Vulcan XH 558 Threads (merged)
Here is a 'what if' scenario............
So, on the last day when the £1M is needed, what happens if the figure is only, let's say for argument sake, £750,000. Two questions arise. Is this the end of the Vulcan? and if so, what happens to that £750,000, does it get returned to those who have donated?
So, on the last day when the £1M is needed, what happens if the figure is only, let's say for argument sake, £750,000. Two questions arise. Is this the end of the Vulcan? and if so, what happens to that £750,000, does it get returned to those who have donated?
What a shame it has come to this at this stage in the economic cycle. With the benefit of hindsight, 558 might have been better going to the US several years ago when there was serious money around for projects like this. If it falls apart now, 558 will be grounded forever. Alternatively, would it not be possible to turn the hangar into a refuge for foreign terrorists or suchlike to attract additional National Lottery funding?
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So, on the last day when the £1M is needed, what happens if the figure is only, let's say for argument sake, £750,000. Two questions arise. Is this the end of the Vulcan? and if so, what happens to that £750,000, does it get returned to those who have donated?
That's the nature of the pledge scheme. The money isn't called upon unless the target is reached.
A very dicy game to give your engineers a months notice if your playing games.......... without them the 558 isn't going anywhere even if they reach the £1M target by Friday,
I dont expect anyone to believe me, but this is not a case of crying wolf, & I know for a fact it wasn't in 2006..............
I dont expect anyone to believe me, but this is not a case of crying wolf, & I know for a fact it wasn't in 2006..............
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deltapapa
As you rightly say, it is a very dangerous game to play with the engineers, and I wonder what would happen if the engineers said 'oh to hell with this, I'm not coming back just to go through this again next year? And, as you point out, these last minute 'problems' first arose in 2006, and have continued ever since!
The reason for the first couple were 'unforseen' problems with the aircraft - corrosion, equipment costs etc (but I think the vast majority of ex Vulcan people would have expected corrosion, but apparantly not TVOC!) The next panic was again, unforseen expenses, and now we have this panic.
Now one could have been regarded as unfortunate. Two might even be considered naiive or maybe a little careless. But three?? Some people might suggest that it's incompetance on the part of those in charge of the project, wouldn't you agree?
Either way, it is a sad and sorry state of affairs, and Plemings reluctance to respond on public forums to their concerns will sadly cost the project a great deal of money from supporters who, like myself, who won't give another penny until we have clear proof and evidence that measures are being put into place to safeguard 'our' money!
Despite what sm and others are saying, we the public can see no evidence of changes at all. Can you? Maybe you could point them out to us please?
As you rightly say, it is a very dangerous game to play with the engineers, and I wonder what would happen if the engineers said 'oh to hell with this, I'm not coming back just to go through this again next year? And, as you point out, these last minute 'problems' first arose in 2006, and have continued ever since!
The reason for the first couple were 'unforseen' problems with the aircraft - corrosion, equipment costs etc (but I think the vast majority of ex Vulcan people would have expected corrosion, but apparantly not TVOC!) The next panic was again, unforseen expenses, and now we have this panic.
Now one could have been regarded as unfortunate. Two might even be considered naiive or maybe a little careless. But three?? Some people might suggest that it's incompetance on the part of those in charge of the project, wouldn't you agree?
Either way, it is a sad and sorry state of affairs, and Plemings reluctance to respond on public forums to their concerns will sadly cost the project a great deal of money from supporters who, like myself, who won't give another penny until we have clear proof and evidence that measures are being put into place to safeguard 'our' money!
Despite what sm and others are saying, we the public can see no evidence of changes at all. Can you? Maybe you could point them out to us please?
Cunning Artificer
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Corrosion was unforseen? Costs for restoring obsolete equipment were unexpected? I suppose they didn't forsee how small their piece of a small air display income pie might be either?
Back in the 1950s a good air display could attract an audience of more than 200,000. The Mk 1 Vulcan, along with the Valiant and the Victor prototype, displayed to more than a million people on "Battle of Britain Day" in 1957. Even a small RAF open day at a remote station like Dishforth could attract nearly 20,000 people. Those halcyon days of aviation are long gone...
Back in the 1950s a good air display could attract an audience of more than 200,000. The Mk 1 Vulcan, along with the Valiant and the Victor prototype, displayed to more than a million people on "Battle of Britain Day" in 1957. Even a small RAF open day at a remote station like Dishforth could attract nearly 20,000 people. Those halcyon days of aviation are long gone...
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Airsound kindly offered to arrange for me to have a briefing session with VTST if I was so inclined and I suggested I would only do so if any questions and answers were in the public domain. I'm not looking to obtain any information or access that anyone else can't enjoy.
I think in their current predicament they have better things to do than chat with me and so pending the next "deadline" I'll hang back from going to see them. If of course they pull through I email them ask any questions I can think of and any that anyone else wants asking and post any response, or confirm lack thereof, here and verbatim unless anyone thinks there is a better way. I don't want to be briefed I think everyone just wants some answers and see proof of the changes many are talking about.
Sadly VTST isn't covered by the Freedom of Information Act although HLF are. So in that vein I have sent off another FOI request to HLF which I'll share with anyone if and when I get any response.
Airsound, I appreciate your offer of facilitation, hopefully some answers will be forthcoming which will satisfy the masses.
I think in their current predicament they have better things to do than chat with me and so pending the next "deadline" I'll hang back from going to see them. If of course they pull through I email them ask any questions I can think of and any that anyone else wants asking and post any response, or confirm lack thereof, here and verbatim unless anyone thinks there is a better way. I don't want to be briefed I think everyone just wants some answers and see proof of the changes many are talking about.
Sadly VTST isn't covered by the Freedom of Information Act although HLF are. So in that vein I have sent off another FOI request to HLF which I'll share with anyone if and when I get any response.
Airsound, I appreciate your offer of facilitation, hopefully some answers will be forthcoming which will satisfy the masses.
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With, apparently, three days to go it seems that the constant need to voice opinions about that which has had nothing but the same rhetoric for the past few weeks, and more so, these past few days. I would suggest you forget it.
Nothing is going to happen unless the fat lady sings and as I see it she needs litres and litres of gargle before that happens.
The good or bad news will happen this week.
PPP
Nothing is going to happen unless the fat lady sings and as I see it she needs litres and litres of gargle before that happens.
The good or bad news will happen this week.
PPP
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Winco - I'm more than a little confused as to what actual answer you're looking for! 
you keep asking "what has changed?" and i, and others KEEP telling you! your response of "other than what the likes of sm tells us..." - well you asked, and i told you! so have several others! if that isn't good enough then i apologise.
ok - if you want 'public proof' then fine, but what do you mean? in my book, there is only ONE publicly-visible proof - a flying Vulcan!
all the other changes that i and others have detailed here (a public forum!
) are of internal changes within VTS - do you want a webcam and audio link to ALL happenings at Brunty? perhaps tap Dr. Pleming's telephone? why not hide under his desk to get the 'proper' answers that I'm clearly unable to provide!
many internal goings-on have occurred in the recent months, i know about them and consider it appropriate to share them with all - is that not public?
as far as PR/media issues are concerned - well the Mail on Sunday had a FOUR-PAGE spread on 558 and her plight. ITN News are covering it all of today, some other publicity things are planned for this Wednesday, which we are hoping will give yet more coverage.
it is very simple Winco - you want proof? get on board, help all of us save 558 and then simply sit back, enjoy, savour and marvel at the uniqueness that is a flying Avro Vulcan B Mk2 bomber!
that's your proof Sir!
sm
you keep asking "what has changed?" and i, and others KEEP telling you! your response of "other than what the likes of sm tells us..." - well you asked, and i told you! so have several others! if that isn't good enough then i apologise.
ok - if you want 'public proof' then fine, but what do you mean? in my book, there is only ONE publicly-visible proof - a flying Vulcan!
all the other changes that i and others have detailed here (a public forum!
) are of internal changes within VTS - do you want a webcam and audio link to ALL happenings at Brunty? perhaps tap Dr. Pleming's telephone? why not hide under his desk to get the 'proper' answers that I'm clearly unable to provide!many internal goings-on have occurred in the recent months, i know about them and consider it appropriate to share them with all - is that not public?
as far as PR/media issues are concerned - well the Mail on Sunday had a FOUR-PAGE spread on 558 and her plight. ITN News are covering it all of today, some other publicity things are planned for this Wednesday, which we are hoping will give yet more coverage.
it is very simple Winco - you want proof? get on board, help all of us save 558 and then simply sit back, enjoy, savour and marvel at the uniqueness that is a flying Avro Vulcan B Mk2 bomber!
that's your proof Sir!
sm
Itn 6:30 This Evening
Just a quicky - anyone who saw the ITN lunchtime news will know that they tried to go for a live report from Brunters, and their comms failed after a couple of wrongly framed shots and no audio. The studio anchors didn't have enough background info to give any more detail, so, apart from the fact that any mention is good, it wasn't a lot of use.
Note for The Winco. This was not, in any way, VTST's fault. OK?
But, what it does mean is that they're trying again for the ITN 6:30 news this evening.
Fingers crossed
airsound
Note for The Winco. This was not, in any way, VTST's fault. OK?
But, what it does mean is that they're trying again for the ITN 6:30 news this evening.
Fingers crossed
airsound
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yes - other than ITV's wiggly amp problem at lunchtime, the coverage at both 1830 and 2200 was fault-free. 
the pledge figure has been going up at about £5,000 per hour - now at £607,942 - that's an increase of over £75,000 today alone.
only two issues with ITV's coverage today (other than spelling Andrew Edmondson's name incorrectly)
more emails to go out tonight, more calls to make tomorrow and Wednesday - and apparently a pile of pledges still to be 'input' at Brunty, as they've been absolutely swamped!
all good stuff!
sm
edit: gone up to £609,537 in the time it took to type this post!
the pledge figure has been going up at about £5,000 per hour - now at £607,942 - that's an increase of over £75,000 today alone.
only two issues with ITV's coverage today (other than spelling Andrew Edmondson's name incorrectly)
- saying we need £1m - no we don't, we need PLEDGES to the value of £1m
- no mention of the pivotal Education Programme which the whole project is all about!
more emails to go out tonight, more calls to make tomorrow and Wednesday - and apparently a pile of pledges still to be 'input' at Brunty, as they've been absolutely swamped!
all good stuff!
sm
edit: gone up to £609,537 in the time it took to type this post!
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Special Micro site: Donate to Save the Vulcan Bomber | Vulcan to the Sky Trust
They might just do it - again!
They might just do it - again!
try this link............
Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan To The Sky Trust
Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan To The Sky Trust
