Drugs anyone?
 

Qantas backed away from confrontation with its unions over random drug and alcohol testing (ATWOnline, Aug. 11) by limiting the program to the airline's executives . The decision followed a recommendation by the Australian Industrial Relations Commission last week that the trial testing program should be restricted to nonunion employees when it begins later this month. The Australian Council of Trade Unions and 10 unions within Qantas raised the issue with AIRC, claiming the proposed testing program was unfair and represented a breach of employee privacy. They threatened industrial action if the carrier persevered with its plans. Qantas and the unions agreed to further talks and will reappear before the commission Aug. 15.


Oops, there go the lil'office bar fridges...
:O

I can see the pro's and also the con's in QF testing staff at random for drug use.

What I am curious about is the fact that it has not been done in the past, so why start now? I am wondering if there has been an incedent of late take place.

I've had a look at the policy and can't see anything wrong with it.

Qantas is probably one of the last large companies in the transport sector to implement this, railways do it, same in the mining industry, BHP etc.

You have to say to yourself, if someone has the lack of judgement to use illegal drugs, would you then want them excericing that same lack of judgement fixing or flying a plane?

I don't think that anyone has a problem with the policy, but it is the way management have said it will run. Apparently it was was not going to be too random, because when asked how people would be selected, in the reply was by looking at ammount of sick leave that had been taken by someone. So it has gone from being random to targeting people.

I was the same as you Biscuit Chucker about reporting all medicine like was being touted in some circles, however looking closer (and more subjectively) it is to do with drugs that may effect your work, ie: those heavy duty cold/flu things or hayfever pills that say "do not operate heavy machinery" and there wasn't a requirement to report it, just to be aware with your doctor when getting these drugs prescibed.

Pimp Daddy

I believe that some people could have an issue with non-illegal drugs eg alcohol.

It is perfectly legal (assuming an open drivers licence) to drive to work when your blood alcohol reading may be .03 however if randomly tested once at work, could be dismissed for having any alcohol reading at all.

This naturally excludes those occupations with a zero tolerance for alcohol. :eek: :eek:

Most places i know have a "3 strike "policy.
When being tested ,asked if and what medication your on.
If positive, sent home on pay until properly tested ,and if illegal drugs present,stay off work until you pass the test again.
Same with alcohol ,P-Off until it drops below required limit..
The hardest one to pass is the good old "joint".If you enjoy them frequently,then its in your system for up to 2 weeks.
The good hard stuff doesnt last long at all.
I dont agree with the "whacky Weed' one as i cant believe your still up with the pixies the next day.
I know quite a few people on their last chance and had to give it away.

So theres no big deal in it unless you participate,which quite a few do--------there lies the problem.

I should say (hope) pilots are clean ,but in these days of "duty of care" regulations ,could you imagine the concequences to Qantas if it was proven they allowed someone to work effected by booze or drugs and they caused some king of accident or harmed passengers in any way.

Just that word "random" goes a long way in a court-------it shows they do it.

And if ya real lucky some bird might even hold it for you when you pee in the bottle.

I cant see what the problem here is guys.

If you're on medication then fine - as long as it is within the confines of acceptabilities as prescribed by the CAO's.
(ie: Antibiotics and other non stimulants).

As far as being detected with something in your system you would undergo counselling by a company doctor and retested.
Those not indulging in say ecstacy (MDMA - whose use is ripe amongst some members of the aviation industry), Cocaine, Heroin,Marijuana,speed etc or even anabolic steriods (non subscription) have nothing to fear.

Judging by the number of people operating machinery/equipment at airports in the USA that have tested positive to class A drugs then I reackon its about bloody time.
Even in Japan some airlines have their pilots blow into the bag at sign on.

Bloody good idea I reackon.

Given that at Melbourne Airport definately and most likely other airports the there is a zero alcohol policy for operating equipment on the airport. This is not a Qantas policy but an airport operator one which Qantas must comply with.

Starting to see why this stuff is happening?

...And American Airforce pilots should be tested for drugs (speed) which they are prescribed...!!!
Just because drugs are prescribed doesn't make it ok.
Nor does being illegal make it not ok flying wise, necessarily, as long is one isn't under the influence/effect of the drug.
Moral and legal stances are a separate issue.

This is not really about fear....its about relavence. If there is to be testing, it should be done by police/aviation authorities, and on an agreed international standard if testing an international operation. It is no secret that alcholic abuse is a significant health problem in all walks of Australian society. With this knowledge, suggesting that a company would risk embarissing itself by using proper random spot preflight alcohol content checks is naive. Busting responsible occasional recreational users of herion and marijuana is of no medical or aviation risk significance and only serves to deflect attention away from the real widespread problem, alcohol. I do agree that MDMA and cocaine are very dangerous and which are usually consumed in conjunction with alcohol. What results is more Aussie medical know-how. The one or two pilots that puffed a joint last weekend are grounded while several dozen obese borderline heart attacks with hangovers continue to ply the skies....:ooh:

the us airforce readily hands out amphetamines to its combat pilots. this was shown on a recent documentary about the subject. pilots in iraq were "popping them like candy".
they had to sign a letter of voluntary acceptance. if they didn't sign it they would or could be taken off the flight line. the feeling was that they would be taken off flying duties.

the powers that controlled it said that it managed the fatigue of long flights. all of the arguments put forward (not directly) were answered with the point of view that it did no harm and raised the bar on performance. the fact that some of these "high" pilots were responsible for attacking their friends, and killing them didn't seem to rate.

they must know something we don't. then again maybe we should all be given uppers. we could do away with cao 48 and say we we will operate on a fatigue based management system.

how "high" can you fly???

Winstun,

Are you right?? That's an oxymoron if I ever read one!

PS: Those "obsese heart attacks" you waffle on about probably wouldn't pass their medical (if you hadn't noticed the ramp-up of standards in recent years: you DO do a medical don't you?).

CC really does have a good point there Winstun

That was a pretty irresponsible comment to make.


Regards
GG

Operations Normal then.......

GG, The only point I see from CC, and you is that good old simple Aussie mentality (much like Kaptain). Clutching at words, instead of grasping the idea...:rolleyes: how about By responsible, I mean showing up for work in a completely fit mental and physical state. Something not practised on a very frequent basis by many airline pilots worldwide that abuse alcohol on layovers. It is because of the legality and common excessive use of this drug, that it is the threat to the public. If you knew something about medicine, you would know that pure heroin (refined opium) is far less damaging to the body than alcohol. If by responsible, you mean, never broken the law....then I imagine we are talking about all the airline pilots that have never driven above the speed limit, cheated on their taxes, cheated on their wife, etc, etc. I do not condone the (very infrequent) use of illegal drugs, but it is the (frequently used and abused) legal drug, alcohol that is the safety threat to the good public here. BTW, CC are you fat? It is not hard to pass an aviation medical which is plainly evident from the all the obese airline pilots that ply the skies. It is a medical fact that obesity is a number one cause of heart attack and many other health problems. All beer swigging overweight pilots should be banned from cockpits before we start busting weekend marijuana puffers.....:rolleyes:

Winstun - good to see your back and displaying the distinct lack of intelligence and blatant stupidity which appear to be your trademarks.

So you reackon its ok for certain pilots to indulge in smoking drugs and attack others for being overweight and some hungover?

To put the record straight Winstun if I or others I know had any doubt as to a crewmembers sobriety or the inability of them to do their job then they walk and dont have any business on my flight deck.
That is a government law and regulation under the CAO's WINSTUN in case you didnt know.

To compare alchol to heroin use is pure ****e.
When you buy alcohol you know what you are getting and the effects have been very well catalogued over the last few thousand years or so.
When you take heroin do you really know what you are getting or what its been cut with????
NO.
As to pure heroin where is this available from because most addicts would just love to know as well as the cops because it results in more drug deaths..

If heroin users do shoot up with pure heroin this is typically when they do overdose and die - thats a statistical fact.
Not to mention the addictive nature of heroin or the fact that heroin alone accounts for some 30% of break-ins,street crimes such as assault (for heroin money etc).
Talked to any heroin users and they'll tell you themselves how it devours their soul through its pure addictive qualities.

Give me the amber fluid anyday.

Whilst we're at it Winstun you talk of obese pilots and the danger of heart attacks.
Dont judge a book by its cover Winstun as an increasing number of younger people that appear to be fit are joining the ranks of those with heart disease/cancer/stroke etc.

Secondly Winstun you are obviously ignorant of many reports issued by both the New England Journal of Medicine and the British Medical Journal about the use of Marijuana and Cannibis as well as Ecstacy (MDMA).
These have highlighted the dangers of their use with respect to such little subtleties as Marijuana induced schizophrenia and damage the short term memory for MDMA users.
And thats just the tip of the iceberg.

These dangers have been addressed in all the media - TV/Newspaper/Radio so even the likes of yourself Winstun should not be immune.

As to pilots flying whilst "hungover" I hope you have a way to:

a. Define the term, and
b. Prove it.

These are very serious allegations Winstun so if you are aware of these practices I suggest you act on them according to the law.
With respect to pilots smoking dope on the weekends I suppose you were witness to this and never addressed those responsible to their face???

I thought as much.

In short Winstun the law is the law like it or not.
Bust the rules and you get caught in which case you wont get my sympathy.

As for the rest of your post Winstun I guess you know what everyone else thinks.

You're waffling, Winstun!

:hmm:…a good introductory outline to your post……never implied such. What I do state is that it is rather meaningless to target the rare off duty cannabis user while hundreds of ill-effected alcohol users ply the skies daily. :p Thats very cute but not effective…problem is the my is often the they. Yes, I have rarely known of an airline pilot to break this law…..because the law has vague definition and interpretation. Correct, heroin use/abuse levels are not an even slightly significant threat to the good fare paying public. I was describing heroin damage to the body from a clinical viewpoint, I do not disagree with your other comments on this drug except that it is not an relevant (like marijuana) to public air safety. :ooh:...That about says it all…..you and many. Unfortunately many are not aware of the actual effects of alcohol on mental alertness even after 8/12/24/48 hours of use. :rolleyes: ..love to know where you gleaned this scientific fact….so whats your point? Its healthy and acceptable to be an obese pilot? Are you not majorly embarrassed to quote your knowledge source from the common Australian media? :sad: As to pilots flying whilst "hungover"
"a. Define the term." Affected by previous alcohol intake, suggest min 48 hours with proper rest prior to any operation.
"b. Prove it." Easy, walk into any worldwide airline layover watering hole and meet all the drunk pilots flying within the next 24 hours. Give me a friggin bone!! You still don’t get it, do you? There is no effective law to prevent fat alcohol effected people like you and your mates from risking the lives of the good public on a significantly widespread daily basis. The law is the law and the law needs to be changed. Damn right its serious...and the sooner these people are not flying affected, the better. I think your medically educated passenger is far less concerned about the rare pilot that may have puffed on a little bit of marijuana or heroin many days previous. Its really astonishing that pilots like Timee, given the responsibility of a multi million dollar machine, cant even comprehend the reality on this subject. Or maybe they dont want to. :hmm:

A thought that just crossed my mind - would use of an illicit drug mean that you were now not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a license issued by CASA (be it pilot, FE, LAME etc)?