Why can't English Electric Lightnings fly in UK airspace
I'm not saying for a second that operating a Lightning wouldn't be extremely difficult and costly, and with the benefit of hindsight I doubt if anyone would have been able to afford it in any case, but to simply rule-out the concept (as the CAA have effectively done) is just ludicrous. Their supposed concerns with safety bear absolutely no relation to the actual risks involved. But then I think we're all familiar with the modern world of over-obession with safety; this is why air show display lines are slowly drifting into adjacent counties!
Regarding the origional point though.... The UK is densely populated, you can imagine what would happed if the worst was to occur. 'A fast jet in the hands of a civvie'. Its already going that way with the current JP's and Hunters flying about in private hands. Couple this with my understanding of the BAe situation as has been mentioned, the DA falls on them now. Im unsure of the technicalities this entails but i do know that a CAA permit would rely on their compliance, BAe saying not a chance.
Also worth considering the spares required (also maybe a requirement upon BAe?) are no longer produced. Some groups who ground run the lightnings now seem to say they would rather keep them running on the ground for longer than having them fly for a bit then being useless other than a motionless museum piece.
Perhaps someone might like to tell me if im talking bollox?
Edit: Whilst constructing this post 320psi has put it far better than me...
Could i also add that HHA at Scampton, after getting permission for their Bucc project, catagoricaly said they would NOT be persuing a lightning project. I assume they have been hassled many times about that prospect? I believe they would be the ones with the biggest chance of success...
Still, such a shame i would have been only 5 the last time they would have regularly flown over the Humber.... I never got to experience the frightning
Still, such a shame i would have been only 5 the last time they would have regularly flown over the Humber.... I never got to experience the frightning
They do a great job with what they operate, but where would they get a suitable lightning airframe and the spares ?
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Think 320 expalins pretty comprehensively why a lightning won't fly in UK air space - my point was just in answer to the original question of why a Lightning can't operate in UK air space! Either way you look at the matter, it ain't never gonna happen!
Sadly, and with more than a hint of irony, it seems that Britain is the last place you're ever likely to see some of our greatest design and engineering efforts take to the sky.
Sadly, and with more than a hint of irony, it seems that Britain is the last place you're ever likely to see some of our greatest design and engineering efforts take to the sky.
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Yeh they displayed alot, my first encounter with a Lightning was Leic airshow in about 1973, a life changing moment, they flew a solos aircraft at alot of the airshows across the service life of the aircraft.
Last edited by 320psi; 18th Dec 2008 at 21:08.
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Indeed, the solo Lightning display was a pretty traditional feature at most air shows. Can't imagine an Air Tattoo (you know, the real Air Tattoos they used to have at Greenham) without one. Hard to imagine a BofB At Home day without one as well!
Think my biggest regret was spending a day outside Waddington during a Priory exercise, when all the Phantoms launched together (Coningsby was having the runway resurfaced at the time). I was impressed by all those Phantoms but when the guys arrived from Binbrook and told me that all the Lightings had scrambled at the same time (and they did mean all of them) I was a bit miffed!
Still, at least I managed to go supersonic in XS458 back in the happy days when she flew rather than taxied! Ahh, nostalgia ain't what it used to be...
Think my biggest regret was spending a day outside Waddington during a Priory exercise, when all the Phantoms launched together (Coningsby was having the runway resurfaced at the time). I was impressed by all those Phantoms but when the guys arrived from Binbrook and told me that all the Lightings had scrambled at the same time (and they did mean all of them) I was a bit miffed!
Still, at least I managed to go supersonic in XS458 back in the happy days when she flew rather than taxied! Ahh, nostalgia ain't what it used to be...
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3201, thanks for an excellent reply.
you explained it very well.
Does anyone think that this will soon apply to all of the old airshow aircraft (like the spitfire's) in not so many years ?
RD
you explained it very well.
Does anyone think that this will soon apply to all of the old airshow aircraft (like the spitfire's) in not so many years ?
RD
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No worries, Its good to put the record straight
I doubt whether older 'historics' will be affected, different set of rules apply, just different 'animals' altogether.
Insurance will be the biggest killer even for us
I doubt whether older 'historics' will be affected, different set of rules apply, just different 'animals' altogether.
Insurance will be the biggest killer even for us
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Costs would prohibit this, I guess, unless you are hugely rich. If you REALLY want to see them, then go down there, but don't leave it too long!! It was worth the trip.
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As a matter of interest, did they display very often.
One of the best Lightning display pilots in my (amateur) opinion was Mike Thompson.
Sadly, he was killed off Scarborough in the summer of 1983. (Not during an authorised display.)
Cape Town, three months ago -
One of the Lightnings broke the sound barrier at >15000 feet.
An air show spokesman said they received numerous complaints.
"We just wanted to demonstrate what it sounds like to break the sound barrier.
It has two distinct noises, one after the other."
(Not my pictures)
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It never ran on both whilst I was there during two Airshows three years ago, despite technicians efforts. I have to say it was rather noisy being 20 feet away from it whilst they were trying to get it to work!!! Had to move my car to avoid it getting burnt!! Happy days!!.
That first picture has reminded me of a feature of the Lightning that always interested me. The ailerons are on the wingtip rather than the trailing edge. To put it another way, the wings are not conventional swept wings, but deltas with a bit missing.
Do they behave like delta wings or swept wings? And what was the reasoning behind that design?
Do they behave like delta wings or swept wings? And what was the reasoning behind that design?
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If they werent allowed to fly out of the uk, they wont be allowed to fly back, same rules apply if they come and visit.
And I would want to organise the trip back, staging though how many countries ?
All the spares needed, tyres, brakes, Avpin, oils, chutes at each landing stage
,
No inflight refueling, ummmmm
The cost would be sky high, best thing to do is get out to Cape Town its the only way
Flying lawyer, lovely pics, 693 was always the 'Looker'
The one reheat thing could be one of many things, the lightnings reheat system is a nightmare, never 100%, its just one of the things, and at 3.5 gallons per second for each engine, no it aint cheap
Cheers
And I would want to organise the trip back, staging though how many countries ?
All the spares needed, tyres, brakes, Avpin, oils, chutes at each landing stage
, No inflight refueling, ummmmm
The cost would be sky high, best thing to do is get out to Cape Town its the only way
Flying lawyer, lovely pics, 693 was always the 'Looker'
The one reheat thing could be one of many things, the lightnings reheat system is a nightmare, never 100%, its just one of the things, and at 3.5 gallons per second for each engine, no it aint cheap
Cheers
Last edited by 320psi; 21st Dec 2008 at 15:31.
Why does the aircraft in FL's second picture appear to be flying with only one engine on reheat?
(My old airplane ran about 1000Lbs/min on T/O with both burners lit. The supply to the burner looked like a sewer pipe. Glad I wasn't footing the bill)
Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer
One of the best Lightning display pilots in my (amateur) opinion was Mike Thompson.
Saw Mike do an amazing solo display at the BAe families day at Hatfield a few weeks before he was killed. Wasn't expecting a Lightning display so never took my camera......a decision I still regret to this day
However, here's Mike winning the solo aero's trophy at the 1983 RIAT at Greenham Common.
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Interestingly enough, in 1969, the Coltishall display Lightning, (Bob Lightfoot flying I think) dabbled with blue smoke during its solo display. I think they tried it for about two practice sessions before giving up.
What was a fair, sunny day suddenly reduced to about 2000 metres visibility!
What was a fair, sunny day suddenly reduced to about 2000 metres visibility!
