B-36 over Manchester late 1950s
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B36's, then B47's over Heston
If covered earlier in the thread, apologies but B36's were commonplace high over West London in the early post war years - tracking out over the radar monitoring system at the old Heston Airport, Middlesex, operated by the 23rd detachment of the USAF's 3903rd Radar Bomb Scoring Squadron SAC. They were later supplemented, then largely replaced, by B47s. In 1956, the unit moved across to the old Fairey Aviation factory in Hayes, Middlesex. I imagine that many, if not all, of them flew non-stop round trips from the States, culminating in a mock nuclear drop on "Moscow", "Kiev" or wherever - but actually London. How many of them were carrying live nukes? Sends a cold chill down what's left of my old spine.
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The reason for the unusual noise from the B-36 was that the propellers were naturally set at right angles to the fuselage but the wing trailing edges had a small amount of sweep, this caused interference between the wing wash and the propeller rotation. It caused a lot of problems during development and early service and also led to the replacement of the original hollow prop blades with solid blades to alleviate the many cracked blade roots that were suffered.
The prototype aircraft did not use a bogie undercarriage, instead there was a single 110" diameter main wheel, the runway loading meant that there were originally only 3 runways in the US that could take the loading applied by this large wheel. That was the reason why production aircraft switched to a bogie undercarriage so that the runway loading was reduced.
I have a book about the P&W R-4360, it is absolutely fascinating and stands as a testament to these last developments in radial piston engines. There are some interesting stories in it, but the thing that amused me is the comment from someone who used to work in the maintenance side of an airline that used the Boeing Stratocruiser about the way that an engine could be in perfect condition on shut down and then be broken when it became time to restart it. A very complex beast.
The prototype aircraft did not use a bogie undercarriage, instead there was a single 110" diameter main wheel, the runway loading meant that there were originally only 3 runways in the US that could take the loading applied by this large wheel. That was the reason why production aircraft switched to a bogie undercarriage so that the runway loading was reduced.
I have a book about the P&W R-4360, it is absolutely fascinating and stands as a testament to these last developments in radial piston engines. There are some interesting stories in it, but the thing that amused me is the comment from someone who used to work in the maintenance side of an airline that used the Boeing Stratocruiser about the way that an engine could be in perfect condition on shut down and then be broken when it became time to restart it. A very complex beast.
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What's the title of the book? I'd love to see if I could get a copy somewhere...
Oh, wait, I found it--Graham White's book. It'll go nicely with his R-2800 book, which I have.
Oh, wait, I found it--Graham White's book. It'll go nicely with his R-2800 book, which I have.
My previous post about the number of airfields the B36 could land east of the Atlantic was based on the single wheel undercarriage. The reasoning became obsolete at about the same time they added four jet engines. The two pods were, literally, lifted off the Boeing B47. The reason was that with growing weight the aircraft could not meet it designed speed and altitude over its target so it needed more boost; the four jet engines did that. In the normal cruise around the Atlantic they used to shut down two engines and fly around on four.
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Some of the aeromodellers might be aware of this B.36 model being built in the states. You might skip through the thread as there is so much of it. If you love the B.36, you'll be amazed at this.
Jeff.
257" B-36D Scratch Build 6 a turning and 4 a burning - RC Groups
Jeff.
257" B-36D Scratch Build 6 a turning and 4 a burning - RC Groups
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Burtonwood in news today as proposed site for new 'super prison' which prompts me to make this post.
As a ten or eleven year old around 1957 I lived in Rusholme, just a couple of miles south of Manchester city centre. I remember one evening, not too late, when people all around were brought out of their houses by the tremendous earth-shaking rumbling of a huge aircraft which was circling continuously for what seemed an age. There was very low cloud at the time which probably amplified the noise but on a couple of occasions the huge silhouette of a Convair B-36 could be made out and , Boy, was it low! The intrusion by this behemoth with its six pusher piston engines was treated as a major incident by the press and people were talking about it for weeks.
Can anyone throw light on this? Was it simply hopelessly lost, burning fuel or some Yank's idea of a joke by deliberately frightening the life out of the good citizens of Manchester?
As a ten or eleven year old around 1957 I lived in Rusholme, just a couple of miles south of Manchester city centre. I remember one evening, not too late, when people all around were brought out of their houses by the tremendous earth-shaking rumbling of a huge aircraft which was circling continuously for what seemed an age. There was very low cloud at the time which probably amplified the noise but on a couple of occasions the huge silhouette of a Convair B-36 could be made out and , Boy, was it low! The intrusion by this behemoth with its six pusher piston engines was treated as a major incident by the press and people were talking about it for weeks.
Can anyone throw light on this? Was it simply hopelessly lost, burning fuel or some Yank's idea of a joke by deliberately frightening the life out of the good citizens of Manchester?
Spoiler
Only once saw a '36 in flight but heard them frequently as a child. They routed inbound over Cornwall and the noise was unmistakeable - to me, it was reminiscent of a motor cycle! Surprised no mention made of the other crash of a 36 in UK . An odd tale with the version I heard being that it suffered a main engine shutdown and, for whatever reason, the crew bailed out. The aircraft circled on its own for nearly an hour and finally crashed at or near Lechlade, the wreckage spreading across three counties! - the county borders coincide near Lechlade. My knowledge of it comes from the fact that my brother (then in the RAF) was on guard duty at the site for 24 hours. While, today, I find it strange that this incident has not been mentioned, at the time, aircraft (especially military types) crashed often enough to make such things relatively unremarkable.
Only once saw a '36 in flight but heard them frequently as a child. They routed inbound over Cornwall and the noise was unmistakeable - to me, it was reminiscent of a motor cycle! Surprised no mention made of the other crash of a 36 in UK . An odd tale with the version I heard being that it suffered a main engine shutdown and, for whatever reason, the crew bailed out. The aircraft circled on its own for nearly an hour and finally crashed at or near Lechlade, the wreckage spreading across three counties! - the county borders coincide near Lechlade. My knowledge of it comes from the fact that my brother (then in the RAF) was on guard duty at the site for 24 hours. While, today, I find it strange that this incident has not been mentioned, at the time, aircraft (especially military types) crashed often enough to make such things relatively unremarkable.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Hi wiccan
The aircraft you saw in the 50s probably was an RB 29 refueling some aircraft. About 1957 there was an air display at Liverpool Speke airport and I remember seeing an RB29 refueling three USAF fighters as part of the display (it would not be allowed now).
The aircraft you saw in the 50s probably was an RB 29 refueling some aircraft. About 1957 there was an air display at Liverpool Speke airport and I remember seeing an RB29 refueling three USAF fighters as part of the display (it would not be allowed now).
I remember one bright blue-sky day,mid-50`s,out in a field near our house,flying my Mills.75 cc model,and becoming aware of a very strange deep noise; then saw in the distance a contrail.Gradually the noise got louder,contrail got wider and one could count about 8 trails.I knew it was a B-36 as I`d seen pictures in the `Eagle` magazine,probably at about 25-30k,very noisy,and then fading away heading towards N Ireland,then seeing another one coming,more contrails...as one disappeared ,another would come along at about 10-15 minute intervals,for what seemed like hours...the neighbours were all out watching,so I was able to tell everyone they were American B-36s,which probably restored some credibility from being complained about with a `noisy` diesel model aircraft....
Think the noise would be best described as a mix of Shack and Tu-95 Bear...once heard,never forgotten.....
You could throw in a bit of `Huey` into the mix as well....
Think the noise would be best described as a mix of Shack and Tu-95 Bear...once heard,never forgotten.....
You could throw in a bit of `Huey` into the mix as well....
Gnome de PPRuNe
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I've heard the AN-22 a couple of times which I suppose is as close to it as I'll ever get now...
Having heard the An-22 and Tu-95 plus watching Strategic Air Command many, many times (yet still not enough), it would seems that all of these types share a similar sound. I assume it has something to do with lots of prop blades in close proximity? Don't recall the Shack having a similar sound though.
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The Shackleton certainly had a very similar sound, just not as loud. Anything with disturbed air passing through the prop arc seems noisier/different, Cessna 337, Avanti, VariEze, Lake Buccaneer, Chris Jacquard's Spitfire 19 before he replaced the contra-prop Griffon 57 with a 65...
I first thought you could see the shadow of the B-36 flash over the pitcher. But then I realised, that the sun was at the right side of the frame, and the aircraft was flying on the left side, so it was definitely not the bombers shadow.
But what then could it have been?
But what then could it have been?