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Originally Posted by SandyPalms
(Post 11549061)
Start clearances and COBT's are easy to implement. That wasn't done. I think ATC is to blame. Other airports do it better. Why can't Melbourne? Just wait till the greenies get involved here with all the wasted CO2 simply because ATC is too disengaged to do something. I get it, but if I just gave up because it's all too hard, what would be the predicted outcome?
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Originally Posted by Awol57
(Post 11549064)
But start clearances, I am not sure why that wasn't done. It's a very easy fix, or just hold people on the bay a bit longer.
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Originally Posted by LeiYingLo
(Post 11549087)
They did start holding people at the bay, but only after someone must’ve first looked out the window and seen the carpark they’d created.
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
(Post 11548449)
1 for 1 champ, when one of the same flavour calls tower on final you let one of the same flavour push back.
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This is the product of the privatisation of the airports, the ‘commercialisation’ of Airservices and the failure of the Commonwealth Parliament to do its job.
The airports are doing their jobs very well, thank you very much: Making money. Airservices is doing its job very well, thank you very much: Just ask its highly paid executives. The Commonwealth Parliament has failed to ensure the Airports Act is administered to achieve its objects and has failed to hold Airservices to account. |
Originally Posted by ER_BN
(Post 11548935)
Compressor Stall exactly!
A city pair statistic conveniently becomes the world's busiest air route. But hey why let truth get in the way of an alternative fact when you are out to impress some dumb senators? I fondly remember in the late 2000s standing in the foothills above Geneva at dusk with a wonderful Australian controller. Marvelling at the sheer number of contrails reflected in the light. We both burst out laughing, nothing said, as we knew we were thinking the same thing. ! Europe did about 24,000 airline flights a day last month - source Eurocontrol Australia did about 1400 - Source ASA. (and ca. 14% of those are between SYD & MEL) Europe and Oz are about the same size. |
Originally Posted by aviation_enthus
(Post 11549007)
It’s not as simple as “blame ASA”.
Why doesn’t Melbourne have 4 runways? (why are they debating which way a 3rd runway goes?? All that’s going to make is another Sydney - crosswind/one runway creates chaos) Why doesn’t Perth have 2 parallel runways? (The worst airport in Australia by far, also makes a 42% profit margin during the end of COVID!!) Why did it take 50 years to start building Western Sydney? Why were the Wagners (Wellcamp) laughed at when they showed a bit of vision? Why does Melbourne still NOT have an airport train? Why did it the initial plan for Western Sydney NOT have a train connection? DO YOU SEE A TREND?! We are lazy. On top of this policy does not encourage innovation or improvement. OH&S is a case in point, when was a bad “safety improvement” ever removed or reviewed as to its effectiveness?! Change the landing fee structure so the airports have some “skin in the game”: - first 5-10 minutes of airborne delay “free” - from 10 minutes the landing fees are pro-rata down to $0 by 30 minutes. Watch how fast they build runways!! Or even high speed exits, which you’d think had never been invented…. As for ASA, build proper STARS that didn’t need the f$&@ing stupid “descend via” calls. We are all saying this but has anyone asked why?! Anyone been to the USA? “cleared the XYZ arrival” - no other calls required because the STAR has all the height and speed requirements built in. No wasted radio calls!! It's the investors who are playing us for mugs. Look at the toll roads for a similar investment model. Buy a monopoly and milk it for all you can. They can't build a runway at Melbourne but they have more car parks than you can shake a stick at with all the finest flyovers and roads to conveniently drive into them. Macquarie bank was buying up all the taxi licences. The price of a licence went from something like 150,000 to 500,000. Then Uber appeared out of nowhere to spoil their party. |
It's happening all over again!
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Why can't they use runway 27? The crosswind component would only be 15-20 knots?
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Anyone who has flown out of Melbourne and Sydney knows how bad Melbourne is in terms of procedures and spacing. Melbourne has much greater available airspace, but has a ridiculous set of STARs and SIDs that over complicate and hamstring the controllers. Simple fixes like having Turbo-prop SIDs that turn much earlier allowing much less spacing between jets and slower traffic. In Sydney a TP is turning over houses at 500ft AGL, usually with a significant vector that gets them out of the way of following jets, so a jet can pretty much roll as the TP lifts off. In Melbourne they have to climb to 1000ft AGL, and then usually get a vector that keeps them in the way of jet traffic for a full extra departure slot, mainly because they don't want to vector a TP over some houses. Then there's simple things like Sydney will line up and depart trafffic with half the distance on final Sydney will. Which means in general they get almost two aircraft away in a gap Melbourne can.
In short Melbourne could greatly increase the rate of departures by having more adaptive procedures for mixed traffic, and letting low noise traffic like turbo-props depart over noise sensitive areas, to get out of the way of faster traffic. Then implement Jet and Turboprop holding points so that you can pop the right aircraft into each gap, ie Jet then TP up its backside, or TP with large vector and jet up its backside, etc etc.... |
Originally Posted by Mr Mossberg
(Post 11549063)
ASA management will tell you repeatedly how good they are. RS and JH are masters of this garbage. You might want to have a look at those two fellows super balances.
Nothing has improved during his reign and yet the government keeps renewing his contract. |
Originally Posted by DROPS
(Post 11549753)
They have push back clearances on.
Maybe the companies need the bays and prefer to push back |
25 a/c idling for 30 to 90 minutes, but hey we need to drive EVs to clean up the planet, the gummint said so. Let's not even go near the 5hit5how that is Perth atc, 100s of tons of fuel burnt unnecessarily every week and for what? Because allegedly Air lack of Services Australia won't employ enough ATCs? You honestly could NOT make this 5hit up
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How is the delays today? I bet horrible with the low cloud and drizzle.
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Originally Posted by airdualbleedfault
(Post 11549789)
25 a/c idling for 30 to 90 minutes, but hey we need to drive EVs to clean up the planet, the gummint said so.
https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector |
It took us 1 hour from pushback to airborne at 12:30 today……I’ve never seen it this slow before, Runway 27 could have been used but wasn't……. The mind boggles…..
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Originally Posted by DROPS
(Post 11549774)
More concerning is who is the replacement.
If it is from within can we not just expect more of the same? Sounds like a small Australian airline we knew recently. |
It took us 1 hour from pushback to airborne at 12:30 today……I’ve never seen it this slow before |
A genuine question. Number 1 at holding point. Aircraft landing and another about a 5 mile final. Why is it that some tower controllers take so long to clear you to line up? The landing aircraft is halfway down the runway before you call me and by the time we respond and get moving 30 seconds wasted. That adds up over a day.
There is 1 controller at Melbourne that won't even clear you if traffic is 6 or 7 miles out :ugh: Admittedly, virgin taking the rapid at 10 kts doesn't help. Secondly, why can't you line Up multiple (suitable) aircraft at once? 16 deps, 1 at E and the other at full length. Soon as one is over the fence fire the next one etc. Not having a go or anything, just trying to understand why things take so dam long in this country (melb is by far the worst) compared to flying anywhere else. |
Could be a multitude of reasons, but maybe they needed to do a next call for your departure instructions, or they were waiting for a release from departures. Or they could just be slow. Hard to hang a hat on a reason, could be a mix of all of the above. 5nm I would suggest would almost always be a gap, but there could be wake turbulence, or some additional spacing required on the same SID due to varying aircraft speeds. Not really familiar with ML ops so can only give a couple of general reasons. There isn't a reason why you can't line multiple aircraft up, though if you have arrivals as well, that's a consideration. Nothing quite as exciting as having a few lined up to depart 03 at PH and having someone pop out of JT and straight onto final for 03.
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