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Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)

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Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)

Old 13th Oct 2020, 10:43
  #1161 (permalink)  
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Great nostalgia, I’ve flown at Nympsfield and my first solo was in a Prefect. Thanks!
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 23:51
  #1162 (permalink)  
 
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What the Air Cadets was all about

Makes you realise what the Corps lost when they 'upgraded'.
Zillions of 'SOLO's', and single seaters that Cadets could fly even at Halesland. !!!!
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 15:35
  #1163 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by POBJOY View Post
Makes you realise what the Corps lost when they 'upgraded'.
Zillions of 'SOLO's', and single seaters that Cadets could fly even at Halesland. !!!!
What really brought that home was dragging the ancient but serviceable wooden stuff out of a hangar full of 'unserviceable' glass ships at Hullavington...

We always looked longingly across the airfield at WSM at the high performance Ka6, Skylark 4 and the hot glass ships, but at least we were flying, which is more than can be said for this generation of Cadets
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 19:09
  #1164 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by 621andy View Post
What really brought that home was dragging the ancient but serviceable wooden stuff out of a hangar full of 'unserviceable' glass ships at Hullavington...

We always looked longingly across the airfield at WSM at the high performance Ka6, Skylark 4 and the hot glass ships, but at least we were flying, which is more than can be said for this generation of Cadets
When I flew at WSM we had a T21, a Bocian, a Meise, a Delphin and a Ka6, mostly ‘cool’ ships and we did a lot fewer launches than the ATC on the other side.
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 19:23
  #1165 (permalink)  
 
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I watched your Bocian being cut in half by a runaway tractor I now work (normally) with one of the owners of the Delfin; Small world!
We did get to fly the Ka6,8 and Skylark on occasions when swapping our old cable for your old cable
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 11:36
  #1166 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by 621andy View Post
I watched your Bocian being cut in half by a runaway tractor I now work (normally) with one of the owners of the Delfin; Small world!
We did get to fly the Ka6,8 and Skylark on occasions when swapping our old cable for your old cable
I'm amazed the Delfin is still going, it always reminded me of a spoon with wings!
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 14:53
  #1167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by POBJOY View Post
Makes you realise what the Corps lost when they 'upgraded'.
Zillions of 'SOLO's', and single seaters that Cadets could fly even at Halesland. !!!!
During the period I was a Staff Cadet at 613 Halton, we had 2 Prefects for a period of about 9 months each, '993 and '987 and I thoroughly enjoyed flying both of them.
I'd already got my Soaring Certificate/BGA 'C' Certificate before I was checked out for the Prefect, but in late '66 or early '67, the BGA introduced the 'Bronze C' which, I if I recall correctly, required 2 soaring flights of a minimum 30 min each from a winch launch or one flight of 60 min from an aerotow.
My longest flight was 24 min in Prefect '987 on 5 Apr '67, so I never even got half of a Bronze C!!
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 16:38
  #1168 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
During the period I was a Staff Cadet at 613 Halton, we had 2 Prefects for a period of about 9 months each, '993 and '987 and I thoroughly enjoyed flying both of them.
I'd already got my Soaring Certificate/BGA 'C' Certificate before I was checked out for the Prefect, but in late '66 or early '67, the BGA introduced the 'Bronze C' which, I if I recall correctly, required 2 soaring flights of a minimum 30 min each from a winch launch or one flight of 60 min from an aerotow.
My longest flight was 24 min in Prefect '987 on 5 Apr '67, so I never even got half of a Bronze C!!
As well as the two 30 mins flights, there was also an oral and written exam, plus a dual handling check ride with an instructor.
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 18:14
  #1169 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
As well as the two 30 mins flights, there was also an oral and written exam, plus a dual handling check ride with an instructor.
There is now but in the early days there wasn't.
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Old 18th Oct 2020, 05:30
  #1170 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
There is now but in the early days there wasn't.
I have to disagree given I did my Bronze at "Phoenix G.C " RAF Bruggen in 75 and the criteria I referred to were integral to gaining the badge. I did two handling check rides, one involving recovery from unusual attitudes, incipient spin recovery., stalls and the second involving a medium level simulated cable break with my altimeter covered in bodge tape....same instructor one Tony N-G. ( RIP ).....did the written exam in the workshop, conveniently located for the bar afterwards.

Back to the Cadet Mk3 and why the design and operation of the aircraft allowed so many 16 yr olds ( inc me at Burtonwood ) to safely launch themselves into the air solo.. The irony is the public, in the main, are unaware just how iconic this seemingly unremarkable glider is and how many people subsequently became professionally involved in aviation thanks in no small part to flying the aircraft
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Old 18th Oct 2020, 08:13
  #1171 (permalink)  
 
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The Bronze Badge requirements have had a bit of an evolution type history - the modern Bronze Badge requirements are totally different to what was required in the 70's/80's.
The exact procedure probably varied a little from club to club
My Bronze quals were similar to KnC - 2 x 30 min soaring flights off the winch (or 2 x 60 min flights off aerotow),Motorfalke flight for some Nav and Field Landing training/evaluation.3 x flights with the CFI for general handling,cable breaks etc including one simulated field landing into a very restricted part of the airfield plus of course written exam and some oral questions by CFI.

In those days the Bronze Badge was the cross country qualification - whereas nowadays there is a Cross Country Endorsment to qualify for x - country flying.

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Old 18th Oct 2020, 16:41
  #1172 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
The Bronze Badge requirements have had a bit of an evolution type history - the modern Bronze Badge requirements are totally different to what was required in the 70's/80's.
The exact procedure probably varied a little from club to club
My Bronze quals were similar to KnC - 2 x 30 min soaring flights off the winch (or 2 x 60 min flights off aerotow),Motorfalke flight for some Nav and Field Landing training/evaluation.3 x flights with the CFI for general handling,cable breaks etc including one simulated field landing into a very restricted part of the airfield plus of course written exam and some oral questions by CFI.

In those days the Bronze Badge was the cross country qualification - whereas nowadays there is a Cross Country Endorsment to qualify for x - country flying.
As you say. an evolving history. The field landing / nav checks were done later, after you'd got a few more hours and soaring flights in the work up to Silver distance flight at Phoenix.
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Old 18th Oct 2020, 17:28
  #1173 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
During the period I was a Staff Cadet at 613 Halton, we had 2 Prefects for a period of about 9 months each, '993 and '987 and I thoroughly enjoyed flying both of them.
I'd already got my Soaring Certificate/BGA 'C' Certificate before I was checked out for the Prefect, but in late '66 or early '67, the BGA introduced the 'Bronze C' which, I if I recall correctly, required 2 soaring flights of a minimum 30 min each from a winch launch or one flight of 60 min from an aerotow.
My longest flight was 24 min in Prefect '987 on 5 Apr '67, so I never even got half of a Bronze C!!
As I recall one went to Halesland to do an 'advanced course' which meant getting checked out on the Prefect on what was not exactly a large site. The 'extra' bit was going for the BGA 'C' cert (15 mins) and a simple written test.
The 'Bronze' was two 30 mins trips but the ATC in those days was all about getting the max no of Cadets airborne not chasing BGA Certs. In fact the Bronze was quite useful if you wished to get a PPL later as it reduced the power requirement to about 15 Hrs (quite a saving).
The Halesland experience was not exactly endowed with any extra training re 'out landings' which was surprising considering the nature of the site and Tyro Cadets stretching to get that magic 15 mins. Many on the course only had A&B experience and had not flown for some time. However history shows us that it worked, and confirmed that a 'simple system' using basic equipment was just the job for max hands on enjoyment and results. In fact there was more concern with not allowing the transport to go down the local hills back to base (Locking) after flying, so we had to wind our way back via 'Burrington Coombe' , and very pleasant it was. Managed the bronze when we had a Swallow for a w-end in the winter, and found a convenient bit of Cliff that had an onshore breeze but was a bit too far to get to with any reserve. Luckily the airfield had a selection of taxyways that ran to various parking areas so game on and two 40 min flights made.
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Old 18th Oct 2020, 19:08
  #1174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
As you say. an evolving history. The field landing / nav checks were done later, after you'd got a few more hours and soaring flights in the work up to Silver distance flight at Phoenix.
Definitely some club variation KnC.
The club I did my Bronze at (Daaaarset) was not a 'cross country' club so getting bronze was my ticket to freedom from local soaring - in my newly aquired Libelle 201b
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 06:21
  #1175 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Back to the Cadet Mk3 and why the design and operation of the aircraft allowed so many 16 yr olds ( inc me at Burtonwood ) to safely launch themselves into the air solo.. The irony is the public, in the main, are unaware just how iconic this seemingly unremarkable glider is and how many people subsequently became professionally involved in aviation thanks in no small part to flying the aircraft
I've made this point in the 'other' thread in the military section.
Air Cadets don't 'need' a high perf.glass ship for the 'proficiency' badge (later re-named BGT or Basic Gliding Training badge; probably something else nowadays) as you're initially only trained to 'first' solo and the MK3 fulfilled this role adequately, trouble is no-one makes a 'low performance' trainer nowadays and a true Mk 3 replacement would need designing from scratch.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 11:34
  #1176 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
I've made this point in the 'other' thread in the military section.
Air Cadets don't 'need' a high perf.glass ship for the 'proficiency' badge (later re-named BGT or Basic Gliding Training badge; probably something else nowadays) as you're initially only trained to 'first' solo and the MK3 fulfilled this role adequately, trouble is no-one makes a 'low performance' trainer nowadays and a true Mk 3 replacement would need designing from scratch.
But would it need designing from scratch? What design deficiencies would need to be addressed if it was put back into production? I soloed at Kenly in one and it seemed OK to me, but I'm no expert on this.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 12:38
  #1177 (permalink)  
 
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A better option might be to ask Alexander Schleicher to put the K-13 back into production or get a licence to build them in the UK, you can even have an open cockpit for the wind in hair feel of proper flight.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 14:29
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
But would it need designing from scratch? What design deficiencies would need to be addressed if it was put back into production? I soloed at Kenly in one and it seemed OK to me, but I'm no expert on this.
Same basic Slingsby design but for wooden frame substiture alloy tubes as used in microlights and a modern covering as also used in microlights to replace the doped fabric.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 14:31
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Originally Posted by sandringham1 View Post
A better option might be to ask Alexander Schleicher to put the K-13 back into production or get a licence to build them in the UK, you can even have an open cockpit for the wind in hair feel of proper flight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nykIXWw48XA
Isn't that a bit too high performance for the 'needs' of training cadets to solo standard?
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 04:18
  #1180 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
I have to disagree given I did my Bronze at "Phoenix G.C " RAF Bruggen in 75 t
I was working my way up the Silver ladder at Bruggen in 66 and they “gave” me a Bronze C on the strength of having one Silver C leg!

Managed to finish the Silver with a distance flight to Leige in the Ka2 on my last weekend at Brugen before returning to the UK to start work the following week.

Fantastic experience for an 18 year old! Thank you Phoenix G.C. and Flt.Lt. Ray Passfield.

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