets" according to the ads of the 60s. The only time they were whispering is when they were stopped overnight. Even the apu was a little screamer.
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B772, you can add to that 4 years on the 717 as well! But why was it a waste of a career? I couldnt get a command until 1980 so I stayed on the Diesel until I got an F27 and did 2 years on it until a -9 command came up. After that I could have left the Girl for the Maggot around '85 but why would I do that? I had almost top bid on the -9 and just about wrote my own roster etc etc ... I aimed to be the last man on the Diesel but a certain event we must not mention intervened ....... and I left our fair shores with only a DC9 endorsement.....
The ultimate degradation was:- the only job I could get was on a 737-200, yeech! I spent a decade in the wilderness of exile. picked up an A320 rating and bummed around for various airlines until I heard a whisper of something called a B717; WTF is that I thought? When I found out, I was back in flash beating on the door of Impulse. So I was reunited will my favourite girl again. (Mrs Jimmie wishes I felt about her the same way
)
The only waste I can see is I should have left the Diesel for the Maggot a year before, errr, that year, but then where would that have led? Probably to Malaysia with the rest of the boys and my life could have turned out quite differently. For instance if the DC-9/717 was still available to me I would still be flying it.
Who can fathom the twists and turns of fate and the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.........
The ultimate degradation was:- the only job I could get was on a 737-200, yeech! I spent a decade in the wilderness of exile. picked up an A320 rating and bummed around for various airlines until I heard a whisper of something called a B717; WTF is that I thought? When I found out, I was back in flash beating on the door of Impulse. So I was reunited will my favourite girl again. (Mrs Jimmie wishes I felt about her the same way
)The only waste I can see is I should have left the Diesel for the Maggot a year before, errr, that year, but then where would that have led? Probably to Malaysia with the rest of the boys and my life could have turned out quite differently. For instance if the DC-9/717 was still available to me I would still be flying it.
Who can fathom the twists and turns of fate and the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.........
James4th. Thanks for the respectable reply. Upon hindsight I was a little cruel in my comments.
Yesterday is history and we can not change that. Based on your reply you may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time to experience the big time. It is also fair to say that if you have enjoyed what you have done and where you have done it with the support of your family you are in a better position than most of our former colleagues.
Yesterday is history and we can not change that. Based on your reply you may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time to experience the big time. It is also fair to say that if you have enjoyed what you have done and where you have done it with the support of your family you are in a better position than most of our former colleagues.
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tk's Airliner Marketing Course Module 101. Despite 34 laudatory pages here by drooling swains, why was DC-9 outsold by 737?
Turbojet types, Caravelle and Comet 4B, had costs p.available seat-mile at or below revenue p.ASM, so profitable only with United, on its densest routes, and v. prop. types. (ex-Vickers) BAC in 1960 launched turbofan 111/200 with Freddie Laker's Br.United A/L (whose motive was to barter patriotism for an Oz-style Two Airlines Policy), and pitched it to Viscount/Vanguard launch customer TCA and to Viscount customer KLM, both DC-8 operators. Douglas then launched DC-9/10 by buying Avro/Malton and putting the wing there, thus snaring TCA, and by committing to reliability/Product Support to KLM >DC-8. BAC shilly/shallied over Product Development and lost TA/AN to DC-9/30 on boring costs and response.
Boeing entered last, snaring Viscount/707/720/727 operator LH by tailoring 737-100 to their Spec, investing in long-lead items like landing gear axles in Economic Order Lots to offer fixed price/early delivery, and polishing a Product Support/AOG service that became benchmark. (QF 707-138 same). MD-80/big JT8D did not match the numbers of 737-300/CFM-56/3. MD-90/717 was tenderly euthanised, seen as cannibalising 737NG. Airbus Industrie, learnt, developing an A320 Offer to match 737s'. And it's the Offer, the numbers, that matters, not the friendliness of the product. You buy Volvos, tank-like, 'cos they go on, and on...and on, like the wife. Same in air carriers: Chief Technical Officers do not buy fillies to gleam; Chief Financial Officers buy hacks to sweat.
Turbojet types, Caravelle and Comet 4B, had costs p.available seat-mile at or below revenue p.ASM, so profitable only with United, on its densest routes, and v. prop. types. (ex-Vickers) BAC in 1960 launched turbofan 111/200 with Freddie Laker's Br.United A/L (whose motive was to barter patriotism for an Oz-style Two Airlines Policy), and pitched it to Viscount/Vanguard launch customer TCA and to Viscount customer KLM, both DC-8 operators. Douglas then launched DC-9/10 by buying Avro/Malton and putting the wing there, thus snaring TCA, and by committing to reliability/Product Support to KLM >DC-8. BAC shilly/shallied over Product Development and lost TA/AN to DC-9/30 on boring costs and response.
Boeing entered last, snaring Viscount/707/720/727 operator LH by tailoring 737-100 to their Spec, investing in long-lead items like landing gear axles in Economic Order Lots to offer fixed price/early delivery, and polishing a Product Support/AOG service that became benchmark. (QF 707-138 same). MD-80/big JT8D did not match the numbers of 737-300/CFM-56/3. MD-90/717 was tenderly euthanised, seen as cannibalising 737NG. Airbus Industrie, learnt, developing an A320 Offer to match 737s'. And it's the Offer, the numbers, that matters, not the friendliness of the product. You buy Volvos, tank-like, 'cos they go on, and on...and on, like the wife. Same in air carriers: Chief Technical Officers do not buy fillies to gleam; Chief Financial Officers buy hacks to sweat.
Last edited by tornadoken; 12th Apr 2009 at 10:14.
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April 13.
Fellow DC9 lovers,today is April 13. Today is exactly 42 years ago that VH-CZB & VH-TJJ arrived in Australia. In 1967 Harold Holt was PM,decimal currency was only just over 1 year in operation,man still hadn't landed on the moon,colour TV was still many years away,waste transfer stations were called dumps & indigenous Australians were known as aborigines. Voting age was 21,yet 19 year old kids were being sent to Vietnam. Anyhoo,the DC9 was certainly a great addition to the fleets,lasting 22 years. Great aeroplane.
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Tornadoken, what was your point? I must be thick but I couldnt understand a word you typed ........
Aye Ess, I didnt know that, but I am now on my knees thanking Donnie Douglas for the DC9 and making my day, month, year and career .....
Aye Ess, I didnt know that, but I am now on my knees thanking Donnie Douglas for the DC9 and making my day, month, year and career .....
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As a pom ex-9 driver I've loved reading this thread! First flew the DC9 in 1979 as a F/O, coming off BAC111's - that's when I learned that a DC9 on one goes better than a 111 on 2! Years later got my first command back on the deisel '9, I was really lucky to have done so.
And yes, we got up to the same sort of stuff as you boys did. Once had an RAF Tornado pilot on the j/seat in a DC-9-15, we were light and kept 6000fpm up to FL250. His comment was that the DC9 went better than his Tornado.
Descent in icing required power on to satisfy the bleed demand so you had to fly "power against drag" (speedbrakes) which always struck me as inelegant - so in the days before 250kt below 10k we would descend thru' the ice levels at Vne to keep the RAT up above +6, thus keeping the wings & tail clean.
Wonderful, classic point-and-go jet - I also flew the MD80 which was lovely, but not as flexible as the '9 in terms of what you could do with it.
Spent 25 yrs on Donald Douglas' lovely jets before they were all taken away and I had to go on the Peugeot (Airbus) for a frontal lobotomy
Thanks for the memories!
And yes, we got up to the same sort of stuff as you boys did. Once had an RAF Tornado pilot on the j/seat in a DC-9-15, we were light and kept 6000fpm up to FL250. His comment was that the DC9 went better than his Tornado.
Descent in icing required power on to satisfy the bleed demand so you had to fly "power against drag" (speedbrakes) which always struck me as inelegant - so in the days before 250kt below 10k we would descend thru' the ice levels at Vne to keep the RAT up above +6, thus keeping the wings & tail clean.
Wonderful, classic point-and-go jet - I also flew the MD80 which was lovely, but not as flexible as the '9 in terms of what you could do with it.
Spent 25 yrs on Donald Douglas' lovely jets before they were all taken away and I had to go on the Peugeot (Airbus) for a frontal lobotomy
Thanks for the memories!
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the baby 9s possibly the best time of my life,no slats a real rocket ,need i say more,dc driver i d forgot about that rat/epr gauge,mind forgot it in the sim quite often as well tut tut,
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Both AN & TN had the same cabin configuration in the DC9.
100 seats all economy but the first 5 rows were convertible, to make a 4 across row for first class. Seating 1AC 1DF etc
100 seats all economy but the first 5 rows were convertible, to make a 4 across row for first class. Seating 1AC 1DF etc
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Vince had many humerous tricks.
Shut down both engines abeam gate ten at the Ansett terminal Tullamarine, coast to his assigned gate, and then yell "Hey" at the daydreaming Traffic Officer.
Talking to Newlyweds Sunday morning in the departure lounge, asking where they were going for the Honeymoon and then producing a Shell Roadmap and asking for directions.
Captain Cadbury was a true Gentleman and liked by all.
Never missed a seat home to Sydney, and insisted staff ride in the jumpseat.
Shut down both engines abeam gate ten at the Ansett terminal Tullamarine, coast to his assigned gate, and then yell "Hey" at the daydreaming Traffic Officer.
Talking to Newlyweds Sunday morning in the departure lounge, asking where they were going for the Honeymoon and then producing a Shell Roadmap and asking for directions.
Captain Cadbury was a true Gentleman and liked by all.
Never missed a seat home to Sydney, and insisted staff ride in the jumpseat.
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Yes there will be more as soon as I have time to use this computer for pleasure and relaxation instead of Training Pilot Rosters, SIMs etc etc .........
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Apologies if it's been mentioned in one of the other 33 pages, but I recall a certain "press-to-test" light on the effoh's side with untold F/O fingerprints burned into the glass.
What was it - gear door light or something? Why was it hot? I recall adding my melted fingerprint to it but can't recall why.
What was it - gear door light or something? Why was it hot? I recall adding my melted fingerprint to it but can't recall why.
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Thanks Gentlemen
Gentleman, this is actually Mrs. Jimmie writing and I do apologising for gate crashing but I just had to tickle the keyboards and thank you all so much for this wonderful thread. You have made me laugh with all your fantastic and oh so funny politically incorrect stories (keep them coming!) your amazing OH&S less tales, (keep them coming!) baffled me with all your technical talk (okay, keep them coming too) and you have made me cry with your outpourings of love not only towards a wonderful time in aviation history but towards a machine that obviously set your hearts and adrenalin a flutter. There have been times when I have walked into our Ops room at home and found James4th either laughing hysterically from a story or silently crying over some wonderful memory that one of you had brought back to him and for that I thank you too.
I was not part of the airline industry, until a certain star shone on James4th and myself 5 years ago, and it was then that I first started to hear about all the wonderful times and adventures that went with flying the old girl, and all of your stories in this magnificent thread have added to my DC9 education. I was lucky to have had a stint at being an “air hostess” (albeit a short one due to James bringing me to this last outpost of Empire) but after hearing all these stories I so wish it had been in your time and flying the old girl (whom I am not one bit jealous off by the way!).
It is a pity that time marches on and things change, and sometimes not always for the better, but your stories and memories will live on and hopefully the younger ones gets to hear them and know of the wonderful times you all experienced and to learn what it was like in the “good old days”. Teresa Green I agree whole heartedly agree with you, you flew the REAL aeroplanes, but may I add to that, gentleman, YOU were the REAL pilots.(With no offence to the newer ones of course.)
I would give one of James’ testicles to be a fly on the wall at a DC9 gathering and if I am ever lucky to do so gents, the first round is on me. Pleeeeaaasseeee someone put these stories down on paper.
Gents, I dips me lid to you ..and as they say in the classics, Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be.
Mrs Jimmie xx
I was not part of the airline industry, until a certain star shone on James4th and myself 5 years ago, and it was then that I first started to hear about all the wonderful times and adventures that went with flying the old girl, and all of your stories in this magnificent thread have added to my DC9 education. I was lucky to have had a stint at being an “air hostess” (albeit a short one due to James bringing me to this last outpost of Empire) but after hearing all these stories I so wish it had been in your time and flying the old girl (whom I am not one bit jealous off by the way!).
It is a pity that time marches on and things change, and sometimes not always for the better, but your stories and memories will live on and hopefully the younger ones gets to hear them and know of the wonderful times you all experienced and to learn what it was like in the “good old days”. Teresa Green I agree whole heartedly agree with you, you flew the REAL aeroplanes, but may I add to that, gentleman, YOU were the REAL pilots.(With no offence to the newer ones of course.)
I would give one of James’ testicles to be a fly on the wall at a DC9 gathering and if I am ever lucky to do so gents, the first round is on me. Pleeeeaaasseeee someone put these stories down on paper.
Gents, I dips me lid to you ..and as they say in the classics, Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be.
Mrs Jimmie xx
I would give one of James’ testicles to be a fly on the wall
Doesn't the poor sod come home knackered enough? Be very careful what you wish for when fairy godmothers are lurking.
