Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I heard this one the location was Waddo, the occasion was a Summer Ball (mid-70s - not later), and the young ladies were Newfie schoolies.
No doubt, the truth of this will remain as elusive as the coachload of Swedish nymphomaniacs that 'happened to leave this morning'.
Must add that January has brought some great additions to 'Vulcans in Camera'.
http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/htm/latest.htm
Thanks to the readers of this forum who have submitted images. If I receive many more pictures of 'Vulcan People', I shall have to spin them off onto a new site.
Additions, captions, amendments welcomed.
No doubt, the truth of this will remain as elusive as the coachload of Swedish nymphomaniacs that 'happened to leave this morning'.
Must add that January has brought some great additions to 'Vulcans in Camera'.
http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/htm/latest.htm
Thanks to the readers of this forum who have submitted images. If I receive many more pictures of 'Vulcan People', I shall have to spin them off onto a new site.
Additions, captions, amendments welcomed.
Last edited by alamo; 1st Feb 2004 at 19:40.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The Carrier was the Ark, the Shack was out in FEAF. They got the carrier discrete comms and simply called up for a CCA.
The Navy reputedly thought they were going for a landing rather than an overshoot.
About 64 or 65.
The Navy reputedly thought they were going for a landing rather than an overshoot.
About 64 or 65.
BTW, Pontius , what was the "favourite target"? 700 miles to TOD, then 900 miles on at low level. (assuming based in the UK) Obviously in the depths of the Motherland. Even Kiev wouldn't be far enough? Voronezh with a Turkish or Iranian recovery? Nizhni Novgorod? (creative thinking hat) Arkhangelsk?
UK War Plan
FJJP wrote:
Well some parts of it are already in the public domain. A few years ago there was programme on Ch4 (I think) entitled "The Moscow Criterion" that examined the UK deterrent policy, which was of course based on maintaining a credible capability to destroy Moscow. The program went into some detail about launch and release procedures and of course the target!. But we all covered that one, didn't we?
YS
Hey, guys. Let's not post about the V-Force war plan. It remains classified, even though it no longer exists.
YS
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Steamchicken
It was Kiev, I only roughed out the calculations.
As far as public domain goes, I had permission to give a lecture on the war plans and a fair amount of detail on the war SOP was included. I omitted any mention of Chapter 6 however as that was still classified.
Kiev was one of the targets I used to illustrate deep penetration at low level. The others were Lenningrad, Murmansk, the principal ones on the Baltic littoral, and then the rest spreading towards Big M.
I did not seek, nor was I granted, any clearance to discuss NEAF War Plans. They were just as exciting.
It was Kiev, I only roughed out the calculations.
As far as public domain goes, I had permission to give a lecture on the war plans and a fair amount of detail on the war SOP was included. I omitted any mention of Chapter 6 however as that was still classified.
Kiev was one of the targets I used to illustrate deep penetration at low level. The others were Lenningrad, Murmansk, the principal ones on the Baltic littoral, and then the rest spreading towards Big M.
I did not seek, nor was I granted, any clearance to discuss NEAF War Plans. They were just as exciting.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Over there, behind that tree.
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to keep this memorable thread ticking over, the Vulcan blokes will surely recall this scene. 
Scanned from an old copy of Aircraft Illustrated I came across today.
Scanned from an old copy of Aircraft Illustrated I came across today.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Finningley 30 July 1977
This has to be Finningley as it was the only class 1 airfield with the ORP on the right.
Aircraft are XM650 [50], XL389 [IX], XM648 [101] and XM594 [44R].
I recall Wadpolling the latter for most of a day.
Occasion was the Queen's Silver Jubilee [Sleepy Fred] celebration.
Aircraft are XM650 [50], XL389 [IX], XM648 [101] and XM594 [44R].
I recall Wadpolling the latter for most of a day.
Occasion was the Queen's Silver Jubilee [Sleepy Fred] celebration.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: City of Culture
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a question to do with F3 intercepts against old soviet bombers. Why im asking is that ive been reading through this thread and Beagle talks about how a bomber through use of afterburner and flying at high level an incoming fighter only has a small window for an intercept before he runs out of fuel and has to go home. What im wondering is would an F3 have the same difficulties against a Blackjack as they dont have much go-go juice in afterburner and cant fly at high atlitude?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Vulcans
What a lovely site, it takes me back years. Only just found it.
Just a couple of points which have risen from the deepest depths - It was definitely dear Harold (TSR 2) Wilson who threatened to use the V force to bomb Salisbury. I remember the row we had with our squadron boss when we said we would prefer to bomb Cardiff first. ( He was Welsh of course). Nothing wrong with that, it was our way of making a point. Not exactly mutiny, but …
It was, I think, not so sure here, dear Jeremy who said we could easily hit the railway lines from 40 000 feet. What a silly billy he was.
Ponters, I remember Harvey Moore doing something just like this at Cottesmore. He and his crew planned their flight in massive detail from the “Blue Book?” (?) Normally the co-pilot just sucked a couple of figures out of his thumb and made a rough guess at burn-off. I do recall it was a court martial offence (allegedly) to land with less than 8500 lbs. They did a magnificent planning job and found out the Vulcan could fly for quite a long time if you flew for endurance and cruise-climbed etc. So they did it when the opportunity arrived, as you describe. ( I can remember us being pulled out of the bar at Cottesmore to go to Malta for CT one afternoon, “Get the red line up and climbing” was the constant call). But I digress.
Anyway, when they found out Harvey and co were not back on the deck at the normal hour, the whole bunch of wheels were paralytic with fear and rage combined. Some fool at HQBC ordered him to land immediately halfway through the flight, but he pointed out that they were still over the ogwash and might they rather proceed back to base as planned, since they had xxxx hours of fuel left and the seaa looked a bit wet and cold ?
I particularly recall him asking permission for some CT when he pitched up at base after 7 or 8 hours, whatever it was. That was our Harvey all right. Of course the wheels freaked. Many mutters of disciplining him, but he had taken the precaution of filing the route (as required SOP) and his co-pilot (Ed Jarron ???) had plotted the whole trip on the plastic top sheet we use to give to the ops clerk (they never looked at it usually). The AEO had sent standard aireps (Dah dit Dah), but of course, no-one at High Wycombe ever looked at them, so Harvey was in the clear.
Never got past F/O though. I thought he went to Vancouver ?
Ah yes…, talking of memories, does anyone remember the Night of the long Knives at Waddo, was it October 66 ? The whole of No. 1 Group celebrating 50 years or something similar.
The noise when the CAS started to talk …
Scampers arriving smashed to a man... Formidable sight
Thieving the fire hose on the way back ..
Officers trying to cut down the Marquee (Chipperfields ?)
Also, does anyone remember Tony Mitchell deciding to have a quick dekko at Colin Cambell’s crash site at Conniston ? And finding his pic on the front page of the Express next day ? “A slight diversion from track on account of weather , Sir”.
Am I dreaming all this or did it really happen ?
So long ago …
Just a couple of points which have risen from the deepest depths - It was definitely dear Harold (TSR 2) Wilson who threatened to use the V force to bomb Salisbury. I remember the row we had with our squadron boss when we said we would prefer to bomb Cardiff first. ( He was Welsh of course). Nothing wrong with that, it was our way of making a point. Not exactly mutiny, but …
It was, I think, not so sure here, dear Jeremy who said we could easily hit the railway lines from 40 000 feet. What a silly billy he was.
Ponters, I remember Harvey Moore doing something just like this at Cottesmore. He and his crew planned their flight in massive detail from the “Blue Book?” (?) Normally the co-pilot just sucked a couple of figures out of his thumb and made a rough guess at burn-off. I do recall it was a court martial offence (allegedly) to land with less than 8500 lbs. They did a magnificent planning job and found out the Vulcan could fly for quite a long time if you flew for endurance and cruise-climbed etc. So they did it when the opportunity arrived, as you describe. ( I can remember us being pulled out of the bar at Cottesmore to go to Malta for CT one afternoon, “Get the red line up and climbing” was the constant call). But I digress.
Anyway, when they found out Harvey and co were not back on the deck at the normal hour, the whole bunch of wheels were paralytic with fear and rage combined. Some fool at HQBC ordered him to land immediately halfway through the flight, but he pointed out that they were still over the ogwash and might they rather proceed back to base as planned, since they had xxxx hours of fuel left and the seaa looked a bit wet and cold ?
I particularly recall him asking permission for some CT when he pitched up at base after 7 or 8 hours, whatever it was. That was our Harvey all right. Of course the wheels freaked. Many mutters of disciplining him, but he had taken the precaution of filing the route (as required SOP) and his co-pilot (Ed Jarron ???) had plotted the whole trip on the plastic top sheet we use to give to the ops clerk (they never looked at it usually). The AEO had sent standard aireps (Dah dit Dah), but of course, no-one at High Wycombe ever looked at them, so Harvey was in the clear.
Never got past F/O though. I thought he went to Vancouver ?
Ah yes…, talking of memories, does anyone remember the Night of the long Knives at Waddo, was it October 66 ? The whole of No. 1 Group celebrating 50 years or something similar.
The noise when the CAS started to talk …
Scampers arriving smashed to a man... Formidable sight
Thieving the fire hose on the way back ..
Officers trying to cut down the Marquee (Chipperfields ?)
Also, does anyone remember Tony Mitchell deciding to have a quick dekko at Colin Cambell’s crash site at Conniston ? And finding his pic on the front page of the Express next day ? “A slight diversion from track on account of weather , Sir”.
Am I dreaming all this or did it really happen ?
So long ago …
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Then there was the great Waddington food strike. In 1968 the food served up at the Airmen’s Mess was so bad that local pig farmers were refusing their supply of free leftovers. Despite constant complaints over several months, nothing was done until the troops took the matter in hand and organized a food strike. On the day the strike began the cooks stood behind their servery, ready to dole out the customary breakfast of gristle sausages, fried bacon fat and powdered milk and no-one turned up - except for the WRAF’s and RAFP Snoops, as neither group could be trusted to keep their mouths shut. The same happened at each subsequent meal, no-one came to the Mess Hall except to catch the bus out to Line Servicing Squadron. Meanwhile the NAAFI and local hostelries were all doing a roaring trade - being in on the scheme they had plenty of food ready.
The reaction of the authorities was predictable, rather than deal directly with the problem they set the Snoops to work uncovering the ring-leaders. The SIB, being smarter Snoops than anyone ever gave them credit for, sent in undercover men disguised as airmen on posting (easily identified – they weren’t WRAF’s or Snoops yet they ate in the Mess). For several days we were all marched off to the guardroom in rotation, but everyone managed to stick firmly to the story that we weren’t very hungry and didn’t feel like eating. Meanwhile the SIB ‘undercover’ men confirmed the fact that the food was dreadful. For example, they were being served reconstituted dried potato and even rice instead of fresh potatoes due to a supposed potato shortage. In Lincolnshire! In October! I mean, Lincolnshire is Saudi Arabia with potatoes – they stretch out to the horizon as far as the eye can see.
The efforts to uncover the ringleaders stopped and the RAFP transferred their energies to finding out what was happening to the catering funds. It turned out that one of the Caterers, using accomplices in MT, had organized a skimming operation. The ration wagon picked up the food from the regional NAAFI depot and delivered it to local greengrocers and butchers in exchange for rubbish and a share of the profits. The three culprits were court-martialed, convicted and sent off variously to Pentonville or Colchester for brain re-programming. The Airmen’s Mess back at Waddington got a new set of staff and in time developed into the gourmet restaurant it is today, where one must book weeks in advance to get a decent table for luncheon.
The reaction of the authorities was predictable, rather than deal directly with the problem they set the Snoops to work uncovering the ring-leaders. The SIB, being smarter Snoops than anyone ever gave them credit for, sent in undercover men disguised as airmen on posting (easily identified – they weren’t WRAF’s or Snoops yet they ate in the Mess). For several days we were all marched off to the guardroom in rotation, but everyone managed to stick firmly to the story that we weren’t very hungry and didn’t feel like eating. Meanwhile the SIB ‘undercover’ men confirmed the fact that the food was dreadful. For example, they were being served reconstituted dried potato and even rice instead of fresh potatoes due to a supposed potato shortage. In Lincolnshire! In October! I mean, Lincolnshire is Saudi Arabia with potatoes – they stretch out to the horizon as far as the eye can see.
The efforts to uncover the ringleaders stopped and the RAFP transferred their energies to finding out what was happening to the catering funds. It turned out that one of the Caterers, using accomplices in MT, had organized a skimming operation. The ration wagon picked up the food from the regional NAAFI depot and delivered it to local greengrocers and butchers in exchange for rubbish and a share of the profits. The three culprits were court-martialed, convicted and sent off variously to Pentonville or Colchester for brain re-programming. The Airmen’s Mess back at Waddington got a new set of staff and in time developed into the gourmet restaurant it is today, where one must book weeks in advance to get a decent table for luncheon.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blacksheep. We had a similar thing happen at Cottesmore. The airmen’s mess grub wasn’t particularly bad but in 66/67 I went on a Mickey Finn to Leuchars, where it was sheer gourmet.
By coincidence, when I got back to Cottesmore the Hangar Warrant Officer asked me to join the Mess Committee. My first meeting, later that week, was also attended by a shifty Corporal caterer. Bearing in mind that the V Force messing allowance was the highest in the Air Force I asked why Leuchars grub was so much better than ours. Not getting an answer I suggested that shady business was going on and that some toe-rag was creaming-off the goodies. This was long after I’d rejected a career in the Diplomatic Corps.
At this point our shifty Corporal caterer showed signs of severe distress, which was immediately picked up, without comment, by the WO Chairman.
Lo and behold - two days later I’m walking past the mess and there’s old shifty flanked by two RAF plods. Turns out that the Warrant Officer (impressive chap of the old school) was a student of human nature and shifty’s severe distress had rung an alarm bell. The Plods had then dug up his married quarter back garden and unearthed, amongst other stuff, hundreds of chickens old shifty hadn’t been able to flog on.
A month later the unused upper floor of the mess was opened up and a switched on Corporal caterer, recently returned from Changi, was given carte blanche to open a world class Chinese Restaurant. Anyone remember the Cottesmore Cantonese?
A quick follow on from the Cottesmore Cantonese. In the early hours a gang of us would frequently roll up back at Cottesmore after a Brains Trust evening spent in the Blue Cow, South Witham, or the Fox on the A1. Johnny Sharpe was a fairly accomplished rock climber and the vertical brickwork of the airmen’s mess was, to him, a doddle.
We’d sit quietly watching and burping on our several pints of Ruddle’s Best while Johnny ascended to the upper balcony, the door of which was never locked - there no reason to.
Once inside Johnny would creep down to the front door and let us all in, re-securing the door after us.
Quietly into the kitchen where the night shift cooks would see us, for the third time that week, and go ballistic, again. All threats to call the Plods were countered with an explanation of what would happen to the cooks for leaving the mess ‘unsecured’. A truce would be called and the huge joint of roast beef, just out the oven for tomorrow’s lunch, would be requested and produced. My claim was the slightly burnt bits on the edges. Never tasted meat like it since!
Cooks never did find out how we were getting in. The upper floor was still closed then so it never occurred to then that this was our access.
By coincidence, when I got back to Cottesmore the Hangar Warrant Officer asked me to join the Mess Committee. My first meeting, later that week, was also attended by a shifty Corporal caterer. Bearing in mind that the V Force messing allowance was the highest in the Air Force I asked why Leuchars grub was so much better than ours. Not getting an answer I suggested that shady business was going on and that some toe-rag was creaming-off the goodies. This was long after I’d rejected a career in the Diplomatic Corps.
At this point our shifty Corporal caterer showed signs of severe distress, which was immediately picked up, without comment, by the WO Chairman.
Lo and behold - two days later I’m walking past the mess and there’s old shifty flanked by two RAF plods. Turns out that the Warrant Officer (impressive chap of the old school) was a student of human nature and shifty’s severe distress had rung an alarm bell. The Plods had then dug up his married quarter back garden and unearthed, amongst other stuff, hundreds of chickens old shifty hadn’t been able to flog on.
A month later the unused upper floor of the mess was opened up and a switched on Corporal caterer, recently returned from Changi, was given carte blanche to open a world class Chinese Restaurant. Anyone remember the Cottesmore Cantonese?
A quick follow on from the Cottesmore Cantonese. In the early hours a gang of us would frequently roll up back at Cottesmore after a Brains Trust evening spent in the Blue Cow, South Witham, or the Fox on the A1. Johnny Sharpe was a fairly accomplished rock climber and the vertical brickwork of the airmen’s mess was, to him, a doddle.
We’d sit quietly watching and burping on our several pints of Ruddle’s Best while Johnny ascended to the upper balcony, the door of which was never locked - there no reason to.
Once inside Johnny would creep down to the front door and let us all in, re-securing the door after us.
Quietly into the kitchen where the night shift cooks would see us, for the third time that week, and go ballistic, again. All threats to call the Plods were countered with an explanation of what would happen to the cooks for leaving the mess ‘unsecured’. A truce would be called and the huge joint of roast beef, just out the oven for tomorrow’s lunch, would be requested and produced. My claim was the slightly burnt bits on the edges. Never tasted meat like it since!
Cooks never did find out how we were getting in. The upper floor was still closed then so it never occurred to then that this was our access.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Dronkie,
'fraid the old grey matter is a bit rusty.
Harvey was on 44. I flew a Western Ranger with him in 68. The Jan Mayen trip was in 67, 7hr 15. I have had this confirmed by his nav rad a couple of days ago.
Ed Jarron was at Cottesmore but by 68 he was in Russia as Asst AA.
The Malcolm Campbell incident was Don Dale. He was threatened with court martial for illegal low flying. His real offence was pissing off the brass who hadn't though of the idea and were embarrassed by the praise heaped on 'A lone Vulcan pays a personal tribute'. The court martial would have failed because:
1. The rules required that the aircraft fly within 1.5 nm of track on 95% of occasions. Windermere was off track but less than 5% of the time.
2. He wasn't low flying. He was at 2,000 feet.
BTW, he was on 12 Sqn.
Blacksheep,
Do you remember the old plate wash in the airmen's mess? One to get the plate clean and one to sterelise it. Handy for sick quarters too when you got scalded?
I remember when all the airmen had to return their KFS and plate and get them handed out when they went to eat.
Day 1, all the KFS and plates were dished out.
Day 2, the remaining stocks of KFS were dished out.
Day 3 the airmen's mess had run out.
All the scalies had hung on to the freebees and did not believe the brass when they were told that it would all be washed in the mess for them. After a succession of tannoys, and probably shake downs by Paddy Cowaps men the KFS were returned to the mess.
A Civilian,
If you are still waiting for a reply. the F3 can handle a supersonic high flyer with ease. Just sling an AMRAAM or 2 at it and go for the next one.
'fraid the old grey matter is a bit rusty.
Harvey was on 44. I flew a Western Ranger with him in 68. The Jan Mayen trip was in 67, 7hr 15. I have had this confirmed by his nav rad a couple of days ago.
Ed Jarron was at Cottesmore but by 68 he was in Russia as Asst AA.
The Malcolm Campbell incident was Don Dale. He was threatened with court martial for illegal low flying. His real offence was pissing off the brass who hadn't though of the idea and were embarrassed by the praise heaped on 'A lone Vulcan pays a personal tribute'. The court martial would have failed because:
1. The rules required that the aircraft fly within 1.5 nm of track on 95% of occasions. Windermere was off track but less than 5% of the time.
2. He wasn't low flying. He was at 2,000 feet.
BTW, he was on 12 Sqn.
Blacksheep,
Do you remember the old plate wash in the airmen's mess? One to get the plate clean and one to sterelise it. Handy for sick quarters too when you got scalded?
I remember when all the airmen had to return their KFS and plate and get them handed out when they went to eat.
Day 1, all the KFS and plates were dished out.
Day 2, the remaining stocks of KFS were dished out.
Day 3 the airmen's mess had run out.
All the scalies had hung on to the freebees and did not believe the brass when they were told that it would all be washed in the mess for them. After a succession of tannoys, and probably shake downs by Paddy Cowaps men the KFS were returned to the mess.
A Civilian,
If you are still waiting for a reply. the F3 can handle a supersonic high flyer with ease. Just sling an AMRAAM or 2 at it and go for the next one.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Karup, Denmark
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a reminder:
The old 007-movie "Thunderball" (released 1965) has got some Vulcan-footage. A plane and two nuclear bombs are stolen.
Sean Connery remains the real "Bond - James Bond"!
Best regards
The old 007-movie "Thunderball" (released 1965) has got some Vulcan-footage. A plane and two nuclear bombs are stolen.
Sean Connery remains the real "Bond - James Bond"!
Best regards
Last edited by normally left blank; 16th Feb 2004 at 23:10.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don Dale
Pontius Nav
I presume you mean this Don Dale:
No 27 Squadron executives 1975. Sqn Ldr Ron Leighton (Nav Ldr), Sqn Ldr Don Dale (Plt Ldr), Wg Cdr Bobby Robson (OC), Sqn Ldr John Porter (OC A Flt), Sqn Ldr Pete West (AEO Ldr) and Sqn Ldr Ian Calder (Rad Ldr).
I first knew him when he was on the staff at Sleaford Tech.
Alamo
Vulcans in Camera
I presume you mean this Don Dale:
No 27 Squadron executives 1975. Sqn Ldr Ron Leighton (Nav Ldr), Sqn Ldr Don Dale (Plt Ldr), Wg Cdr Bobby Robson (OC), Sqn Ldr John Porter (OC A Flt), Sqn Ldr Pete West (AEO Ldr) and Sqn Ldr Ian Calder (Rad Ldr).
I first knew him when he was on the staff at Sleaford Tech.
Alamo
Vulcans in Camera