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Vulcan XH 558 Threads (merged)

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Vulcan XH 558 Threads (merged)

Old 24th Feb 2009, 00:28
  #2321 (permalink)  
 
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There are only 12 days left to save the last and ONLY fully serviceable and airworthy Vulcan B2.

We need all hands to the pump.. your pledges can make the difference between seeing her display again or permanently grounded. This is NO cry wolf situation !!

Get pledging to save her please
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Old 24th Feb 2009, 12:17
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Hi...new here so be gentle....I've been viewing this topic for a few weeks and thought I might join in as a supporter of XH558. One thing I'd like to point out is that the pledge scheme is just that....a pledge....so no need to donate now as the money won't be called in unless the target is reached.
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Old 25th Feb 2009, 11:08
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I hope she flies and I hope it all works out but until their is either "regime change" or total open, honest and frank insight AND a sustainable plan then I am afraid I won't donate another penny. Same arguments every year, nothing has changed.
My sentiments 100%
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Old 27th Feb 2009, 15:24
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Saracenman, Bubble, airsound

It has been a while since you last contributed and I was wondering if you could give us the latest on the project please?

You all claim to have seen evidence of change at Brunters, and yet despite your claims, there still remains nothing whatsoever from Dr P or TVOC other than his latest plea on TVOC website. Is this one of 'changes' you were refering too??

Perhaps, with your inside information, you could advise the general public of the projects position?? Clearly Pleming isn't going to tell us and I doubt if he has any intention of telling us frankly, so I suspect it will be left up to the likes of you people to enlighten us.

Sad to see that these 'changes' don't involve informing Joe Public!
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Old 27th Feb 2009, 16:04
  #2325 (permalink)  
 
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One Week left to SAVE XH558

Dear All,

As of today Friday 27th February at 4pm, the Pledge fund to save XH558 for this season stands at £444,000

This is still some £450,000 short of a figure we need in order for financial forecasts to balance and for work to begin on preparation for a complete Airshow season in 2009. The trust that owns her could close by Friday 6th March. Only the Pledge campaign can save her now.

The Vulcan to the Sky Club have been very succesful in raising the profile of the campaign, with levels of contributions rising rapidly in the last few days. The recent 24 hour Vulcan Scramble around all 15 Vulcan airframes in the U.K. resulted in over £56,000 being added to the fund in a single day!

With just 7 days to go, you can play your part in securing this NATIONAL HERITAGE ASSET. We ask you to consider a Pledge of money to be called up only if we reach a level of funding that enables us to realise our aims.

More details are available here: www.vulcantothesky.com
or call 0116 247 8145

Whatever you can afford, be it a few pounds or even a few more pounds spread over 12 months by standing order - will be much appreciated and could just possibly save this ICONIC British aircraft for the Nation.

Newsletters will be arriving shortly to over 30,000 of our Members and Friends to advise just how close the project is to collapse and to explain the Pledge Fund.

With your help in sufficient numbers, the collapse of this project need not happen. Please consider if you can help us further in any way.

With many thanks,
The Vulcan To The Sky Club
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Old 27th Feb 2009, 19:54
  #2326 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Winco

First post from a lurker here.

I have to agree with Saracenman & Co there has been a definate change in things.

I think of late Robert has said pretty much all he can to Joe Public. Perhaps the difficulty is as much as anything getting the message to the public. The feedback from those ringing club members currently is that alot of them, a fairly high percentage are not even aware of the current state of affairs. A huge amount of effort is going into putting that right. A double page article in the Sunday Mail should help.

The pledges are coming in...but still along way to go, so please even those who are yet to be convinced...think about whether you really want to see 558 grounded...and maybe bite the bullet and pledge, is it just possible once 558 is back in the air, that might be a better time to seek answers?

Just a thought...
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Old 27th Feb 2009, 21:29
  #2327 (permalink)  
 
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Question for Moderators.....

I have questioned a colleague why no posts here from the XH558 Press Office recently.

Moderators:
I have been told the last few posts have never appeared here as has another one sent across at approx 6pm tonight from the Supporters Club.

Do I take it PPRuNe are restricting such posts for any particular reason?

If so, I think an explanation is required to the community here who are obviously awaiting news.

Many thanks,
FS
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Old 27th Feb 2009, 23:27
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Winco - apologies that I've been a little quiet, but I've been snowed under with various Vulcan-orientated tasks

current 'status' is little different than before - the March 6th deadline for £1m pledge total still stands, but we have increased the figure SUBSTANTIALLY since the last time i posted here - largely due to The Scramble on Sunday last (well done chaps! )

on top of that, i personally have been dealing with Flying Signman on a daily basis to 'square up' various plans/schemes etc. these include an internet banner campaign on a VERY busy website, used specifically by those to whom an Avro Vulcan means a great deal. sorry i can't tell you which website - it's not 'secret squirrel' at all, just that i don't want you all rushing off to look - it'll only 'waste' our banners!

this is what it looks like - don't bother clicking on it, it's only here to show you! thanks to our 'tame' graphic designer for his speedy and excellent work!



the feedback so far is very positive.

another scheme currently in full swing is our telephone campaign - calling ALL our member/friends database to inform them of the situation and garner their pledges. I've personally made over 60 calls last night and tonight, with pledges totalling nearly £1,000. there are several doing likewise.

other schemes are also in full swing over the next few days, that will give us maximum publicity; i know that Flying Signman is doing an inordinate amount with this at the moment - as I've said before, he is THE most effective Committee member we have.

as for the continued 'changes' - a notable example is what Flying Signman has achieved with the changes to the www.vulcantothesky.org homepage; a long running 'issue' that many of us have been for literally MONTHS!

I've also been involved in that in the tiniest way, but i CAN tell you that, at long last, VTST are finally listening to us - we've come up with the ideas and they've been acted upon within three hours!!!! now THAT never happened in the past!

as ever, i can't speak for Dr. Pleming or his communications with the 'outside world', but that is of little consequence at present as WE are going at it hammer and tongs! the message IS getting out there and that's the important thing, irrespective of who it is that's doing it!

i personally have a couple of outstanding issues with Dr. Pleming which i will chase up in due course - aka not letting him get away with it!

THE focus still remains March 6th - let's get that secured first before we embark on other matters.

i still remain IMMENSELY impressed with Michael Trotter - like Flying Signman, he is one person who actually GETS STUFF DONE! both are real assets to VTS and 558.

the good result might well be another eleventh-hour nail-biter, but it IS going in the right direction and IS possible - none of us are giving up yet!

Winco, i hope that answers your query

sm

Last edited by saracenman; 28th Feb 2009 at 01:06. Reason: stoopidity
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Old 27th Feb 2009, 23:42
  #2329 (permalink)  
 
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Winco

Not much to add myself other than i have been doing my bit as it were

One example i can give of the change is thus, i met a chap at Conningsby yesterday who had a not exactly brilliant experience on a visit to Brunty, i took his number and posted his account of the visit on the VTTS forum and asked if it could be looked into, less than 24 hours after i spoke with this fellow somebody had had phoned him and spoken to him. Though I'm not privy to what was said i do know that bridges were built and the fellow in question would like to get involved and help us out.

Last edited by bubblesuk; 27th Feb 2009 at 23:45. Reason: cos i is fick and can't spell
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 06:13
  #2330 (permalink)  
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There is a post from the 'Press Office' now. I am unaware of any others and we no restrictions on such posts.

PPP
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 06:50
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Thank you all for your replies, and congratulations to all those working so hard to secure the money, well done.

Without wishing to harp on though, the thing I find astonishing is that PPrune and the key publishing site, are both visited by tens of thousands of members of the public as well as the press and goodness knows who else. Why have they both been ignored by the good Dr P? is the guy simply not man enough to come here, or is he above that sort of thing?

Maybe the good Dr airsound could enlighten us as to why Pleming continues this attitude of ignoring people at such a critical time in the projects life?
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 09:34
  #2332 (permalink)  
 
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Can you help XH558?

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Old 28th Feb 2009, 14:47
  #2333 (permalink)  
 
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Winco - my reply will be something of a double-edged sword, i know but...

i agree with you in a sense, but in another i completely disagree.

i think it perfectly acceptable and quite correct that no 'official' response is EVER given here, or other similar fora - quite simply, it would set a precedent; once you are prepared to answer one question, you are compelled to answer ALL.

whilst not wishing to sound at all condescending to ANY PPruNers, there are often some very daft questions and issues raised on here which really don't warrant an answer! i appreciate that there are those who are privy to some information and those that aren't, but all too often an issue is raised on here (and elsewhere) that has been well documented before, is already publicly known, or has been answered many many times before.

examples are, "why can't the HLF give more money?" - "why can't VTS charge for cockpit tours?" - "why can't 558 be repainted in Red Bull colours?" and such like. certainly some of these ARE valid questions, but i personally would not like to see MY money being spent on the salary of someone paid to trawl through websites, answering such repeated questions on a daily basis!

of course that's all well and good if you DO answer questions/issues in the proper place! this is where i DO agree with you Winco.

VTS has its own website, with a forum that is itself a mine of information. what VTS management have consistently failed to appreciate is that their website (particularly the homepage) has been woefully under-utilised.

considering that First Flight back in October 2007 was THE ONE SINGLE day that we'd all been working toward for over fifteen years, it was absolutely UNFORGIVABLE that the homepage remained completely unchanged for seven weeks!!!

very many of us begged and pleaded with VTS to have regular weekly updates on the homepage - i even offered to do the editorial myself, but was declined! i recall even speaking to Rusty at the time - she couldn't understand why so many people on Prune and elsewhere were moaning about this that and the other - why weren't they happy that 558 was flying again??!!??

i tried pointing out to her that, if VTS regularly updated people, on their own website, then people would have nothing to moan about!! she just couldn't see it I'm afraid.

I've also been told by several people that Dr. Pleming "doesn't do the internet" - well that's his prerogative of course, but when you're a CEO of a £7m organisation, you should realise your own limitations; if you don't understand a certain facet of a commercial operation, then employ someone who does!

luckily though, since Rusty's departure, Michael Trotter completely and utterly 'gets it' - he certainly does understand every concept and issue that we have ALL been banging on and on and on about for a very very VERY long time - THANK GOD!

I'm sure it doesn't take Einstein to figure out that this is the biggest and most important of all the changes that have occurred recently, and that i have been asked to detail on here. it might only be one solitary change, but the fact that VTS never used to 'get it' and now they do, is all-encompassing!

this was proved (as always) to me the other evening - i identified an important issue missing from the website homepage, discussed it briefly with Flying Signman, and emailed Michael Trotter about it straight away. within the hour i had a reply, "Point taken, i have circulated your email and it will be amended by first thing tomorrow morning."

it was!

in conclusion Winco, this 'communications' issue is one that Flying Signman and i have been discussing recently; other than Club newsletters and the website, how else can VTS give regular and topical information to 558's followers? with the exception of the website issue that I've just described, i can't really 'blame' VTS - what other communication channels are available to them?

there are many without internet access (an issue appreciated whilst speaking to many supporters with our current telephone campaign) - just how can we keep them regularly informed? this doesn't only apply to the bad tidings, but also the good - like airshow schedules etc.

i can assure you Winco that this is being discussed as i type - there are some good ideas which need further investigation. yes, it should have been discussed and put in place a long long time ago - but it wasn't.

i cannot stress enough that these changes HAVE taken effect already - and thank god they have!

sm
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 16:45
  #2334 (permalink)  
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being a detractor and all that, despite having given over my cash to the project repeatedly.

I assume the "imminent" accounts for the year ending July 2008 have not yet been published.

i still would love to know how they managed to spend the £2.2 million that was sat in the VTST bank at the end of July 2007.

i don't expect an answer, just to be told to forget all that and save the Vulcan.

well done to the volunteers for raising 56K in a day.

regards

Geoff
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Old 1st Mar 2009, 17:09
  #2335 (permalink)  

 
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Saracenman - many thanks for your answers to The Winco. I had been hesitating to come on the thread again, because he always seems to want to personalise everything, and it’s getting a bit wearing. Also, like you, I’ve been very busy, both with Vulcan stuff and with my day job.

Another problem I have with replying to anything The Winco says is that he doesn’t seem to pay any attention. I have tried in two separate posts (#2264 on 16 Feb, #2268 on 17 Feb) to explain that, after the scurrilous treatment Robert Pleming has received at the hands of a few anonymous PPRuNe contributors, he is unlikely to come onto this thread and explain anything. But apparently I have completely failed to communicate that to The Winco. So I’m grateful for your explanations of where information is being given.

I would disagree with you on one small point, though. You say
I've also been told by several people that Dr. Pleming "doesn't do the internet" - well that's his prerogative of course, but when you're a CEO of a £7m organisation, you should realise your own limitations; if you don't understand a certain facet of a commercial operation, then employ someone who does!
Dr P‘s last job before VTS was as the European CEO of the computer giant Cisco Systems. He probably understands more about computers in general and the internet in particular than many of us put together. It’s not that he doesn’t do the internet - it’s mostly that he doesn’t have time to spend hours trawling through sites and looking for questions to answer - and I know you (saracenman) have implied as much.

I can vouch for how hard he (and many other people, of course) are working at the moment. As a very small example, I received two Vulcan-orientated messages from him between 10 and 11 o’clock on Saturday evening.

I do find it bit rich that The Winco continues to complain that he’s not getting the information from Robert Pleming that he clearly feels he deserves. I offered to send Dr P’s 11 Feb press briefing to anyone that wanted it. Several people did, but not The Winco. Then I offered to get him a personal meeting with the VTS Business Development Manager (Michael Trotter). He declined that too. How does that work, Winco?

On a rather more practical note, I wonder how many PPRuNers have seen the Mail on Sunday today.
Just 5 days to save the Vulcan: Desperate race to raise £1⁄2m or historic British bomber will be grounded for ever | Mail Online

The full version is online, but the print version has the picture of the XH558 cockpit as a centre-page double spread, as well as a sympathetic article on pages 32 and 33.

Lest anyone should think these things just happen at the appropriate time - they don’t. Any media coverage only comes about after a lot of time-consuming (and often frustratingly fruitless) work. I’m not claiming any credit for the Mail on Sunday stuff, btw, but I do know how much effort is being made, in all sorts of not-necessarily-obvious ways, by all sorts of people. The nature of that sort of work does mean that, unless it actually blossoms with publication or broadcast, most of it remains out of the public eye (and even hidden from the basilisk gaze of The Winco). And I would also suggest that the success ratio of national media coverage is, in any project, quite small. Persuading the national media to cover your pet project - again and again - is very hard. So something like today’s Mail coverage, or the letter and report in the Telegraph on 11 Feb, is the tip of an iceberg, and the result of much effort.

Finally, I would just like to make a point to the several posters who suggest that, once again, VTST is crying ‘wolf’, only to reveal a saviour of some kind at the last minute. In my experience, it may look like that - but on the last three occasions when the whole bang-shoot has been on the very edge of genuine disaster, it has actually been saved by a last-minute intervention which may have been developing for some time, but which has necessarily not matured until it was almost too late. If that happens this time, and 558 is saved again, that will be because, once again, people have just managed to pull the project out of the fire. Nobody likes doing it that way - but that seems to be the nature of keeping this amazing, unique, beloved aeroplane flying.

airsound
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Old 1st Mar 2009, 20:01
  #2336 (permalink)  
 
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Airsound, as with SMs post I found your's also informative and concise. I also have a bit of insight of behind the scenes from my own personnel experiences, but what has gone before now has very little bearing on the tremendous efforts currently by the club membership to get her back in the air and when we succeed, leave us to prevent this from happening again.

I am also one who has questioned the management competancy and used the cry wolf analogy, but again it is pointless going over the whys and wherefores now, or justification for this comment or that comment from last year, lets just concentrate on the task ahead get the pledge total to a figure that will give a green light for this years flying programme on the 6th.
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Old 1st Mar 2009, 21:38
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I start by saying that I am a supporter of TVOC

BUT

This is the umpteenth appeal for support from small donors in 3 years. I am prepared to bet my increasingly small pension that, if the pledges reach £1m, by August there will be another scare story and another final appeal.

I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with individuals, but the failure of the project, in my view, is that there was never any sign of on-going support - just a lot of hopes. This is being reflected in other big projects, notably the Olympics, so the appeal of Branson for Govt support is going to fall on deaf ears.

I mentioned before that on 3 occasions I made long journeys to see the Vulcan fly, only to be disappointed for one reason or another. Hearing other people's graphic descriptions have not lessened my disappointments.

Sadly, and with much regret, I am coming to the view that the project should be put out of its misery.
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Old 1st Mar 2009, 23:15
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Never mind sm, you can take a horse to water but if you can't make it drink, it will die. (metaphorically speaking of course.)
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 00:17
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well i can't really say much more than i have already except for one simple fact.

up until about six months ago, i was perhaps one of the top-three 'TVOC bashers' - not the 'sport' of simply rubbishing peoples' efforts for the fun of it, but being critical in the genuine sense of the word.

in fact, i only stopped short of suggesting that the whole 'bally-lot-of-'em' should be lynched!

those who know me, or even just my 'style', would now by now (i hope) that i have a fairly sound grasp of the facts before voicing my opinions, and also that i will always give credit where credit's due. this is a position which I've always held in life, not just for Vulcanesque issues!

that being said, I'm not a fickle type who's easy to convince - but i now have a completely different opinion on 558's future than i did at this time last year. there is a reason for this - i am no sheep blindly following a shepherd!

i would be the first to continue my 'campaign' against those at Brunty who stood in the way of 558's future, and wasted the salary that i and many others have worked tirelessly to raise. if such people and attitudes still existed, i would still be baying for blood - but this is the point..............THEY DO NOT ANY LONGER!

i firmly believe that the current team, their focus, attitude, business plan, outlook and passion really does make 558's future look very bright indeed. i see and hear proof of this every single day - twelve months ago, all of us ever heard was a big fat bugger-all!

i can't force others to support 558; you either share my views or you don't. I'm not a 'told you so' type - i could so easily say that about all the things I've said that have made so many despise my 'anti view' in the past - i haven't!

but i really cannot wait to come on here in another twelve months and say "TOLD YOU SO!"

by the way, where is Tombstone these days?????

sm
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Old 2nd Mar 2009, 07:00
  #2340 (permalink)  
 
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airsound,

I really did have to laugh when I read your comments about me personalising things! Good grief! that really is rich coming from someone whose responce to everything I have said about this project has been 'Pleming is my mate, you're wrong, he's right, sod off!'

However, unlike your dear friend Pleming, I am quite happy to respond to your continued hurling of personal abuse at myself, and by association, many other people I suspect.

You claim that you have explained why Pleming doesn't come on here, because of the scurrilous treatment he has received. Well Oh Dear, how very sad for him. The CEO of a multi milliion pound project can't take a bit of well-deserved critisism? And I say well-deserved because the likes of sm and others are assuring us all that the long overdue changes are finally happening.

I note, yet again, your continued refusal to answer the very simple question of why Pleming refuses to reply to letters or even acknowledge them. Let me ask you once again why you think that is the case?? You are his 'good friend' so why don't you ask him for us? I suspect that the reason is because he can't be bothered, thats why!

And could you please explain to us all here what a personal meeting with the VTS Business Development Manager was supposed to achieve? Surely if he had anything of value or importance to tell me, then he should be putting onto forums like this for everyone to read!

Both you and sm have told us in detail that changes are and have taken place, but what are they? What has actually changed? Clearty the PR and comms side haven't! But instead of me telling you what hasn't changed, why don't you tell us all what has changed. If I write another letter to Pleming, offering my support (again!) but asking a couple of 'tricky' questions, do you think I'll get a reply? Do you think I'll even get an acknowledement?

And let me conclude by refering you to your final paragraph about TVOC crying wolf. What can you do to assure me and the countless others, that this isn't just another 'cry wolf' exercise, like the last three? What has Pleming done to give us some or any assurance? In simple terms he has done nothing to assure the rank and file of the general public. He hasn't found the courage or conviction to come onto PPrune or the Key publishing forums and tell it as it is. I know you believe that to be OK on his part (after all, he can do no wrong can he airsound?) but the fact remains that he is supposed to be the CE of this outfit, and it's time he started acting like it, not hiding away saying he's not going to respond to scurrilous comments. How sad is that?

At the end of the day, without the money, this project will fail, and the fault IMHO lies firmly on the shoulders of Pleming and TVOC and their lack of transparancy and their failue to addfress public comments and concerns.

Over to you old boy!
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