Originally Posted by RealSatoshi
(Post 11497253)
Slow-walking negotiations...think if I've read that somewhere - What a Joke!
Don't let this drag on and don't accept mediocrity - for the benefit of ALL. |
I’d want to see:
- payment for reserve, - min daily credit with elapsed time away credit, so I’m not sitting in Darwin on a 3 day trip with a redeye finish for 9 hours pay, or getting paid 4 hrs less than a 330 crew on a Bali, - full credits when paxing - I’m at work I should be paid full $$. If the company has me paxing because they can’t build efficient patterns that’s their problem, - some form of pay guarantee when flying is cancelled, especially day of ops, but without the ability for the company to infringe X days, - some form of pay protection for when flying is lost next day because of delays, - some form of duty pay credit on single day flying, - additional $$ payment if agreeing to work on a day off. OL11 doesn’t cut it any more. Not worth it. - some COMMITMENT (not the current aspirational statement) to more efficient rosters (see MDC above) so you’re not working 18 days out of 28. This would increase the number of AV days for all so top of the PSN doesn’t get smashed on their AV days because they’re the only crew that have any. Fix those and you can probably just about leave the hourly rate where it is because the pay bump and lifestyle improvements from those measures would be significant. Probably dreaming, but that’s about what I told the union in my survey. |
Originally Posted by RealSatoshi
(Post 11497253)
Slow-walking negotiations...think if I've read that somewhere - What a Joke!
The 2007 EA expired in August 2012 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised until 30 months later. The 2002 EA expired in August 2005 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised for at least 18 months. Not saying that’s how it should be but history tells us contract negotiations aren’t a quick thing. |
Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere
(Post 11497274)
I’d want to see:
- payment for reserve, - min daily credit with elapsed time away credit, so I’m not sitting in Darwin on a 3 day trip with a redeye finish for 9 hours pay, or getting paid 4 hrs less than a 330 crew on a Bali, - full credits when paxing - I’m at work I should be paid full $$. If the company has me paxing because they can’t build efficient patterns that’s their problem, - some form of pay guarantee when flying is cancelled, especially day of ops, but without the ability for the company to infringe X days, - some form of pay protection for when flying is lost next day because of delays, - some form of duty pay credit on single day flying, - additional $$ payment if agreeing to work on a day off. OL11 doesn’t cut it any more. Not worth it. - some COMMITMENT (not the current aspirational statement) to more efficient rosters (see MDC above) so you’re not working 18 days out of 28. This would increase the number of AV days for all so top of the PSN doesn’t get smashed on their AV days because they’re the only crew that have any. Fix those and you can probably just about leave the hourly rate where it is because the pay bump and lifestyle improvements from those measures would be significant. Probably dreaming, but that’s about what I told the union in my survey. Yep, 100%! Youve pretty much listed my own ‘points that need fixing’ in the SHEA. Anecdotally only, but I’m yet to hear anyone not say that the above aren’t well overdue for correction. No more mincing around the edge solutions like RDC, etc. Fix them and fix them properly. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 11497276)
The 2015 EA expired in August 2018 and it’s replacement didn’t come into effect for 18 months.
The 2007 EA expired in August 2012 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised until 30 months later. The 2002 EA expired in August 2005 and it’s replacement wasn’t finalised for at least 18 months. Two parties arrive at the negotiation table:
|
Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere
(Post 11497274)
I’d want to see:
You know the drill: vote yes 2nd time round take the little brown paper bag get 3% wow vote up another b scale keep doing reserves unpaid tell yourself your duty credit is not that bad thank aipa crew for doing their very best Yawn….. |
Or conversely go all in on a scope clause and plug the leaking bucket before spending another 20 years trying to fill it further?
|
Whilst I'm not now, and never have been a shorthaul pilot, there is one item that, from my experience in assessing shorthaul fatigue reports, must be included in any new Agreement.
There must be an award based credit or mechanism that doesn't financially penalise and thus discourage a pilot from reporting "unfit for duty due fatigue". It would be in the best interest of both the pilot and the/any company to ensure that pilots aren't discouraged from reporting fatigued. We got close to this in about 2015 or 16 but it was rejected (apparently by someone above the CP) at the last minute. |
Originally Posted by C441
(Post 11497329)
Whilst I'm not now, and never have been a shorthaul pilot, there is one item that, from my experience in assessing shorthaul fatigue reports, must be included in any new Agreement.
There must be an award based credit or mechanism that doesn't financially penalise and thus discourage a pilot from reporting "unfit for duty due fatigue". It would be in the best interest of both the pilot and the/any company to ensure that pilots aren't discouraged from reporting fatigued. We got close to this in about 2015 or 16 but it was rejected (apparently by someone above the CP) at the last minute. Reliance on an hourly flight payment and operating above MGH plus allowances won't. |
Originally Posted by Keg
(Post 11496951)
Only an idiot plays poker with their cards face up on the table!
|
Originally Posted by Keg
(Post 11496951)
Only an idiot plays poker with their cards face up on the table!
Originally Posted by Jack D. Ripper
(Post 11497556)
I’d hate to think that those negotiating on my behalf viewed it as a game…. Or worse, a gamble.
You’re either stirring the pot, or thick as molasses. |
Originally Posted by No upgrade
(Post 11497300)
or else what? Whinge again about no scope clause and your 20 year upgrade date?
You know the drill: vote yes 2nd time round take the little brown paper bag get 3% wow vote up another b scale keep doing reserves unpaid tell yourself your duty credit is not that bad thank aipa crew for doing their very best Yawn….. Someone asked what the AIPA negotiators’ log of claims would be. I don’t have that info. I attempted to provide the forum with a list of some things that, from my experience, I would like to see improved. They seem to be pretty common gripes amongst SH crew. If the offer doesn’t meet my expectations, I’ll vote no. If a majority of my colleagues vote yes, I’ll be bound to accept the outcome and will continue to use the provisions within the amended document to achieve what I consider an acceptable lifestyle and financial outcome. Simple really. |
Under the proposed "same job same pay" bill soon to be introduced, QF mainline pay was rumoured to drop to the lowest in the Qantas group, not sure which in the group, maybe EFA.
Maybe not since Alan is gone now, but Albo was going to make it happen for him. |
Originally Posted by prickly
(Post 11500274)
Under the proposed "same job same pay" bill soon to be introduced, QF mainline pay was rumoured to drop to the lowest in the Qantas group, not sure which in the group, maybe EFA.
Maybe not since Alan is gone now, but Albo was going to make it happen for him. Nice wind up though. |
Originally Posted by Transition Layer
(Post 11500282)
I think you’ll find the bill is actually about improving the conditions of those employed by labour hire companies, so that they get paid the same as those employed directly by the parent company. It’s not about reducing the pay of anyone.
Nice wind up though. |
Originally Posted by VHOED191006
(Post 11500290)
So in theory, the NWK A320 guys should get paid roughly the same as the 737 guys?
I don’t think it’ll affect pilots much, but may affect cabin crew as you can have multiple EAs and casual employees working on the same flight. |
Anyone know if there’s been any meeting to happen on this front yet ?
|
Originally Posted by Transition Layer
(Post 11500282)
I think you’ll find the bill is actually about improving the conditions of those employed by labour hire companies, so that they get paid the same as those employed directly by the parent company. It’s not about reducing the pay of anyone.
Nice wind up though. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 11500295)
I think it means if you have two pilots working in the same job for the same company (ie both A320 Captains for the same entity for instance) and one happens to be a lower paid contractor then their pay should be level with the full time employee.
I don’t think it’ll affect pilots much, but may affect cabin crew as you can have multiple EAs and casual employees working on the same flight. |
Originally Posted by chazwazza14
(Post 11502503)
What about Jetconnect pilots? Guess now they are on the same AOC, they definitely fall in to the same job same pay scenario…
Not that it makes a difference in this context, but I thought they still operated under thier own AOC but with VH aircraft? |
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