Vulcan to the Sky, The End? (Merged)
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Vulcan to the Sky, The End? (Merged)
It would seem the end is nearing ever closer to the plight of Vulcan XH558, the worlds last potentially airworthy Vulcan.
Based at Bruntingthorpe, the Vulcan to the Sky trust have been trying for years to raise funds for her, however, even the addition of a lottery grant may not be enough.
Here is the press release from the Vulcan to the Sky Trust.
PRESS RELEASE 18.04.06
The battle is won but the war is not over! The restoration project approaches halfway to completion and ‘roll out' is planned in August this year for Avro Vulcan XH558, with test flight following shortly thereafter – and yet – the warrior may be vanquished!!
After eight years of investigation, preparation and fundraising it seems that the quest to return the last Avro Vulcan, to flight may have to accept defeat, just as the goal is in sight!
Unthinkable but a reality. Why? Because despite support from 20,000 donors who have given as much if not more than they can afford, a grant from the Heritage Lottery Fund and ‘Gifts in Kind' from some Equipment Manufacturers, the time lag between grant and contract, being both unexpected and unpredictable; the significant uplift in cost from two major aerospace contractors and the lack of an early commercial sponsor, means possible defeat for the return of Vulcan.
Bought for the Nation by the Vulcan to the Sky Trust (VTST), the restoration of Vulcan XH558 has always been complex, both in engineering and fundraising terms. But the energy and support that has been around for the past five years has sustained Vulcan to the Sky to date.
Sadly, a surprising 100% uplift on one major aspect of the contract and a further £500,000 ‘overrun estimate' in another are unaffordable in the timescale and could well be the last straw. That, together with the lack of a major sponsor at this stage looks like spelling disaster!
G-VLCN, as she will be when flying under civil registration, has been asked to participate in the 25 th Falklands Anniversary tribute in 2007 and other such commemorative events for the future and VTST were excited to accept. This will not now be possible if funds are not found to complete the work to ‘roll out' and beyond.
Tragic that this icon should be so near and yet so far from thrilling new generations; of paying tribute to national honour and to so eloquently epitomizing the era when a deterrent force kept peace in Europe .
Concorde will never fly again but Vulcan can - mother of Concorde, and a great, truly British, icon this aircraft should be supported to fly.
Vulcan is quintessentially British; her design was years ahead of its time and is still relevant in Aerospace R&D today; she is as significant to her era as is the Spitfire to the Second World War and she can be returned to flight!
The Access and Learning exhibition - the Outreach Museum – that will precede G-VLCN on her aerial journeys, will take the story of the Cold War to schools, colleges, universities and the wider community to share the experiences and historical facts of the era. A unique activity giving added value throughout the year to the historic facts of a deterrent force that did not fail and of a mission in the South Atlantic that undoubtedly helped bring an end to conflict. Sharing these little-lauded actions with new generations will inform and enhance their learning experience.
With rumoured flying costs of around £30,000 per hour, perhaps the good guys at the Trust have bitten off more than they can chew. Come on Mr Branson, you helped Sally B and wanted to help a Concorde, dig deep and help the Vulcan!
Based at Bruntingthorpe, the Vulcan to the Sky trust have been trying for years to raise funds for her, however, even the addition of a lottery grant may not be enough.
Here is the press release from the Vulcan to the Sky Trust.
PRESS RELEASE 18.04.06
The battle is won but the war is not over! The restoration project approaches halfway to completion and ‘roll out' is planned in August this year for Avro Vulcan XH558, with test flight following shortly thereafter – and yet – the warrior may be vanquished!!
After eight years of investigation, preparation and fundraising it seems that the quest to return the last Avro Vulcan, to flight may have to accept defeat, just as the goal is in sight!
Unthinkable but a reality. Why? Because despite support from 20,000 donors who have given as much if not more than they can afford, a grant from the Heritage Lottery Fund and ‘Gifts in Kind' from some Equipment Manufacturers, the time lag between grant and contract, being both unexpected and unpredictable; the significant uplift in cost from two major aerospace contractors and the lack of an early commercial sponsor, means possible defeat for the return of Vulcan.
Bought for the Nation by the Vulcan to the Sky Trust (VTST), the restoration of Vulcan XH558 has always been complex, both in engineering and fundraising terms. But the energy and support that has been around for the past five years has sustained Vulcan to the Sky to date.
Sadly, a surprising 100% uplift on one major aspect of the contract and a further £500,000 ‘overrun estimate' in another are unaffordable in the timescale and could well be the last straw. That, together with the lack of a major sponsor at this stage looks like spelling disaster!
G-VLCN, as she will be when flying under civil registration, has been asked to participate in the 25 th Falklands Anniversary tribute in 2007 and other such commemorative events for the future and VTST were excited to accept. This will not now be possible if funds are not found to complete the work to ‘roll out' and beyond.
Tragic that this icon should be so near and yet so far from thrilling new generations; of paying tribute to national honour and to so eloquently epitomizing the era when a deterrent force kept peace in Europe .
Concorde will never fly again but Vulcan can - mother of Concorde, and a great, truly British, icon this aircraft should be supported to fly.
Vulcan is quintessentially British; her design was years ahead of its time and is still relevant in Aerospace R&D today; she is as significant to her era as is the Spitfire to the Second World War and she can be returned to flight!
The Access and Learning exhibition - the Outreach Museum – that will precede G-VLCN on her aerial journeys, will take the story of the Cold War to schools, colleges, universities and the wider community to share the experiences and historical facts of the era. A unique activity giving added value throughout the year to the historic facts of a deterrent force that did not fail and of a mission in the South Atlantic that undoubtedly helped bring an end to conflict. Sharing these little-lauded actions with new generations will inform and enhance their learning experience.
With rumoured flying costs of around £30,000 per hour, perhaps the good guys at the Trust have bitten off more than they can chew. Come on Mr Branson, you helped Sally B and wanted to help a Concorde, dig deep and help the Vulcan!
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No....Mr Branson...take your hand out of your pocket and spend your money on something worthwhile. I'm surprised that it was an intention to participate in a South Atlantic 25th anniversary...Chances are it would have missed the flypast and over flown some other celebration.....
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based on the success of the sea vixen, has anyone approached RB and asked him for the money in return for painting it red and writing Virgin on it?
If we are going to be precious about camo I don't think it will happen
If we are going to be precious about camo I don't think it will happen
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Hmmmmm
Might not look too bad painted in the original white with a (not too big) virgin logo in place of one of the roundals.
I'm sure they'll find some more money before it has to have a really dodgy paint job.
Might not look too bad painted in the original white with a (not too big) virgin logo in place of one of the roundals.
I'm sure they'll find some more money before it has to have a really dodgy paint job.
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I've already thrown-in my two penneth about the Vulcan people on this forum, so I won't bother repeating it, suffice to say that I just wonder how a major project such as this can plod-on for so many years and still not find a major corporate sponsor. I mean, all these years? As has been mentioned, even the Sea Vixen found a sponsor, although God-forbid another poor aircraft appeared in Red Bull's vile colours, and especially not a Vulcan!
I have to question what the point is in continually asking enthusiasts and supporters to contribute small amounts of cash towards a project which needs large amounts of money. Surely, the project's administrators should be devoting all their time to finding a proper sponsor who would support the aircraft. You also have to ask whether Richard Branson has ever actually been asked to put his hand in his pocket, or at least asked properly.
They seem to spend time on lots of minor projects and small fund raising ideas, but don't appear to make any decisive effort to find a major sponsor. One has to wonder whether the time spent on small-scale fundraising just gives the impression (to potential sponsors) that the project is a small, amateur set-up that doesn't really need a proper supporter. Likewise, why isn't the aircraft on television or in the papers? News programmes are starved of good stories every day, and yet I've not seen 558 on the TV for years.
Worse still, I don't think anyone oustide of enthusiast circles really knows much about the project. There's no obvious "public face" that promotes the project, and there's never any obvious promotion of their website oustide of aviation publications. When you manage to get to the website it gives the impression that the project is an amateur fund-raising project, not an important national programme which should be treated as such.
Where are our MP's? Where are the papers? The TV? The radio? Celebrities? Even authors? (oops, I forgot, us authors are told to mind our own business when we try to help)...
I feel sorry for the guys that are putting all their efforts into restoring 558 because I have seen nothing to convince me that the project's administrators are handling the project all that well. Okay, I could be wrong, but part of my point here is that there's not much information made available to suggest otherwise.
I have to question what the point is in continually asking enthusiasts and supporters to contribute small amounts of cash towards a project which needs large amounts of money. Surely, the project's administrators should be devoting all their time to finding a proper sponsor who would support the aircraft. You also have to ask whether Richard Branson has ever actually been asked to put his hand in his pocket, or at least asked properly.
They seem to spend time on lots of minor projects and small fund raising ideas, but don't appear to make any decisive effort to find a major sponsor. One has to wonder whether the time spent on small-scale fundraising just gives the impression (to potential sponsors) that the project is a small, amateur set-up that doesn't really need a proper supporter. Likewise, why isn't the aircraft on television or in the papers? News programmes are starved of good stories every day, and yet I've not seen 558 on the TV for years.
Worse still, I don't think anyone oustide of enthusiast circles really knows much about the project. There's no obvious "public face" that promotes the project, and there's never any obvious promotion of their website oustide of aviation publications. When you manage to get to the website it gives the impression that the project is an amateur fund-raising project, not an important national programme which should be treated as such.
Where are our MP's? Where are the papers? The TV? The radio? Celebrities? Even authors? (oops, I forgot, us authors are told to mind our own business when we try to help)...
I feel sorry for the guys that are putting all their efforts into restoring 558 because I have seen nothing to convince me that the project's administrators are handling the project all that well. Okay, I could be wrong, but part of my point here is that there's not much information made available to suggest otherwise.
Originally Posted by Tim McLelland
You also have to ask whether Richard Branson has ever actually been asked to put his hand in his pocket, or at least asked properly.
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Well who knows what has really happened over the past decade since the project started. Let's just hope that they get themselves a proper sponsor eventually, instead of having to continually beg for contributions which will inevitably dry-up and never quite be enough in any case!
Incidentally, what's all this in their press release about how a "Concorde will never fly again" ?
Er... says who?
Anyhow, I find all this news a bit strange - we're continually told how the Lottery people examine every case with great care now, so how can they suddenly throw money at the Vulcan only to find-out a few months later that the project is in danger of failing? Doesn't sound quite right to me. What exactly is this half-a-million "over-run" and what exactly is a "100 percent uplift" in English? And why wasn't everything finalised down to the last penny before the Lottery Fund handed-over their cash?
I'm still prompted to ask why there isn't any definitive information from TVOC as to what is really going on. It's all very well to quote "reports" and what people "have heard" but where are the facts and figures? I thought the Vulcan had been "handed to the nation" in which case, maybe the nation ought to be a little better informed?
Incidentally, what's all this in their press release about how a "Concorde will never fly again" ?
Er... says who?
Anyhow, I find all this news a bit strange - we're continually told how the Lottery people examine every case with great care now, so how can they suddenly throw money at the Vulcan only to find-out a few months later that the project is in danger of failing? Doesn't sound quite right to me. What exactly is this half-a-million "over-run" and what exactly is a "100 percent uplift" in English? And why wasn't everything finalised down to the last penny before the Lottery Fund handed-over their cash?
I'm still prompted to ask why there isn't any definitive information from TVOC as to what is really going on. It's all very well to quote "reports" and what people "have heard" but where are the facts and figures? I thought the Vulcan had been "handed to the nation" in which case, maybe the nation ought to be a little better informed?
Last edited by Tim McLelland; 20th Apr 2006 at 12:03.
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I wish I could say that I am surprised, but I am not in the slightest! It is simply one thing after another with this aircraft, and now yet again, the team are asking for more funds and donations to put her in the air.
Frankly, I agree (for once!) with rafloo in that I too hope that Mr B does not help them out. The time has come for the aircraft to be put back together again, and displayed in a museum. No more money (from any area) should be ploughed into this White Elephant of a project.
RIP 558!
TSM
Frankly, I agree (for once!) with rafloo in that I too hope that Mr B does not help them out. The time has come for the aircraft to be put back together again, and displayed in a museum. No more money (from any area) should be ploughed into this White Elephant of a project.
RIP 558!
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Overun and Uplift
I think these are jargon for a project in progress going over budget and a tender for work to be done in the future, being increased by a certan %age.
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Let it Die!
Push some of the cash into restoring some other, more affordable aircraft. Personally I would vote for a couple of Typhoon to strafe tanks at air displays, that would be splendid.
Can't get nostalgic about a V-bomber just because it was graceful and those that flew it thought it was special. Let's face it, it didn't actually do much apart from drop a few bombs nearly on target in the FI... Far more impressive service records to remember among the fleets of the rotting and museum-bound.
Sat back now, awaiting a torrent of abuse...
Can't get nostalgic about a V-bomber just because it was graceful and those that flew it thought it was special. Let's face it, it didn't actually do much apart from drop a few bombs nearly on target in the FI... Far more impressive service records to remember among the fleets of the rotting and museum-bound.
Sat back now, awaiting a torrent of abuse...
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Let's not bother having a schoolyard scrap - we all know the Vulcan's significance, and I suspect that this latest development is merely a new angle to keep-up the money-raising momentum. But whatever the facts behind this, I'd still like to know precicesly what efforts have been made over the past few years, to get a proper sponsor. Don't suppose we'll ever find out though.
Originally Posted by South Bound
Personally I would vote for a couple of Typhoon to strafe tanks at air displays, that would be splendid.
Regarding the availability of Lottery cash: My understanding was that the £3.5M (or whatever it was) was set aside for this project by the LC, rather than being paid in one lump. It was/is to be released in stages as additional supporting funds are raised from other sources.
If that's so (anyone confirm?), then it's quite possible that some lottery cash is still ring-fenced but is unavailable until or unless further non-lottery money is found.
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Regarding the 100% uplift and £500 000 overrun.
Unfortunately, as much of a good cause the project may be, they are obviously relying upon the support of the OEM's to get the aircraft airworthy, by carrying out all the specialised deep maintenance. This was a CAA requirement, and a condition of the acceptance.
Sadly the OEM's are all businesses who are out to make as much profit as possible, and probably could not care less if the aircraft was to ever fly again. Is it really the fault of the VOC or the Heritage Lottery fund if the OEM's suddenly decide that "Oh dear, it's going to cost you a lot more than we initially estimated"?!?
Especially as one of the largest OEM's supporting the Vulcan project is British Waste of Space.
I mean it's not like they've done that before now is it
Personally, I sincerely hope that this project DOES succeed and will certainly be doing my bit, and dipping my hand into my pocket again. The sight and sound of the mighty Vulcan at airshows during my youth, was definitely one of the major influencing factors in my desire to join the RAF, and I'm sure that a whole new generation will have the same feelings stirred in them the first time they see the sky darken, and feel the ground shake beneath their feet
Unfortunately, as much of a good cause the project may be, they are obviously relying upon the support of the OEM's to get the aircraft airworthy, by carrying out all the specialised deep maintenance. This was a CAA requirement, and a condition of the acceptance.
Sadly the OEM's are all businesses who are out to make as much profit as possible, and probably could not care less if the aircraft was to ever fly again. Is it really the fault of the VOC or the Heritage Lottery fund if the OEM's suddenly decide that "Oh dear, it's going to cost you a lot more than we initially estimated"?!?
Especially as one of the largest OEM's supporting the Vulcan project is British Waste of Space.
I mean it's not like they've done that before now is it
Personally, I sincerely hope that this project DOES succeed and will certainly be doing my bit, and dipping my hand into my pocket again. The sight and sound of the mighty Vulcan at airshows during my youth, was definitely one of the major influencing factors in my desire to join the RAF, and I'm sure that a whole new generation will have the same feelings stirred in them the first time they see the sky darken, and feel the ground shake beneath their feet
Originally Posted by South Bound
Push some of the cash into restoring some other, more affordable aircraft. Personally I would vote for a couple of Typhoon to strafe tanks at air displays, that would be splendid.
Hmmmm.....I think you'll need a bit more than what's needed to get '558 in the air for that kind of project.....
New build airframe from scratch without the aid of a complete set of drawings left in existance IIRC, not to mention the problem of an almost complete lack of suitable Napier Sabre's and most other mechanical parts........
Yup, the Vulcan is a cheap project by comparison....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Lincolshire Echo tonight carried a price list.
Elevons and Rudder - £16 935
Elevons - £9548
Nose Gear - £2991
Main Gear - £7122
Tyres - £6198
Oxygen Regulator - £2991
Beam compass - £9930 - beam compass ?
Attitude Director - £2930
Flexible Pipe - £6105
Fuel System Asbestos - £14693
Engine Confidence Test - £65120
Air Con - £2035
Instrument Test - £2035
Painting - £3581
Painting at Cranwell £3581
Fuel System - £50000
TBC - £30000 each.
I like the last two - good honest numbers rather than the precise ones above. Some of the above are replacements and some are for refurb.
Interesting what is outstanding. I guess that means things like hydraulics, bang seats, seals, panels, fuel systems, engines, fuel tanks etc are all bought and paid for.
Elevons and Rudder - £16 935
Elevons - £9548
Nose Gear - £2991
Main Gear - £7122
Tyres - £6198
Oxygen Regulator - £2991
Beam compass - £9930 - beam compass ?
Attitude Director - £2930
Flexible Pipe - £6105
Fuel System Asbestos - £14693
Engine Confidence Test - £65120
Air Con - £2035
Instrument Test - £2035
Painting - £3581
Painting at Cranwell £3581
Fuel System - £50000
TBC - £30000 each.
I like the last two - good honest numbers rather than the precise ones above. Some of the above are replacements and some are for refurb.
Interesting what is outstanding. I guess that means things like hydraulics, bang seats, seals, panels, fuel systems, engines, fuel tanks etc are all bought and paid for.
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There was a large amount of stores held in reserve as "War Stock" I believe, but obviously much of this will probably be vast quantities of the same items, and probably low value C-stores type items.
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Mastercard ad?
Sight and sound of a Vulcan airborne, priceless!
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
Elevons and Rudder - £16 935
Elevons - £9548
Nose Gear - £2991
Main Gear - £7122
Tyres - £6198
Oxygen Regulator - £2991
Beam compass - £9930 - beam compass ?
Attitude Director - £2930
Flexible Pipe - £6105
Fuel System Asbestos - £14693
Engine Confidence Test - £65120
Air Con - £2035
Instrument Test - £2035
Painting - £3581
Painting at Cranwell £3581
Fuel System - £50000
TBC - £30000 e
Elevons - £9548
Nose Gear - £2991
Main Gear - £7122
Tyres - £6198
Oxygen Regulator - £2991
Beam compass - £9930 - beam compass ?
Attitude Director - £2930
Flexible Pipe - £6105
Fuel System Asbestos - £14693
Engine Confidence Test - £65120
Air Con - £2035
Instrument Test - £2035
Painting - £3581
Painting at Cranwell £3581
Fuel System - £50000
TBC - £30000 e
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Tim,
Don't forget that it's not just the exterior of the jet that needs painting. There are many many constituant parts that have corroded/deteriorated over the years, that need painting too. This will make up the majority of the Cranwell painting bill.
Agree completely with Brickhistory though
Don't forget that it's not just the exterior of the jet that needs painting. There are many many constituant parts that have corroded/deteriorated over the years, that need painting too. This will make up the majority of the Cranwell painting bill.
Agree completely with Brickhistory though
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This is becoming ridiculous.
Why is the RAF charging a measly £3500 for painting? Given the marvellous recruiting/PR boost that 558 will give the RAF, it seems churlish in the extreme to charge £3500 for painting. If it were £150k, then sure, but at £3500???
Come to think of it, why doesnt the RAF absorb the Vulcan into the BBMF, and rename it "Historical Flight"? Might give a chance to save the odd pioneering Jet-age aircraft, and at the same time help to improve the RAF's image, young and old alike.
In fact, if the RAF owned and flew it, rumour has it, they have a degree of experience of operating this, and other types of large aircraft! Who better?
Or is it me being naive?? Meanwhile, the MOD shells out millions to f***wits who live close to RAF stations and wonder why they can hear aircraft!!!! Better still, base the Vulcan and Lancaster at Odiham for noise reasons.
Grrrrrr!!!!!!
Why is the RAF charging a measly £3500 for painting? Given the marvellous recruiting/PR boost that 558 will give the RAF, it seems churlish in the extreme to charge £3500 for painting. If it were £150k, then sure, but at £3500???
Come to think of it, why doesnt the RAF absorb the Vulcan into the BBMF, and rename it "Historical Flight"? Might give a chance to save the odd pioneering Jet-age aircraft, and at the same time help to improve the RAF's image, young and old alike.
In fact, if the RAF owned and flew it, rumour has it, they have a degree of experience of operating this, and other types of large aircraft! Who better?
Or is it me being naive?? Meanwhile, the MOD shells out millions to f***wits who live close to RAF stations and wonder why they can hear aircraft!!!! Better still, base the Vulcan and Lancaster at Odiham for noise reasons.
Grrrrrr!!!!!!