Fairey Rotodyne
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Fairey Rotodyne
I am in the process of writing a book on Rotodyne, to be published mid-2009.
I already have a wealth of information, sufficient to complete the book, but naturally I would like more if it should become available in time.
I myself flew in Rotodyne towards the end of the programme as a Flight Test Engineer, and in 2003 delivered the ‘Cierva’ Lecture on Rotodyne to the Royal Aeronautical Society in London.
I would like to acquire photographs of:
Photographs need to be of publishable quality (300dpi tif for digital copies) and copyright must be indisputable.
I have been unable to find any Pilot’s operating instructions.
I already have a wealth of information, sufficient to complete the book, but naturally I would like more if it should become available in time.
I myself flew in Rotodyne towards the end of the programme as a Flight Test Engineer, and in 2003 delivered the ‘Cierva’ Lecture on Rotodyne to the Royal Aeronautical Society in London.
I would like to acquire photographs of:
- The Dynamic model at Hayes.
- A good picture of ‘Light-up’.
- An airborne picture of flying with the tailplane removed, and the fuselage braced.
- A Picture of single engine run-on landing.
Photographs need to be of publishable quality (300dpi tif for digital copies) and copyright must be indisputable.
I have been unable to find any Pilot’s operating instructions.
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Ron Gellatly's logbooks
In the course of researching for my Rotodyne book I have been in touch with Ron's wife Barbera hoping to inspect his logbooks.
Ron loaned them to Derek Wood (Project Cancelled), who has since died.
Derek's extensive library was bequeathed to the Royal Aeronautical Society, but the logbooks do not appear to have been amongst the items passed over. They have dissappeared without trace!
If anyone has any idea of the whearabouts of what would be an invauable reference, please contact me.
Barbera would like to recover them and has agreed to allow them to be copied.
Ron loaned them to Derek Wood (Project Cancelled), who has since died.
Derek's extensive library was bequeathed to the Royal Aeronautical Society, but the logbooks do not appear to have been amongst the items passed over. They have dissappeared without trace!
If anyone has any idea of the whearabouts of what would be an invauable reference, please contact me.
Barbera would like to recover them and has agreed to allow them to be copied.
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FAIREY ROTODYNE 60th anniversary lecture, including archive film
FAIREY ROTODYNE 60th anniversary lecture, including archive film
Monday 27th November at Maidenhead Town Hall SL6 1RF at 7.45pm
Speaker David Gibbings, who worked on Rotodyne
Tickets £10 from Maidenhead Heritage Centre 01628 780555
Further information 6th November is the 60th anniversary of the maiden flight at White Waltham of the revolutionary Rotodyne, the world's first vertical takeoff airliner. This special anniversary lecture tells the story of Rotodyne from its conception through the flight test programme (including route proving to Paris and Brussels) to the disappointment of its cancellation in 1962. David Gibbings will also look at VTOL projects since the trail-blazing Rotodyne - which was definitely ahead of its time.
Monday 27th November at Maidenhead Town Hall SL6 1RF at 7.45pm
Speaker David Gibbings, who worked on Rotodyne
Tickets £10 from Maidenhead Heritage Centre 01628 780555
Further information 6th November is the 60th anniversary of the maiden flight at White Waltham of the revolutionary Rotodyne, the world's first vertical takeoff airliner. This special anniversary lecture tells the story of Rotodyne from its conception through the flight test programme (including route proving to Paris and Brussels) to the disappointment of its cancellation in 1962. David Gibbings will also look at VTOL projects since the trail-blazing Rotodyne - which was definitely ahead of its time.
The noise of the Rotodyne is often raised as the reason it was eventually cancelled.
Which is fundamentally false!
Yes, the original prototype was noisy when in helicopter mode with the tip jets operating, but the progress made by Fairey with regard to tip jet silencers was such that the only comments raised when it flew to Battersea Heliport came from people who were hoping to see it and hadn't heard it arriving!
The usual tale of British dithering over size and specification is the real reason why this promising high speed point-to-point airliner never made it into commercial service.
Which is fundamentally false!
Yes, the original prototype was noisy when in helicopter mode with the tip jets operating, but the progress made by Fairey with regard to tip jet silencers was such that the only comments raised when it flew to Battersea Heliport came from people who were hoping to see it and hadn't heard it arriving!
The usual tale of British dithering over size and specification is the real reason why this promising high speed point-to-point airliner never made it into commercial service.
Sadly, I never had the chance to see or hear the Rotodyne flying, but that's the first time I've ever heard the terms "tip jet" and "silencer" in the same sentence.
Slower than a DC-3 ....
promising high speed point-to-point airliner
Last edited by DaveReidUK; 2nd Nov 2017 at 12:46. Reason: spelling
As someone who's office overlooked an airfield apron where an Andover and a Comet (both of a similar vintage to the Rotodyne) used to conduct engine runs I can confidently say that most aero engines of that vintage WERE NOT QUIET. Apart from the fact that the Rotodyne was dropped by Westlands on the 'Not invented here' basis, the Rotodyne concept should not be constantly dismissed over an issue which the additional 55 years of technological development could be used to resolve.
Avoid imitations
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The payload to basic weight ratio of the Rotodyne was exceptional, even compared to modern rotary wing aircraft.
I'd have loved to have had a go flying it.
I'd have loved to have had a go flying it.
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The Rotodyne cruised at 180 kt and had a range of 450 miles - assume that a modern version could do better on range - but not on speed due to the rotor (which provided half the lift in autogyro mode)
So where could you use it? London - Paris you'd be up against the Eurostar and in th erest of Yurop the TGV and similar
Even if it was a lot quieter than the prototype it would still be noisy so you could never run it from a location close to housing - somewhere like Docklands would be OK but then you have to add in the ground transport time v. a city centre to city centre train - and you'd still have modern security checks as well
So where could you use it? London - Paris you'd be up against the Eurostar and in th erest of Yurop the TGV and similar
Even if it was a lot quieter than the prototype it would still be noisy so you could never run it from a location close to housing - somewhere like Docklands would be OK but then you have to add in the ground transport time v. a city centre to city centre train - and you'd still have modern security checks as well
HH wrote:
I wonder whether those will be required for the vanity project of HS2?
Rotodyne from Birmingham to London City - no need for that destructive train line...
...and you'd still have modern security checks as well
Rotodyne from Birmingham to London City - no need for that destructive train line...
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The Rotodyne cruised at 180 kt and had a range of 450 miles - assume that a modern version could do better on range - but not on speed due to the rotor (which provided half the lift in autogyro mode)
So where could you use it? London - Paris you'd be up against the Eurostar and in th erest of Yurop the TGV and similar
Even if it was a lot quieter than the prototype it would still be noisy so you could never run it from a location close to housing - somewhere like Docklands would be OK but then you have to add in the ground transport time v. a city centre to city centre train - and you'd still have modern security checks as well
So where could you use it? London - Paris you'd be up against the Eurostar and in th erest of Yurop the TGV and similar
Even if it was a lot quieter than the prototype it would still be noisy so you could never run it from a location close to housing - somewhere like Docklands would be OK but then you have to add in the ground transport time v. a city centre to city centre train - and you'd still have modern security checks as well
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I remember seeing the Rotodyne at Farnborough when I was a schoolboy. Lots of aircraft were noisy then (wasn't that the point? Vulcan was felt rather than heard), but it was strikingly loud for a civil transport.
In retrospect it seems like an interesting approach to relatively high speed with VTOL, and mechanically simpler than the V-22. But I don't think we can blame its failure on political or managerial failure, otherwise somebody else would have resurrected the idea in the subsequent 60+ years. It's just like the flying car: sounds nice, in practice doesn't work out. Rail is the obvious competitor, and rail wins--even with security checks.
A few years ago I travelled by the excellent Spanish high speed train system: there were security checks, but they were non-intrusive and non-annoying; and the train was more comfortable than any aircraft I've flown in.
In retrospect it seems like an interesting approach to relatively high speed with VTOL, and mechanically simpler than the V-22. But I don't think we can blame its failure on political or managerial failure, otherwise somebody else would have resurrected the idea in the subsequent 60+ years. It's just like the flying car: sounds nice, in practice doesn't work out. Rail is the obvious competitor, and rail wins--even with security checks.
A few years ago I travelled by the excellent Spanish high speed train system: there were security checks, but they were non-intrusive and non-annoying; and the train was more comfortable than any aircraft I've flown in.
If you look at the rotor propulsor system; basically you had four, narrow diameter, jet effluxes.
To provide enough energy to lift the beast bodily you required a very high jet efflux velocity to provide the overall mass flow out of the burners enough to give sufficient rotational thrust into the rotor system. These four,narrow diameter,extremely high velocity gas effluxes then had to dissipate their energy in to the ambient air. This velocity shear was what made the noise and,incidentally is why today's large diameter high by-pass jet engines are quieter, by flattening this gradient over a series of stages of progressively lessening efflux velocities.
In autorotational flight the Rotodyne was in the same order of noise magnitude as any other twin turboprop,however the translation to and from hovering flight (and its duration) was another matter entirely . The claimed "end in sight" for the tip jet noise problem was wishful thinking ,a few db possibly by exhaust noise attenuators, but the efflux velocity shear noise situation could not be realistically overcome.
Excuses made that this problem only affected a relatively small area close to the touchdown/lift off point would not have placated those powerful entities working in the City of London for example,I would suggest.
Now,perhaps,had you blown that efflux out along most of the outer trailing edge of the rotor instead ,taking notice of the Hunting H. 126 "Jet flap" concept ........
To provide enough energy to lift the beast bodily you required a very high jet efflux velocity to provide the overall mass flow out of the burners enough to give sufficient rotational thrust into the rotor system. These four,narrow diameter,extremely high velocity gas effluxes then had to dissipate their energy in to the ambient air. This velocity shear was what made the noise and,incidentally is why today's large diameter high by-pass jet engines are quieter, by flattening this gradient over a series of stages of progressively lessening efflux velocities.
In autorotational flight the Rotodyne was in the same order of noise magnitude as any other twin turboprop,however the translation to and from hovering flight (and its duration) was another matter entirely . The claimed "end in sight" for the tip jet noise problem was wishful thinking ,a few db possibly by exhaust noise attenuators, but the efflux velocity shear noise situation could not be realistically overcome.
Excuses made that this problem only affected a relatively small area close to the touchdown/lift off point would not have placated those powerful entities working in the City of London for example,I would suggest.
Now,perhaps,had you blown that efflux out along most of the outer trailing edge of the rotor instead ,taking notice of the Hunting H. 126 "Jet flap" concept ........
Last edited by Haraka; 3rd Nov 2017 at 09:55.
Haraka, a multi-nozzle system much as you suggest was under test at White Waltham before the project was cancelled.
For most of the demonstration flights, the tip jets were fitted with 7-lobe silencers, reducing the noise by some 7 db compared to the prototype.
The multi-nozzle system used 9 nozzles per blade with 'double H' silencers fitted to each. Test results showed that a reduction of at least 16 db could have been expected.
For most of the demonstration flights, the tip jets were fitted with 7-lobe silencers, reducing the noise by some 7 db compared to the prototype.
The multi-nozzle system used 9 nozzles per blade with 'double H' silencers fitted to each. Test results showed that a reduction of at least 16 db could have been expected.
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"I wonder whether those will be required for the vanity project of HS2?"
trains are seen as different - as discussed elsewhere on PPrune- it's hard to hijack a train and crash it into a large office building for example
trains are seen as different - as discussed elsewhere on PPrune- it's hard to hijack a train and crash it into a large office building for example