Restored Boeing 307 down in Seattle
Trash du Blanc
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KBHM
Posts: 1,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Restored Boeing 307 down in Seattle
Early reports on CNN are of a four-engined prop aircraft submerged off the end of a runway in Seattle. I got a partial regstration number, and it looks like the Smithonian Boeing 307 that was at Oshkosh last year. Says "PAA" on the rear fuselage.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: western europe
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
some interesting background info on the 307 at this web add'y ..... .. .<a href="http://216.219.216.110/boeing/307.html" target="_blank">http://216.219.216.110/boeing/307.html</a>
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Age: 64
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's the newsstory from local station Komo4 ... .. .<a href="http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=17560" target="_blank">http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=17560</a>. .. . <img src="http://www.komotv.com/news/images/plane_down_032802.jpg" alt="" />
Very sad to see this happen.. .. .Treat her right and let Aviation salvage people recover her (couldn't find a better location) and she'll fly again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .Glad everyone got out OK.
Here's hoping it's fresh water.. .. .And a very well done for the crew.
It is salt water unfortunately. There are a variety of eye witness reports on TV, about the impending collision which they avoided with Salty's restaraunt!. .. .One of the Seattle news channels now says they have home video of the ditching (not much of a surprise anymore)! . .. .Their best bet for salvaging would be to load the machine onto a barge and take it into Lake Washington and completely submerge it in fresh water (if they might be allowed to do that). This will allow the complete flushing of salt water from the aircraft, prior to lifting into the air and starting a fresh water wash-down preservation.. .. .Corrosion-X the entire aircraft as soon as it is removed from fresh water and drained and get onto the removal of all the major components and other delicate items. . .. .Radios, instruments, etc, are generally trashed by this type of immersion, but most other parts are recoverable or rebuildable. Motors were running at impact (or 3 anyway?), so that will probably be the end of them. Of course, one of the biggest parts is inspecting everything to ensure you've covered any potential damage and potentially corrosive residue. . .. .Biggest challenge is to ensure that the aircraft isn't seriously damaged during the recovery phase, but they should be able to get to it OK where it's at. . .. .With the extent of the restoration done to this machine, it is possible it will be flying again pretty rapidly. I certainly hope so.
Glad they all got out and the pilot seems to have done a great job of putting her down with (apparently) minimum damage. Hope the old Boeing boys get her flying again.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The most important thing: all involved are safe with only minor injuries.. .. .Having said that I hope also she can be made airworthy again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> .
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Iowa USA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just some "human interest" input to this thread.. .. .About an hour before this thread was started I recieved a call from my sister-in-law. I was going to post a question asking if anyone knew what happened. Anyway found it on a Seattle news site and put sis-in-laws mind to rest.. .. .She got a frantic call from her son who is in the US Navy. His ship is in dry dock. (don't think I should name the ship...) The jist of the call was.. "MOM a really big plane with propellers and about 20 or 40 windows along the side just missed the mast and crashed in the bay!!!!! What is on the news!!". .. .After 9/11 I think the military is more "on edge". .. .Anyway the point of my post is that IT IS A GOOD JOB THEY WERE IN DRY DOCK! Otherwise their systems would be online and there is a good chance they would have shot it down. . .. .Glad the crew are OK...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
63 years of Boeing history dives into bay. .. .Link to story with pictures........ .<a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134428029_plane29m.html" target="_blank">http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134428029_plane29m.html</a>. .. .By Ian Ith and J. Martin McOmber. .Seattle Times staff reporters. .. .It was almost as if the last surviving Boeing 307 Stratoliner and Richard. ."Buzz" Nelson were related by blood.. .. .Old friends remember the day when Nelson, who was behind the controls. .yesterday when the historic plane crashed into. .Elliott Bay, piloted the old Clipper Flying Cloud home from Arizona, its. .four huge engines churning as it approached. .Boeing Field for the first time in decades.. .. .On the tarmac that day, waiting for his son's arrival, was Richard "Dick". .Nelson Sr., 84, a retired Boeing engineer and. .pilot who had helped teach his son to fly. And he had helped design the. .Stratoliner back in 1939. He would only live. .another year after the 1994 reunion.. .. .Nelson and three other men yesterday walked away from the water landing that. .left the recently restored airplane bobbing. .in the 100-foot-deep water off Alki. Hundreds saw the spectacular landing.. .. ."Two guys got out and they hugged," said Brenda Lukas of Seattle, who was. .eating at Salty's on Alki. "Another guy walked. .to the end of the wing, carrying a briefcase in his hand. He looked like he. .was waiting for a cab.". .. .Also on the plane were Mark Kempton, 43, from Puyallup; Nathan Andrews, 43,. .from Graham, Pierce County; and Mike. .Carriker. All were treated at Harborview Medical Center and released.. .. ."Buzz is a very capable pilot," said Roy Ostling, an 86-year-old retired. .Boeing engineer who also worked on the. .Stratoliner design. "He had a lot of experience flying with his father.". .. .Nelson and the other three were on a team of 30 people, mostly volunteers,. .involved in the Boeing-backed effort to. .rescue and restore the 63-year-old plane.. .. .It was flown several times and was scheduled to become the centerpiece at. .the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, the new. .companion facility of the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum that. .is scheduled to open next year near. .Washington, D.C.. .. .Debra Eckrote of the National Transportation Safety Board, which is. .investigating the crash, told The Associated Press. .that three Boeing test pilots and an observer had taken the plane up for a. .proficiency test. Boeing last night described. .it as a test flight, and said the plane was in the air for about an hour.. .. .The men all apparently share an obsession with the historic plane.. .. .Nathan Andrews is a Boeing electrician assigned to the restoration project.. .His wife, Mindy, said he comes from a family. .of rabid flying enthusiasts. Nathan's mother lives by the runway at Cougar. .Mountain Airport and his father's house sits. .near Shady Acres Airport in Spanaway. The Andrewses live next to the runway. .at Graham's Kapowsin Field, where Nathan. .takes off in his Cessna.. .. .The Stratoliner "was not only a big part of his life. It was his life," she. .said. "He loved the plane. It was his. .passion.". .. .Nelson, too, is a vintage-aviation buff, according to a Boeing pilot. .biography. He even owned a Cristen Eagle aerobatic. .biplane.. .. .Nelson is a chief pilot for the 767 test program who has accumulated more. .than 14,000 flying hours during his 40-year. .career. Boeing says he is qualified to fly the 737, 747, 757, 767 and 777,. .as well as several out-of-production and. .vintage models.. .. .Yesterday, that experience apparently paid off.. .. .Mike Fergus, spokesman for the Seattle office of the Federal Aviation. .Administration, said Nelson was on final approach. .to Boeing Field when he reported a light indicating a problem with his. .landing gear. He broke off the approach and. .circled over Bainbridge Island while he checked into the problem.. .. .Around 1 p.m., Nelson began a landing approach from the north to Boeing. .Field on runway 13-Right, which runs southwest,. .Fergus said. At 1:08 p.m., the pilot radioed a "mayday.". .. .A minute later, Fergus said, "the pilot said it appeared he was going to. .impact the ground." Instead, he managed to. .ditch the plane in Elliott Bay just off West Seattle.. .. .Bob McLaughlin, a wildlife observer with Project Seawolf, an Orca-study. .group, was in a boat at Elliott Bay Marina below. .Magnolia when he spotted the plane circling just above the water off. .Bainbridge Island. It appeared that a right. .propeller was failing, and only one half of the landing gear was lowered.. .. ."We knew it was in some sort of trouble," he said. "You could see the. .propeller wasn't developing power.". .. .But the problems apparently went beyond that.. .. .Larry Cummings, 62, a retired Boeing mechanic who has worked on the. .Stratoliner since 1995, said the plane "absolutely". .could have flown with one or even two dead engines. "If you got past two. .engines, then you'd have problems.". .. .People all along the waterfront heard the sputtering engines.. .. ."It'd go, 'boom, boom, boom,' and then it was silent. Then it went, 'boom,. .boom, boom,' and then it was silent again,". .said Janette Waistelle, 65, who was walking along Alki.. .. .Monty Graham heard it, too. The 24-year-old was just finishing a training. .dive with his class from the Divers Institute. .of Technology.. .. .He and his classmates turned to watch the plane drop lower and lower.. .Suddenly, it banked sharply and headed directly at. .them.. .. ."One of my buddies yelled 'Run!' And that's what we did," Graham said.. .. .Inside the nearby Salty's restaurant, more than 100 people were eating lunch. .as the plane seemed to zero in on the. .restaurant's large windows.. .. ."The plane was wiggling its wings back and forth," said Earl Gutschmidt of. .Sammamish, who sat at a corner window with. .his wife and grandson. "It looked like a demonstration. But then it was. .coming right for us, right for our window.''. .. .As the plane landed, it sent a 35-foot wall of water toward the shore. A few. .moments later, the hatch above one of the. .wings popped open.. .. .Rescue crews were on the way almost as soon as the plane hit the water. The. .Coast Guard arrived within minutes, followed. .closely by police and fire boats.. .. .They helped the men, all apparently unharmed, board the rescue boat. The men. .were taken to Don Armeni boat launch, and. .paramedics took them to the hospital.. .. .Meanwhile, the police boat attached a line to the rear landing gear and. .towed the half-submerged plane closer to shore.. .. .Police and Fire Department divers examined the plane's underside, prepared. .to stop any fuel leaks. Salvage crews strung. .bright yellow booms along the rocky shore to contain any spill.. .. .Last night, the Coast Guard and state Department of Ecology said the "sheen. .of aviation gas" that spilled had no effect. .on the beach or wildlife.. .. .Attention now turns to salvaging the plane. Officials yesterday expected it. .would take at least a day before it is back. .on dry land.. .. .Cranes could be used to lift the plane, which then could be tranported to. .Boeing Field on a flatbed truck, Eckrote said.. .Foss Environmentals and Global Diving and Environmentals, two local. .salvagers, were at the crash site last night.. .. ."I'm assuming that they're going to rescue the airplane," said Cummings, the. .retired mechanic. He couldn't say whether. .the aircraft might be too damaged, especially from effects of salt water, to. .be salvaged. "Water doesn't help anything. .out.". .. .At any rate, Cummings said the Stratoliner's four engines likely will have. .to be rebuilt.. .. .It's up to the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum to decide whether. .it still wants to exhibit the Stratoliner,. .and it's up to Boeing whether it would continue funding the restoration.. .. .Seeing the Stratoliner submerged in water "was very hard. It's like losing a. .relative," Cummings said.. .. .He hopes the story of the rescued vintage airplane won't end in Elliott Bay.. .. ."It's the last of the pack. It's part of Boeing's history.". .. . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *. .. .Lovingly restored plane is model's lone survivor. .. .Link to story with pictures...... .<a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134428028_planehistory29m.ht" target="_blank">http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134428028_planehistory29m.ht</a>. .ml. .. .By Mike Carter and Kyung M. Song. .Seattle Times staff reporters. .. .The spectacular crash of the Clipper Flying Cloud just off Alki yesterday. .put yet another endangered species in Puget. .Sound: the last Boeing Stratoliner 307.. .. .The meticulously restored passenger airplane was in the last stages of. .repair before becoming the centerpiece of the. .Smithsonian's new Air and Space Museum annex set to open next year at Dulles. .International Airport in Virginia.. .. .The crew members in yesterday's flight included the man who had spearheaded. .the plane's restoration and the son of the. .man who helped design it.. .. .The Clipper Flying Cloud was built in 1939 and was one of just 10 of the. .planes built before World War II intervened and. .Boeing switched to building the stalwart B-17 Flying Fortress bomber, which. .used the same frame as the Stratoliner.. .. .According to Boeing records, the Clipper Flying Cloud was delivered to Pan. .Am on March 22, 1940, and flew a commercial. .route in the Caribbean. In 1942, it was commissioned as an Army Air Forces. .transport, serving mostly in South America.. .. .It returned to commercial service in 1946 and flew mostly between Bermuda. .and New York for nine years.. .. .In 1954, it was sold to the Haitian air force, and the Clipper Flying Cloud. .became the personal plane of strongman. .President Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier.. .. .Its history is muddled for the next 26 years. Boeing documents show it. .changed hands several times during that period. .until it was discovered in 1972 by the Smithsonian in Arizona, where its. .owner was attempting to convert it to a crop. .duster. By that time, it was one of the last Stratoliners in existence.. .. .The only other two were flying in Southeast Asia, and both had crashed by. .1975.. .. .The Smithsonian loaned the plane to the Pima Air & Space Museum in Arizona,. .where it was discovered by Boeing employees,. .who persuaded Boeing to restore it.. .. .It took nearly three years to get it back into the air and fly it to. .Seattle, and then an additional six to restore it. .to its original wonder as the art-deco equivalent of the Concorde.. .. .The Stratoliner was the first airliner with a pressurized cabin and four. .engines, capable of ferrying the well-heeled. .from San Francisco to New York in luxury in just under 13 hours. A one-way,. .cross-country ticket cost $1,000 in 1940 -. .the equivalent of more than $12,000 today.. .. .Twenty-four of its 33 seats were set up in pairs of triple-seat divans,. .facing one another, with curtains that could be. .drawn for privacy.. .. .No detail was spared in the restoration. Boeing historian Mike Lombardi said. .an old swatch of cloth from the bulkhead,. .emblazoned with the Pan Am logo, was found in the archives. The original. .East Coast manufacturer, still in business,. .replicated it.. .. .The restoration team headed by Mark Kempton, who was on board yesterday,. .used rebuilt B-17 wings, tail and engines on. .the project. It cost $35,000 each to replace the four power plants.. .. .Larry Cummings, 62, one of some 30 retired Boeing workers who volunteered. .their time on the project, said he and other. .volunteers he had spoken with were heartbroken by the crash.. .. .Seeing photos of the fuselage in the water "was very hard. It's like losing. .a relative.". .. ."We are glad everyone got out. That's No. 1," he said. "Now we're concerned. .about the airplane.". .. .When the plane was first built, Boeing boasted that it could fly above. .turbulence and the weather at nearly 20,000 feet. .at more than 200 miles an hour, the first all-weather luxury airliner.. .Actual cruising altitude was closer to 14,000. .feet, and the plane was still buffeted in bad storms.. .. .Still, "there was nothing like this in the air," said Lombardi.. .. .So innovative was the Stratoliner when it was introduced in 1940 that. .aviation pioneer Howard Hughes, who just a year. .earlier had set the record for flying around the world in a Lockheed. .twin-prop, demanded that Boeing provide him with a. .Stratoliner so he could challenge his own record.. .. .Lombardi said that when Hughes found out that Trans World Airlines had. .ordered planes first and that he'd have to wait,. .the impatient Hughes bought a controlling interest in TWA and co-opted the. .order.. .. .The playboy in Hughes got the best of him, however, and instead of racing. .the Stratoliner around the world, he converted. .his S-307 into a "flying penthouse" complete with two beds and a bar. It. .cost Hughes $250,000 at the time - the. .equivalent of about $2.7 million today.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Denver, Co. usa
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The plan is to lift it onto a barge which will float down the river to the Boeing hangars at Boeing Field. That is about 1 or 2 miles. Boeing has a restoration facility a Everett so it may be dismantled to truck to Everett.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: €
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Meanwhile, new details about what happened Thursday came out of a briefing by a National Transportation Safety Board. .official Friday afternoon.. .. .The investigator said the plane's number three engine -- the right, inboard engine -- had a power surge when the plane. .took off from Paine Field on its return to Boeing Field.. .. .She said the engine then "normalized" but when the captain put the gear down for landing, the left main landing gear. .didn't lock. The plane orbited Bainbridge Island and Vashon Island while the flight engineer hand-cranked the gear into. .position.. .. .The number three engine then lost power, followed by a loss of power in the other engines. The pilot then ditched the. .plane into Elliott Bay, off Alki Point.. .. .The investigator said all four people on the airplane were interviewed Friday morning and all are cooperating fully with. .investigators.. .. . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *. .. . I'm not jumping to conclusions, but this scenario is eerily similar to the UAL DC-8 at Portland some years back............
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: €
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The question is...why would anyone throw good money after bad on this aeroplane? Looks really nice...for a static display.
Me thinks a serious investigation is/will be, at hand.
These old aeroplanes require a special expertise...wonder where it was on the day in question?
Perhaps a few Walter Mittys were in charge?
Me thinks a serious investigation is/will be, at hand.
These old aeroplanes require a special expertise...wonder where it was on the day in question?
Perhaps a few Walter Mittys were in charge?