Cessna L-19A in RAF Service?
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Cessna L-19A in RAF Service?
During some research which involved delving through some old Flight Magazine Archives I came across the above photograph.
The photograph was published in the Flight Magazine on the 12/12/1952. The caption to the photograph states "The aircraft is an American Cessna L-19A, but it bears British markings, it is flown by an Army pilot-Sgt J Hutchins D.F.M. of the Glider Pilot Regiment -and is carrying the First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Roderick MsGregor GCB,DSO. As might be surmised from the presence of a US Army de Havilland Beaver in the background the picture was taken in Korea during the First Sea Lord's Far East tour"
I have been unable to confim the statement that the aircraft was in RAF Markings. Can anyone confirm that this aircraft was operated under RAF Markings?
Mel,
It looks like it's 51-4754.
See page 80 of Cessna Warbirds: A Detailed & Personal History of Cessna's Involvement in the Armed Forces by Walt Shiel, Gregory W. Bayer, Frank Hamilton, Kim Shields.
Google ("l-19" raf korea). The whole book is online.
Adjacent to the text is a US Army Aviation Museum photo of 51-4754 with roundels, captioned
It looks like it's 51-4754.
See page 80 of Cessna Warbirds: A Detailed & Personal History of Cessna's Involvement in the Armed Forces by Walt Shiel, Gregory W. Bayer, Frank Hamilton, Kim Shields.
Google ("l-19" raf korea). The whole book is online.
By October 1954, Cessna deliveries of L-19s totaled 2,504 aircraft. Five aircraft were destined for service in the South Korean air force under the Military Assistance program and one (L-19-ACE, s/n 51-4754) was obtained by the British Army from the Canadian Army.
A Canadian L-19A-CE flown by the British RAF (sic) out of Seoul, South Korea in 1952
Last edited by India Four Two; 17th Nov 2007 at 14:53.
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Cessna L-19A in RAF Service?
India Four Two. Many thanks for that. Please check PMs.
On www.korean-way.com it was reported "The Bird Dog proved so popular with some British pilots that the RAF No.1913 Light Liaison Flight acquired one through unofficial channels to supplement its Auster AOP 6s." this must have been 51-4754.
How things have changed! "Borrowing" an aircraft today is just unthinkable, certainly one for which there would be no UK manuals or oils lubricants etc. In those days Army aircraft were treated like one would treat a landrover today. Check oil levels, tyres etc and get in start it up and go
.
Mel
On www.korean-way.com it was reported "The Bird Dog proved so popular with some British pilots that the RAF No.1913 Light Liaison Flight acquired one through unofficial channels to supplement its Auster AOP 6s." this must have been 51-4754.
How things have changed! "Borrowing" an aircraft today is just unthinkable, certainly one for which there would be no UK manuals or oils lubricants etc. In those days Army aircraft were treated like one would treat a landrover today. Check oil levels, tyres etc and get in start it up and go
.Mel
Last edited by MReyn24050; 17th Nov 2007 at 17:25.
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Cessna L-19A in RAF Service.
During further research on this topic I found that mention of this aircraft is made in General Sir Anthony Farrar-Hockley's book "The Army in the Air" published by Alan Sutton Publishing the General writes:-
"The light liaison pilots of 1913 Light Liaison Flight - officers, warrant officers and sergeants still wearing their Glider Pilot Regimental badges - reconnoitred, dropping leaflets and partnered the AOP in air photography. They carried commanders and staff as much along the line as in taxi work behind it, though the carriage of large passengers in the Auster 6s was never comfortable. Captain Peter Downward, the first flight commander, was grateful for the loan of a relatively spacious American L-19 Bird Dog to ease the discomforts of his tall divisional commander of the 1st British Commonwealth Division ."
"The light liaison pilots of 1913 Light Liaison Flight - officers, warrant officers and sergeants still wearing their Glider Pilot Regimental badges - reconnoitred, dropping leaflets and partnered the AOP in air photography. They carried commanders and staff as much along the line as in taxi work behind it, though the carriage of large passengers in the Auster 6s was never comfortable. Captain Peter Downward, the first flight commander, was grateful for the loan of a relatively spacious American L-19 Bird Dog to ease the discomforts of his tall divisional commander of the 1st British Commonwealth Division ."
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L-19A
G'day
Cessna L-19A s/n 51-4754 was indeed loaned to the Royal Air Force's No. 1913 Light Liaison Flight during the Korean War. It was used as a VIP transport. Althought the aircraft was not assigned a dedicated R.A.F. serial number, it was nevetheless recorded on strength with the unit as s/n 14754.
I fail to make any Canadian connection with this particular aircraft. The Canadian Army did no recieve their first L-19A's until the 8th of October 1954. The only Canadian aircraft to operate in and out of Korea on a regular basis, were the Canadair North Stars of the R.C.A.F.'s No. 426 'Thunderbird' (T) Squadron. Their Korean Airlift contribution, known as 'Operation Hawk' was carried out from June 1950 to June 1954.
Cheers...Chris
Cessna L-19A s/n 51-4754 was indeed loaned to the Royal Air Force's No. 1913 Light Liaison Flight during the Korean War. It was used as a VIP transport. Althought the aircraft was not assigned a dedicated R.A.F. serial number, it was nevetheless recorded on strength with the unit as s/n 14754.
I fail to make any Canadian connection with this particular aircraft. The Canadian Army did no recieve their first L-19A's until the 8th of October 1954. The only Canadian aircraft to operate in and out of Korea on a regular basis, were the Canadair North Stars of the R.C.A.F.'s No. 426 'Thunderbird' (T) Squadron. Their Korean Airlift contribution, known as 'Operation Hawk' was carried out from June 1950 to June 1954.
Cheers...Chris
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L19A/RAF
This is somewhat belated, but I have only just spotted the post re the L19A in RAF service. I confirm that the 'Bird Dog' 14754 was in service with 1913 Light Liaison Flight RAF in S.Korea during 1954/5 and I (as LAC/SAC C. Blake) had the dubious pleasure of the daily routine engine servicing of the aircraft and some Auster 6s & a 7. I also had the great pleasure of being a passenger in all those aircraft at various times, Gosh, this brings back memories!
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I remember being told by Captain Tom Ogden in Aden circa 1965 that as a Sergeant pilot in the GPR he flew them in Korea and much preferred them to the Auster 6. He did mention the possibility of a built-in groundloop though.
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I guess in http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...ml#post3710016 you mean The Korean War 
and F-GDPF painted in the old cs
Photos: Cessna O-1E Bird Dog (305C/L-19E) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
and F-GDPF painted in the old cs
Photos: Cessna O-1E Bird Dog (305C/L-19E) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Last edited by wieesso; 22nd Dec 2011 at 08:17.
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Bird dog with RAF roundels
Hi
Yes i can confirm this aircraft was with 1913 Liason Flight RAF in Korea in the 1950's.I served with this unit.Pilots were mainly GPR (glider pilot reg) Tom Ogston Ken Mattocks Bob Ellison Red Meaton Trevor Davies to name some of them .
Tex Hillier (REME)
Yes i can confirm this aircraft was with 1913 Liason Flight RAF in Korea in the 1950's.I served with this unit.Pilots were mainly GPR (glider pilot reg) Tom Ogston Ken Mattocks Bob Ellison Red Meaton Trevor Davies to name some of them .
Tex Hillier (REME)
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good memorys also
Hi ,Nice to see your name again i am Tex Hillier REME vm often think of the guys out there Tom, Bob,Trevor,Ken ,Also our worst pilot Captain Swinburne -Lister.Then popular Capt, S.M.Hickey.
Do you know of any others still around.
Regards Tex.
Do you know of any others still around.
Regards Tex.
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GOOD MEMORYS ALSO
Hi Tex, saw your message 05/02/15 but I don't recognise the name. I'm Charlie Blake (ex-SAC RAF) and I was at 1913 LL Flight at A10/Fort George airstrip 1954-55 and used to look after the engines of the L19A and the GPR Austers. I recognise a few of the names you listed and I have a number of photos of my time out there but cannot post them here!
Charlie,
I've sent you a Personal Message concerning photos.
I42
I've sent you a Personal Message concerning photos.
I42
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good memorys also
Hi Charlie,
Was at A10 Then Syn Sani then back to A10 .Were you there when Capt Hickey was CO?.Also another name that comes to mind is L/cpl Demicoli the Italian from Brum.I was a full corp REME vehicle mech Another pilot that comes to mind was Capt Bedford -Davies,also an Irish RAF sergeant who's name i cannot recall.
Regards Tex
Was at A10 Then Syn Sani then back to A10 .Were you there when Capt Hickey was CO?.Also another name that comes to mind is L/cpl Demicoli the Italian from Brum.I was a full corp REME vehicle mech Another pilot that comes to mind was Capt Bedford -Davies,also an Irish RAF sergeant who's name i cannot recall.
Regards Tex
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good memories also
Hi Tex. I'm sorry I don't remember you. Yes, Cat. Hickey was my original CO and if my memory serves me right, he sported a huge set of whiskers! I also recall the name Capt. Bedford-Davies and remember the Irish RAF sergeant airframe fitter, but can't remember his name - he was the senior RAF man on the flight and left quite soon after I arrived. L/Cpl Demicoli sounds familiar and I think I have a photo of him and others Christmas partying at A16 strip, where we were temporarily transferred to while A10 airstrip and accommodation was upgraded and a 'control tower' was installed.
I am forwarding some photos to "I42" by email as I can't post them on here, I hope that he can post them on here, if not I will send you a PM for your email address.
Regards, Charlie.
I am forwarding some photos to "I42" by email as I can't post them on here, I hope that he can post them on here, if not I will send you a PM for your email address.
Regards, Charlie.
Charlie's photos
"Self servicing Auster VF547 at A10"
Who is that handsome young man?
"Auster VF516 in for engine servicing at A10"
In Charlie's email to me, he expressed concern about if this was the right place for reminiscences. I assured him his concerns were misplaced.
Let's have some more photos and history, Charlie.
Last edited by India Four Two; 9th Feb 2015 at 21:20.
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all these years after the event
Hi Charlie,
Well we were obviously at 1913 at same time. RAF Sgt Mc Candless,was the airframe guy can you remember when he was going to shoot Capt Swinburne-Lister that was at A10.
I remember the Xmas do at A16 with a hangover from Hell .I Ran the bar at a later date My proper name is Rowland or Rowley Hillier .I was nicknamed Tex by Bob Ellison the discipline staff sgt.Were you at A10 when the AOP flight was at other end of runway ?. My Mail for contact is [email protected] so mail me if you wish.I was looking on net for no particular reason a few weeks back and found that WE600 one of our Asters in now in a museum panted in Antarctic Survey flight colours in East Anglia.
Lots of the names are beginning to come to mind.
Will stop rambling for now .
Best regards
Tex
Well we were obviously at 1913 at same time. RAF Sgt Mc Candless,was the airframe guy can you remember when he was going to shoot Capt Swinburne-Lister that was at A10.
I remember the Xmas do at A16 with a hangover from Hell .I Ran the bar at a later date My proper name is Rowland or Rowley Hillier .I was nicknamed Tex by Bob Ellison the discipline staff sgt.Were you at A10 when the AOP flight was at other end of runway ?. My Mail for contact is [email protected] so mail me if you wish.I was looking on net for no particular reason a few weeks back and found that WE600 one of our Asters in now in a museum panted in Antarctic Survey flight colours in East Anglia.
Lots of the names are beginning to come to mind.
Will stop rambling for now .
Best regards
Tex
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Hi Tex, I got it wrong, it wasn't Capt Hickey I had in mind, it was Capt Irwin - huge moustache, that would be about March 1954.
You are right about Sgt McCandless, his name came to me during the night
Regards, Charlie.
You are right about Sgt McCandless, his name came to me during the night
Regards, Charlie.
Last edited by M0AIJ; 10th Feb 2015 at 12:08. Reason: Sentance missed out
Charlie's Photos II
A10 Fort George airstrip, Pintail Bridge, Imjin River
Farewell parade for Major General Horatius Murray, GOC 1st Commonwealth Division, November 1954.
Last edited by India Four Two; 10th Feb 2015 at 22:43.