Rothmans Aerobatic Team (& Others)
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G-BGSD
I found this thread by chance today, excellent reading. I got interested in the Rothmans' history since I bought Pitts S-2A s/n 2195, F-BYAJ, ex G-BGSD, in 1999. To my knowledge this is the only S-2A still in the RAT colours, without the "Rothmans" letters though. Unfortunately I only have the logbooks since the plane was registered in France in 1982, so I don't know much about her adventures with the RAT.
The plane is based near Toulouse, in the Southwest of France, and we teach aeros and occasionally participate in local contests and airshows. I'd be happy to offer a ride to any ex-Rothmans pilot in exchange for some stories.
For those of you interested in the whereabouts of the planes, another ex-Rothmans S-2A, F-GIIZ, ex G-BDKS, is based in Marmande, between Toulouse and Bordeaux.
The plane is based near Toulouse, in the Southwest of France, and we teach aeros and occasionally participate in local contests and airshows. I'd be happy to offer a ride to any ex-Rothmans pilot in exchange for some stories.
For those of you interested in the whereabouts of the planes, another ex-Rothmans S-2A, F-GIIZ, ex G-BDKS, is based in Marmande, between Toulouse and Bordeaux.
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A friend tells me that BADZ is still at Exeter - tucked away at the back of a hangar with fabric stripped off. He told me that he had a whale of a time ripping off the Rothman's livery with a Stanley knife ready for a new life.
Unfortunately the initial enthusiasm for the rebuild swiftly died off, and nothing has happened to it for some years now.
Unfortunately the initial enthusiasm for the rebuild swiftly died off, and nothing has happened to it for some years now.
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Sad to hear of BADZ being in such a sad state. I think that was Manx Kelly's mount, when they changed from Stampes to Pitts in the early 70s. I certainly flew it several times, though my regular aircraft was BADX in the year I was with the team. Happy, and far off, days. Any chance of it flying again?
Thanks BYAG for the offer if I ever get to France again; doubtful though, and I'm not sure I could get into a Pitts these days!
Thanks BYAG for the offer if I ever get to France again; doubtful though, and I'm not sure I could get into a Pitts these days!
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Tim,
If memory serves me it was BADX that George crashed in Lanzarote. It remained there and we flew what was left of dear old George home.
Sorry to be the bringer of bad tidings....
If memory serves me it was BADX that George crashed in Lanzarote. It remained there and we flew what was left of dear old George home.
Sorry to be the bringer of bad tidings....
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Hi again
BADX crashed in Lanzarotte, it was the first ever air crash on the island. needless to say they were a little unprepared for it. It wouldn't have made any difference, George was well dead. I was the first team member at the scene, having persuaded the Fire Crew that this was for real and not part of the act, I jumped in the fire wagon with them and headed for the crash site just outside the airport perimeter at the end of the runway.
Richard Butler phoned me today, he just found the site, apparently Bob Thomson put him on to it. For those who don't know Richard was the tour manager for the team and came everywhere with us, it was great to hear from him and I hope he can get up to see me sometime, now that he's 'retarded', His words, not mine!
Hopefully this is going to be the start of 'The Book' !!! , so when you have read this far, Richard, get writing and let's see some of those millions of pictures you took!
Talking of pictures, does anyone know how to get the pictures back on the thread??? There must be a competant sole out there so please do us a big favour, somebody, please!
Rgs. to all, BOB.
Richard Butler phoned me today, he just found the site, apparently Bob Thomson put him on to it. For those who don't know Richard was the tour manager for the team and came everywhere with us, it was great to hear from him and I hope he can get up to see me sometime, now that he's 'retarded', His words, not mine!
Hopefully this is going to be the start of 'The Book' !!! , so when you have read this far, Richard, get writing and let's see some of those millions of pictures you took!
Talking of pictures, does anyone know how to get the pictures back on the thread??? There must be a competant sole out there so please do us a big favour, somebody, please!
Rgs. to all, BOB.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Bob, thanks for the reminder... I have the pics (I hope) and the know how...
Bob's pics now back on this post - I will try and locate Aerohack's images from earlier in the thread, which are safely backe-up at work!
Aerohack's images now on line again at this post for anyone who missed 'em...
Now if I could just locate Milt's V-Force pic for BEagle's "Did you fly the tin triangle" thread of on Mil....
Bob's pics now back on this post - I will try and locate Aerohack's images from earlier in the thread, which are safely backe-up at work!
Aerohack's images now on line again at this post for anyone who missed 'em...
Now if I could just locate Milt's V-Force pic for BEagle's "Did you fly the tin triangle" thread of on Mil....
Last edited by treadigraph; 24th Apr 2007 at 18:20. Reason: Photo links in earlier threads updated.
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Time to get together?
Mike Edwards (Marcus' son) and I are hatching a small but cunning plan. At the moment it is some eleven hours old having been born in 'The Cave' in Singapore in the early hours.
We are musing over a 'RATs of All Time' get together, probably somewhere like Booker for dinner and drinks. The format of the evening is by no means set and we are taking suggestions.
Questions rotate around the following. Is this a good idea? - and if it is......
Q/ Would this be a quiet social evening for just former team members or should it be (reasonably) open?
Q/ Should we tack a mini fly-in to it?
Q/ Should it be formal, based around a swimming pool or just be a 'renting party' with old flying suits only - freshly laundered?
Q/ Should we invite anyone specially?
Q/ Should we include an mini air display as part of the occasion?
Q/ Should we have the event timed to coincide with an air display?
Q/ Can you think of any other questions that might be pertinent?
ps: Some of these questions are intentionally rhetorical.
We might have communicated this suggestion privately but as this thread has it's own legs, I thought it would be fun to make the questions open and see what came back. Also we don't have contact details for all the personalities concerned.
Fire away!
Suggestions, here (it will be fun for us all to read them) and/or to my email here [email protected]
My Blog - post related
We are musing over a 'RATs of All Time' get together, probably somewhere like Booker for dinner and drinks. The format of the evening is by no means set and we are taking suggestions.
Questions rotate around the following. Is this a good idea? - and if it is......
Q/ Would this be a quiet social evening for just former team members or should it be (reasonably) open?
Q/ Should we tack a mini fly-in to it?
Q/ Should it be formal, based around a swimming pool or just be a 'renting party' with old flying suits only - freshly laundered?
Q/ Should we invite anyone specially?
Q/ Should we include an mini air display as part of the occasion?
Q/ Should we have the event timed to coincide with an air display?
Q/ Can you think of any other questions that might be pertinent?
ps: Some of these questions are intentionally rhetorical.
We might have communicated this suggestion privately but as this thread has it's own legs, I thought it would be fun to make the questions open and see what came back. Also we don't have contact details for all the personalities concerned.
Fire away!
Suggestions, here (it will be fun for us all to read them) and/or to my email here [email protected]
My Blog - post related
Last edited by hotstart54; 27th Apr 2007 at 09:16.
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RAT's of all time get together
If you did something like this to include a Pitts fly-in you would probably see rows of Pittses turn up.
White Waltham would be a great place to do it as both a social and flying venue. You can aerobat in the overhead at WW too...
If you did something like this to include a Pitts fly-in you would probably see rows of Pittses turn up.
White Waltham would be a great place to do it as both a social and flying venue. You can aerobat in the overhead at WW too...
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Yep, I agree. WW would make a better venue. Not as historic to the team but certainly more practical for 'activities.' The clubhouse and restaurant are preety good too as I remember.
Awesome but Affordable
Norman,
Sounds a great idea. Count me in. I would go along with whatever the majority prefer but tend towards White Waltham as a venue.
Cheers,
Trapper 69 - Blue 2 (1971 season)
Sounds a great idea. Count me in. I would go along with whatever the majority prefer but tend towards White Waltham as a venue.
Cheers,
Trapper 69 - Blue 2 (1971 season)
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TF, you're on the list. I took down your details from your website.
Mike and I have been talking a little more about the plan. WW does look a far better venue. A number of other ideas in the pot. It is a shame that we didn't do this when I first suggested it to you, do you recall? It must have been fifteen years ago.
If anyone wants to be included please email me and I will add you to a block email 'Newsletter.'
[email protected]
Mike and I have been talking a little more about the plan. WW does look a far better venue. A number of other ideas in the pot. It is a shame that we didn't do this when I first suggested it to you, do you recall? It must have been fifteen years ago.
If anyone wants to be included please email me and I will add you to a block email 'Newsletter.'
[email protected]
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Perhaps we could go commercial and get Rothmans to help pay for the gig. It's got to be worth some publicity somewhere, surely?
As for how big the gig should be, I think 'all of the above' should about cover it!
"We're not advertising cigarettes, your Honour, we're having a reunion party, surely the laws on advertising fags don't extend to having a party?, for gods sake......Ciggy, sorry, Rothmans anyone?"
As for how big the gig should be, I think 'all of the above' should about cover it!
"We're not advertising cigarettes, your Honour, we're having a reunion party, surely the laws on advertising fags don't extend to having a party?, for gods sake......Ciggy, sorry, Rothmans anyone?"
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Yes, Bob, we might be able to get Rothmans to stump up some cash. Trouble is, they might want to control the venue and conduct of the evening, do we want that as this is essentally about people, our people and not cigarettes.
Maybe they would send the money as a goodwill gesture and accept whatever happens in good spirit?
In short, yes a god idea that needs investigating.
Keeping well I hope Bob?
Maybe they would send the money as a goodwill gesture and accept whatever happens in good spirit?
In short, yes a god idea that needs investigating.
Keeping well I hope Bob?
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Hi All,
Great idea Norman - count me in. WW sounds good - even better with a Pitts fly-in. This is the first worthy excuse I've had to leave Turkey and visit UK since I left 3 years ago. Haven't been to WW since we operated the '79 Farnboro' displays out of there. That was the year that Sea Harriers melted tarmac on the active R/W and BA Concorde was asked to modify his display touch and go to a low approach. We sat in our hold waiting to tip in for our display listening to the whinings of BA Captainspeaking - he insisted that the commentator made it clear to the assembled masses that it would be a deliberate 'missed approach'. Needless to say he cocked it up and planted his Concorde firmly in the soft and sticky hole, writing off quite a few tyres in the process I believe.
All the best,
Rod
Great idea Norman - count me in. WW sounds good - even better with a Pitts fly-in. This is the first worthy excuse I've had to leave Turkey and visit UK since I left 3 years ago. Haven't been to WW since we operated the '79 Farnboro' displays out of there. That was the year that Sea Harriers melted tarmac on the active R/W and BA Concorde was asked to modify his display touch and go to a low approach. We sat in our hold waiting to tip in for our display listening to the whinings of BA Captainspeaking - he insisted that the commentator made it clear to the assembled masses that it would be a deliberate 'missed approach'. Needless to say he cocked it up and planted his Concorde firmly in the soft and sticky hole, writing off quite a few tyres in the process I believe.
All the best,
Rod
Last edited by rodthesod; 30th Apr 2007 at 10:13. Reason: typo
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Whato' Rod,
Good to see you haven't burnt to a frazzle out there now been blown away with your kite. When would suit you (everyone) best? September any good?
WW is starting to look favorite I think.
Added later:
With the way this is shaping, this get together is going to happen in 2008.
Good to see you haven't burnt to a frazzle out there now been blown away with your kite. When would suit you (everyone) best? September any good?
WW is starting to look favorite I think.
Added later:
With the way this is shaping, this get together is going to happen in 2008.
Last edited by hotstart54; 1st May 2007 at 09:19.
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Marcus Edwards's number 2 son here. As Norman has written, we met up, then operated back from Singapore together. The party/p**s up sounds like a great idea. Spoke to Bob Lee and he sugests trying to link it to an existing airshow.
Any stories about the old man are gratefully recieved at [email protected] and remember, after many thousands of hours listen to Marcus's stories, I know dits about all of you!
A few points I remember to clear up a few lose ends. Bob T and Marcus set up the Jubliee Duo in 1977 (the Queens Silver jubilee) with 2 S2As, (any pics? Interesting colour schemes!). They were as much surpised as anyone when Rothmans awarded them the contract to re-form the team. Bob led for the first year with Marcus as number 2. Bob's back (injured after leaving a JP I believe) led him to take more of a managers postion. Marcus then led the team till 1980 when it finished. Bob set up the second team, which Mike Cairns led.
George Smith died on the arrival routine. On the up burst, Marcus pushed out one way and George the other. Both then spun off height and then into land. Dad said he looked across when he recovered to watch George continue in. I believe it was then BECM was bought in as a replacement. Mike Findlay was called out of a semi rebuilt cottage in France and after 1 day in the Pitts was display ready.
On the return after the tour, Marcus put BADZ upside down in a field as told earlier. I still have the fabric reg which was on the team crew room wall. On the top read, Oats beets and Barly sortie. M Edwards. I know his spin on the story too!
When Marcus took the lead, he took BDKS as his mount. Being the least powerfull aircraft, it made the best lead. There was some inter change of aircraft with team 2 towards the end and he did use RKSF.
The slow roll in wedge (no 5 inverted over 4) was a sight to see. I know that dad didn't actually slow roll but did a tight inverted barrel roll to avoid the bomb burst talked about earlier. 1980 was the end of the team. Marcus and John Maclean bought BDKS and BECM to set up the Vixen Two. Marcus based in Cardiff and John in Bodmin(they would arrange a time and place and height to meet then fly on to the display). Andy Wallbridge got BADY and did instruction on it at Blackpool. After a few good years on the cct they decided to train Andy up in the third slot. On the last practice they had a mid air. I know the details but not the cause. Marcus continued for another couple of years. For a 2 ship, a second Pitts was borrowed and Dai Heather Hays flew it. Finally KS was sold. By this time I had graduated from urchin, through ground crew to ferry pilot. I flew KS on it's last flight to Bristol with Marcus in the front. After the departing beat up at Cardiff we were asked by ATC "Did you mean to do that?"
Any stories about the old man are gratefully recieved at [email protected] and remember, after many thousands of hours listen to Marcus's stories, I know dits about all of you!
A few points I remember to clear up a few lose ends. Bob T and Marcus set up the Jubliee Duo in 1977 (the Queens Silver jubilee) with 2 S2As, (any pics? Interesting colour schemes!). They were as much surpised as anyone when Rothmans awarded them the contract to re-form the team. Bob led for the first year with Marcus as number 2. Bob's back (injured after leaving a JP I believe) led him to take more of a managers postion. Marcus then led the team till 1980 when it finished. Bob set up the second team, which Mike Cairns led.
George Smith died on the arrival routine. On the up burst, Marcus pushed out one way and George the other. Both then spun off height and then into land. Dad said he looked across when he recovered to watch George continue in. I believe it was then BECM was bought in as a replacement. Mike Findlay was called out of a semi rebuilt cottage in France and after 1 day in the Pitts was display ready.
On the return after the tour, Marcus put BADZ upside down in a field as told earlier. I still have the fabric reg which was on the team crew room wall. On the top read, Oats beets and Barly sortie. M Edwards. I know his spin on the story too!
When Marcus took the lead, he took BDKS as his mount. Being the least powerfull aircraft, it made the best lead. There was some inter change of aircraft with team 2 towards the end and he did use RKSF.
The slow roll in wedge (no 5 inverted over 4) was a sight to see. I know that dad didn't actually slow roll but did a tight inverted barrel roll to avoid the bomb burst talked about earlier. 1980 was the end of the team. Marcus and John Maclean bought BDKS and BECM to set up the Vixen Two. Marcus based in Cardiff and John in Bodmin(they would arrange a time and place and height to meet then fly on to the display). Andy Wallbridge got BADY and did instruction on it at Blackpool. After a few good years on the cct they decided to train Andy up in the third slot. On the last practice they had a mid air. I know the details but not the cause. Marcus continued for another couple of years. For a 2 ship, a second Pitts was borrowed and Dai Heather Hays flew it. Finally KS was sold. By this time I had graduated from urchin, through ground crew to ferry pilot. I flew KS on it's last flight to Bristol with Marcus in the front. After the departing beat up at Cardiff we were asked by ATC "Did you mean to do that?"
Last edited by Big Jugs!; 22nd May 2007 at 19:22.
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RATs
Hi guys
One Nick Wakefield, who understands these electronic gizzmos, has introduced me to this site. I think I have logged into it - but then I have often thought I'd achieved something on a computer only to have it fold its arms and stare back at me blankly. So I hope this works.
May I come to a RAT re-union, please? A private party at WW sounds a great idea for starters.
I am still - if nothing has changed - in rather tenuous contact with Al Dix. Al had a bad accident - horse-riding, would you believe - a few years back, and has not flown since.
Best to all
Dwarf Rat
One Nick Wakefield, who understands these electronic gizzmos, has introduced me to this site. I think I have logged into it - but then I have often thought I'd achieved something on a computer only to have it fold its arms and stare back at me blankly. So I hope this works.
May I come to a RAT re-union, please? A private party at WW sounds a great idea for starters.
I am still - if nothing has changed - in rather tenuous contact with Al Dix. Al had a bad accident - horse-riding, would you believe - a few years back, and has not flown since.
Best to all
Dwarf Rat
