The Concorde thread (Don't start a separate one!)
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24th October -Chaos at Heathrow?
Just saw this on our company intranet, apparently lifted from another site. Looks like LHR will be the place to aviod next week....
Final Concorde flight: public urged to stay away
Concorde enthusiasts are being warned not turn up at Heathrow for the supersonic aircraft's final flight.
The Metropolitan Police and BAA Heathrow are strongly advising members of the public to stay away because the London airport has not got the space, reported Ananova.
A joint statement warned: "There are only very limited viewing facilities on the north side of the airport and the general public should not expect to be accommodated by turning up on the day."
Concorde's last commercial flight on October 24 coincides with many school half-term holidays and is expected to be one of the airport's busiest days of the year.
There will be no vantage points for spectators within the central terminal area. Anyone using this area as a look out will be moved on by police who will also be watching out for people parking illegally.
The spectators' viewing area remains closed on Department for Transport advice, as will the car park roofs.
There will be no special parking arrangements available and existing car parks are already heavily used.
BAA Heathrow is looking at implementing traffic and other limitations to ensure public safety.
Final Concorde flight: public urged to stay away
Concorde enthusiasts are being warned not turn up at Heathrow for the supersonic aircraft's final flight.
The Metropolitan Police and BAA Heathrow are strongly advising members of the public to stay away because the London airport has not got the space, reported Ananova.
A joint statement warned: "There are only very limited viewing facilities on the north side of the airport and the general public should not expect to be accommodated by turning up on the day."
Concorde's last commercial flight on October 24 coincides with many school half-term holidays and is expected to be one of the airport's busiest days of the year.
There will be no vantage points for spectators within the central terminal area. Anyone using this area as a look out will be moved on by police who will also be watching out for people parking illegally.
The spectators' viewing area remains closed on Department for Transport advice, as will the car park roofs.
There will be no special parking arrangements available and existing car parks are already heavily used.
BAA Heathrow is looking at implementing traffic and other limitations to ensure public safety.
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Ah, yes, aviation enthusiasts and aeroplane lovers all over the world are just such terrorists aren't they?
The hobbies of aeroplane spotting and taking photos of aeroplanes have been torn apart by the security fascists in America and Europe in their empire building schemes to justify the kind of disgusting behaviour being dished out to some aeroplane enthusiasts.
Remember, the actions of September 11th were not carried out by spotters and enthusiasts but by some fare paying terrorist pilot passengers screened at U. S. airports by the creme de la creme of U. S. airport security intellingenstsia.
The hobbies of aeroplane spotting and taking photos of aeroplanes have been torn apart by the security fascists in America and Europe in their empire building schemes to justify the kind of disgusting behaviour being dished out to some aeroplane enthusiasts.
Remember, the actions of September 11th were not carried out by spotters and enthusiasts but by some fare paying terrorist pilot passengers screened at U. S. airports by the creme de la creme of U. S. airport security intellingenstsia.
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Really annoying, and totally pointless. Is it that BA/LHR bods can't understand enthusiasts point of view, or do they have some kind of intelligence that we don't? I can understand wanting to keep congestion down - I wouldn't want my journey delayed by spotters, but would it really be such a bad PR move to let the spectators in? Security point on the roof viewing gallery for instance?
Incidentally, the roof platform security is a laugh. Went up there last December and no-one batted an eyelid.
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Couple of months back I went to the top floor of the car park at Terminal 3 for a bit of viewing as I had several hours to kill, not knowing about the signs that are there now saying 'leave the area immediately'. In fact, I stayed half an hour or so - no-one batted an eyelid then either.
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GCC - won't be that way on the 24th unfortunately.
I would suggest to anyone wanting to go:
Don't drive. Really no - the best use for the inner roads will be for spectators, potentially forcing essential airport traffic further out. Spectator vehicles in the area will frustrate things for everyone - the people coming to watch, those who've come to catch a flight, and the normal stuff that has to shuttle around to make the airport work.
Instead, take the tube to Hatton Cross and work it out from there (theoretically you could take a bus, but plan on a 30 minute+ walk round to the perimeter by the North runway. Definitely skip the idea of going to the terminals - by tube, heathrow express or whatever - they're pretty rubbish for views anyway, and the plod will be out in force to stop it going silly.
Expect the view from the perimeter to be a bit limited. The screens on the fence will be problematic, but you may still get to see some action before the flare and roll. The earliest of birds might get a seat in some limited grandstand seating, but the as-likely limited scale of it (or any special arrangements like tickets) is not public domain yet.
If you want a convenient 30 mins of nice aircraft views, then BBC2 is probably the place to be.
But if - like many of us - you really feel you have to be there, then set the video recorder and get down there. You may walk away feeling like you've gone travelled afar to watch your favourite team lose the championship, but there isn't an alternative. And who knows, the Met + BAA just might make it work, albeit crudely, for the spectators taking their chance.
I would suggest to anyone wanting to go:
Don't drive. Really no - the best use for the inner roads will be for spectators, potentially forcing essential airport traffic further out. Spectator vehicles in the area will frustrate things for everyone - the people coming to watch, those who've come to catch a flight, and the normal stuff that has to shuttle around to make the airport work.
Instead, take the tube to Hatton Cross and work it out from there (theoretically you could take a bus, but plan on a 30 minute+ walk round to the perimeter by the North runway. Definitely skip the idea of going to the terminals - by tube, heathrow express or whatever - they're pretty rubbish for views anyway, and the plod will be out in force to stop it going silly.
Expect the view from the perimeter to be a bit limited. The screens on the fence will be problematic, but you may still get to see some action before the flare and roll. The earliest of birds might get a seat in some limited grandstand seating, but the as-likely limited scale of it (or any special arrangements like tickets) is not public domain yet.
If you want a convenient 30 mins of nice aircraft views, then BBC2 is probably the place to be.
But if - like many of us - you really feel you have to be there, then set the video recorder and get down there. You may walk away feeling like you've gone travelled afar to watch your favourite team lose the championship, but there isn't an alternative. And who knows, the Met + BAA just might make it work, albeit crudely, for the spectators taking their chance.
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It seems that between BA and BAA there is a mighty cock-up waiting to happen.
1.) Because BA have decided to retire her on the Friday of October half-term, historically the busiest travel day of the year. (Remember the times they've had to close T1 due to overcrowding?). But this year, not only will the world and his wife be heading towards LHR, the cousins and grandparents will be as well!
2.) BAA have only suddenly realised that there are a number of people in the UK who actually care that this country's significant contribution to the history of commercial aviation is having its swansong. So they've come up with a half-cocked plan to allocate 1000 viewing seats to lucky members of the public.......as if it's some sort of Ryder Cup final match. So what are the other 249,000 people supposed to do?
I hope the day goes well, as I'm planning to be there. But I'd advise (along with others) to take some sort of concrete ground transport......tube, Heathrow Express etc. Not a car as you'll never get parked and you'll get stuck in traffic.
(Personally, I plan to fly in and fly out.)
1.) Because BA have decided to retire her on the Friday of October half-term, historically the busiest travel day of the year. (Remember the times they've had to close T1 due to overcrowding?). But this year, not only will the world and his wife be heading towards LHR, the cousins and grandparents will be as well!
2.) BAA have only suddenly realised that there are a number of people in the UK who actually care that this country's significant contribution to the history of commercial aviation is having its swansong. So they've come up with a half-cocked plan to allocate 1000 viewing seats to lucky members of the public.......as if it's some sort of Ryder Cup final match. So what are the other 249,000 people supposed to do?
I hope the day goes well, as I'm planning to be there. But I'd advise (along with others) to take some sort of concrete ground transport......tube, Heathrow Express etc. Not a car as you'll never get parked and you'll get stuck in traffic.
(Personally, I plan to fly in and fly out.)
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I have to say I agree with Tom about the provision of enthusiasts facilities; personally, much as I admire the aircraft, I wouldn't go out of my way to see Concorde, but generally, the failure to provide enthusiasts facilities is very much an obstacle to effective security. There will always be enthusiasts and it is stupid of the DFTR to think otherwise or to think they just won't come; they will and they will just find other vantage points which only makes it more difficult for those entrusted with security.
I intend to raise this matter with the Commons Select Cttee on Transport, because it's really not good enough; security, to be effective, needs to be focused.
I intend to raise this matter with the Commons Select Cttee on Transport, because it's really not good enough; security, to be effective, needs to be focused.
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Shame the attitude towards what will be such a memorable event seems so typically British. Always keen to knock all the things that should keep the Great in Gt. Britain.
Still, there will be some departures to view and I wonder how many will go to Filton on 031117 to see the final touchdown.
Birmingham would appear to be doing its best for the locals to come and see the last visit. See www.bhx.co.uk
I understand the aircraft will be taxied past the viewing area on arr. and dep. irrespective of Rwy in use.
I guess these "farewell" visits will be tame with not so much as a Low Level pass..............
Still, there will be some departures to view and I wonder how many will go to Filton on 031117 to see the final touchdown.
Birmingham would appear to be doing its best for the locals to come and see the last visit. See www.bhx.co.uk
I understand the aircraft will be taxied past the viewing area on arr. and dep. irrespective of Rwy in use.
I guess these "farewell" visits will be tame with not so much as a Low Level pass..............
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24th OCTOBER
23rd OCTOBER final revenue departure should also generate loads of specatotors for the outbound BA001 LHR-JFK 1845LT.
There is a lot of talk about this amongst the fraternity for both days and utter chaos and crowds are already being mentioned.
And whats this about a grandstand being errected near the Colnbrook part of Stanwell Moor Road????
All BAA have offered to do is for people to go to the visitor centre, what use is this if Concorde lands on 27L or 09R (like this weeks easterlies!!). You might bet your bottom dollar BAA will do nothing helpful to give her a good send off or do much to accomodate those wishing to travel far & wide to see her final flight.
Those coming to pay their respect will come and come in number.
If you have sense, you must try to come by public transport as parking around runway ends and permiter roads is a nightmare and virtually non existant.
The thing is, whoever is on the left seat or in charge in the tower on the day may way dissapoint a lot of people if a last minute decision to change runways is made! that would be fun (not..)
Should be an interesting couple of days.
Let the crowds gather !
There is a lot of talk about this amongst the fraternity for both days and utter chaos and crowds are already being mentioned.
And whats this about a grandstand being errected near the Colnbrook part of Stanwell Moor Road????
All BAA have offered to do is for people to go to the visitor centre, what use is this if Concorde lands on 27L or 09R (like this weeks easterlies!!). You might bet your bottom dollar BAA will do nothing helpful to give her a good send off or do much to accomodate those wishing to travel far & wide to see her final flight.
Those coming to pay their respect will come and come in number.
If you have sense, you must try to come by public transport as parking around runway ends and permiter roads is a nightmare and virtually non existant.
The thing is, whoever is on the left seat or in charge in the tower on the day may way dissapoint a lot of people if a last minute decision to change runways is made! that would be fun (not..)
Should be an interesting couple of days.
Let the crowds gather !
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They ought to put the Manchester guys in charge - they have realised (as happened for the Champions League Final) that a huge number of extra spectators will be around, and have planned to accomodate them with extra capacity at the Viewing Park. They are not a charity, so I imagine they made sufficient profit on the Champions League effort to demonstrate that doing this is a commerically sensible move, as well as getting all the spectators in a controlled area, out of the way of regular passengers.
This particular case is not a spotters issue, as Concorde generates such interest in the public generally that I suspect that spotters will be a minority at LHR on the 24th. These days a sensible aviation company would leap at the opportunity for good publicity....
Given that BAA are normally not backwards in trying to make a few quid from airport visitors I'm amazed that they haven't tendered for a 3rd party to run the viewing facilities on a regular basis - Frankfurt do it in a secure manner, charge a reasonable sum, make a profit from it, and are one of the biggest tourist attractions in Germany. Anyone with any funds to put together a business proposition? I would do it, but I'm taking on a mortgage today to that makes my eyes water!!
This particular case is not a spotters issue, as Concorde generates such interest in the public generally that I suspect that spotters will be a minority at LHR on the 24th. These days a sensible aviation company would leap at the opportunity for good publicity....
Given that BAA are normally not backwards in trying to make a few quid from airport visitors I'm amazed that they haven't tendered for a 3rd party to run the viewing facilities on a regular basis - Frankfurt do it in a secure manner, charge a reasonable sum, make a profit from it, and are one of the biggest tourist attractions in Germany. Anyone with any funds to put together a business proposition? I would do it, but I'm taking on a mortgage today to that makes my eyes water!!
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Don't understand the thinking on blocking car park roofs, etc. for security on an event like this. If there are a few hundred enthusiasts at any particular point how would some terrorist pull their SAM out of whatever holdall, lift to shoulder, acquire and fire without anyone - let alone the plod - seeing them. These things aren't small.
If they want to do a suicide bomb explosion why choose a roof not inside the terminal.
Daft, really!
If they want to do a suicide bomb explosion why choose a roof not inside the terminal.
Daft, really!
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It seems like the manegment of London Heathrow keeps saying that it welcomes plane spotters, but currently it seems that there are few facillitys to maintain spotters. And if they insist that they ignore the last flight of Concorde is ridicules. I understand that there are safety concerns but they have closed so many sites but have not opend any.
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All of a sudden, I'm feeling rather happy I'm going to be at EDI on the 24th rather than at LHR. That is unless BAA try and do something stupid with respect to the crowds that are likley to be there.
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Jordan
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The thing is, whoever is on the left seat or in charge in the tower on the day may way dissapoint a lot of people if a last minute decision to change runways is made! that would be fun (not..)
If I had a dollar for the number of times I have skipped off the M25 on my way to West Drayton on a weekend and met a throng of people parked on the footpath/road under the 09L threshold when we're landing easterlies. And some of the parking efforts are down-right dangerous. Mixed in with the T5 work and road work going on at the moment, that end of the airport is asking for trouble!
And, I agree it sucks the viewing gallery on top of the Queen's Building is still closed, but this is going to be one of the busiest days we have had! As BahrainLad mentioned, T1 has been closed in the past due to congestion. Guarenteed the roads about are going to be gridlocked with passengers already.........as much as I hate to say it, I don't want to be anywhere near the place. I'll be sitting in a pub somewhere, recalling ky own fond memories (and if we are easterlies, it'll be in Windsor!)
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Story at work is that BA want to use the northern runway whatever config we're on.
I have visions of all the TC/LL Tower ATCOs coming in for the afternoon shift getting stuck in traffic, unable to make it in, therefore six mile spacing due lack of staff, big inbound delays, and all three Concordes (assuming BA can get three flying at the same time?!), diverting to Stansted or Gatwick!
I have visions of all the TC/LL Tower ATCOs coming in for the afternoon shift getting stuck in traffic, unable to make it in, therefore six mile spacing due lack of staff, big inbound delays, and all three Concordes (assuming BA can get three flying at the same time?!), diverting to Stansted or Gatwick!
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Gridlock......lack of staff.....hey, didn't the BBC make a "mock-umentary" about this?
Seriously though and not making light of the carnage that awaits and it will be, that pub in Windsor sounds better and better.
Seriously though and not making light of the carnage that awaits and it will be, that pub in Windsor sounds better and better.
Supposed to be coming in to LHR to go work that afternoon, I wonder how much time to allow, perhaps I might just bring my sleeping bag in the previous day and not bother going home!.
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As I understand it there is a window of around 20 minutes in which all 3 will be landing. This will be around 1700 is what I have been told but he who should know. But he has been wrong before.
As for being in the area it will be mass bedlam I would have thought. Thousands going home and thousands slowing down to see what they can see and some who will park ANYWHERE and cause chaos!
Two of them will probably go over my house (touching wood) and I'll make do with that.
As for being in the area it will be mass bedlam I would have thought. Thousands going home and thousands slowing down to see what they can see and some who will park ANYWHERE and cause chaos!
Two of them will probably go over my house (touching wood) and I'll make do with that.
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Jer, yep, I'll be in Windsor if we're on Easterlies.
Am tempted by the shindig on the sixth floor put on by management, but as the TV cameras will be there, we'll be hard pressed to concentrate with point Seven doing his usual antics to keep the camera on him!
Am tempted by the shindig on the sixth floor put on by management, but as the TV cameras will be there, we'll be hard pressed to concentrate with point Seven doing his usual antics to keep the camera on him!