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-   -   Virgin auto throttle - notepad - fuel control switch oopsie (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/653729-virgin-auto-throttle-notepad-fuel-control-switch-oopsie.html)

mates rates 19th Jul 2023 04:43

Had Boeing stayed with the original start switches this would not have happened as the gate was much safer!! 😆 🤷

dejapoo 19th Jul 2023 05:58


Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs (Post 11469519)
It twasn't me but I do know the captain and he is still shocked to this day that it happened. He was a very prof operator. IIRC all that could be assumed was that the fuel switch was left sitting on the gate lug and eventually was bumped off an hour or so into the flight. We were reminded that the FCOM said "jiggle it to make sure it is locked on".

There was also the case of the AFM (now that is studying!) taking a swan dive off the coaming panel, bumping off (I think) one of TDRacer's worn-out fuel switches. Switch guards were designed and fitted pronto after that. :D

Agreed. Total gentleman.

TDR? TLA?

Zinfandel 19th Jul 2023 11:20

Delta had a double engine shutdown on a B717 due to an EFB on the fuel levers. They were aware of the issue Cobham had but didn’t implement the mod (cover) that Cobham did post their event.

compressor stall 19th Jul 2023 16:49

The opposite can happen.

A320 pulled up at the gate. #1 start lever jammed. No rearward movement. Would not shut down.

Head scratching and discussion ensuing as to best course of subsequent action when the eagle eyed jump seater noticed a small difference between the two levers.

Close investigation revealed a tiny stone had wedged itself on the rear side of the lever (effectively invisible to the flight crew) preventing movement.

Likely source was the tread of a jump seater’s shoe on the rear of the centre console and rattling into the depression behind the lever.

megan 20th Jul 2023 01:40


Delta had a double engine shutdown on a B717
Not thinking of the Delta 767 out of LAX 30 June 87, Captain some how turned off both fuel switches at 1,600 ft on take off, recovered at 600 ft, unable to find the report.

Lead Balloon 20th Jul 2023 02:37

Many moons ago, a squadron which will remain nameless operated a triple-engined aircraft of a type which will remain nameless. The centre console of the type includes an emergency leading edge slats extension switch.

On returning to the cockpit after a comfort break during cruising flight, the pilot - who will remain nameless - caught the toe of his shoe on that switch while climbing back into 0A.

The aircraft slowed, quite quickly. Disconcerting for POB. Not good for the leading edge slats to be extended at cruise speed.

After that, one of those rocket switch safety covers was retrofitted to the fleet.

BuzzBox 20th Jul 2023 09:21


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11470435)
Many moons ago, a squadron which will remain nameless operated a triple-engined aircraft of a type which will remain nameless. The centre console of the type includes an emergency leading edge slats extension switch.

On returning to the cockpit after a comfort break during cruising flight, the pilot - who will remain nameless - caught the toe of his shoe on that switch while climbing back into 0A.

The aircraft slowed, quite quickly. Disconcerting for POB. Not good for the leading edge slats to be extended at cruise speed.

After that, one of those rocket switch safety covers was retrofitted to the fleet.

As I recall, the switch already had a safety cover, but the switch and the safety cover operated in the same direction, so it was possible to lift the cover and flip the switch all in one action. Said pilot managed to do exactly that when he caught the edge of the safety cover with his shoe as he got back into the seat. The fix was to rotate the safety cover 180° so the cover opened in one direction and the switch then had to be flipped in the opposite direction. And no, it wasn’t me!

Lead Balloon 20th Jul 2023 09:47

My recollection of what a friend of a friend said he heard someone say, in an ablution facility after the event, is that there was a circa USD6,000 per aircraft modification kit issued after the event, which kit included the safety covered switch and wiring to replace the original switch. So, according to what the friend of the friend overheard, it was not as simple as rotating an existing safety cover.

But only the people who were there will know the truth.

Mach E Avelli 20th Jul 2023 10:15


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11470606)
My recollection of what a friend of a friend said he heard someone say, in an ablution facility after the event, is that there was a circa USD6,000 per aircraft modification kit issued after the event, which kit included the safety covered switch and wiring to replace the original switch. So, according to what the friend of the friend overheard, it was not as simple as rotating an existing safety cover.

But only the people who were there will know the truth.

Rotating the switch cover was likely a 20 dollar 20 minute fix. The $6000 was probably the usual aviation need to make mountains out of molehills, such as appointing
​​multiple teams of experts to have meetings to approve, then having them submit to some higher authority to approve, then raising manual amendments via some convoluted process, plus maintenance personnel and pilot retraining etc. Can't be seen to do it on the cheap.



Lead Balloon 20th Jul 2023 10:30

True.

But that wouldn't explain why the modification kit, mentioned by the someone overheard by my friend of a friend in the ablution facility, contained components that had to be retrofitted to the aircraft.

I suppose we're never likely to hear from anyone with first-hand knowledge of the truth.

Mach E Avelli 20th Jul 2023 10:52

One great fix I saw was on a fleet of Pommy Vickers Viscounts. The stopwatch was prone to breakage by fat fingered pilots, so some engineer fitted clockwork egg timers to the panels. It was better than the stopwatch because even the totally mechanically challenged could work it, and a bell rang. Very useful for holding patterns and fuel crossfeeding. Somehow I don't think it was CAA approved.

HOVIS 20th Jul 2023 11:01


Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli (Post 11469251)
Then there was the B732 crew who decided to 're rack' a radar screen which in those old clunkers lived between the throttles and centre panel. They were on descent with the throttles at near idle. They got the radar box jammed half way & couldn't get the throttles forward for approach. Somewhat panicked, they demolished the stuck radar box with the crash axe to get it free.
Worth a DCM, that one.

The story I heard was that it was a Big Airways Trident or 1-11.

Mach E Avelli 20th Jul 2023 11:15


Originally Posted by HOVIS (Post 11470666)
The story I heard was that it was a Big Airways Trident or 1-11.

It’s possible it was a BAC 1-11 because the radar was similarly located. Also, the incident was attributed to a certain Irish Airline but that was when Irish jokes were acceptable, so who knows? However, it did happen. I recall reading a report on it.. The report is unlikely to have named the airline.
So, as to aircraft type and the culprit, not sure.

BuzzBox 20th Jul 2023 11:18


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11470606)
But only the people who were there will know the truth.

I was there at the time. I can’t remember if it needed an entirely new switch & cover, but the problem was fixed by making sure the cover and switch operated in different directions so that two distinct actions were required to operate the emergency slats. That was not the case before the mod, when the cover and switch could be operated in one action.

Lead Balloon 20th Jul 2023 11:37

Then yours is the best evidence there is. I wasn't there from '89 to '93, so I couldn't provide the kind of first-hand insight you are providing.

The modification kits are clearly fake news. That's the last time I rely on what a friend of a friend tells me what he heard someone say in an ablution facility.


VHOED191006 22nd Jul 2023 07:10


Originally Posted by Gin Jockey (Post 11468861)
(the newer penis-y style).

Possibly one of the best descriptions I've heard so far for the new design.

Zinfandel 22nd Jul 2023 08:48


Originally Posted by megan (Post 11470432)
Not thinking of the Delta 767 out of LAX 30 June 87, Captain some how turned off both fuel switches at 1,600 ft on take off, recovered at 600 ft, unable to find the report.

Nope it was a 717 and during Delta’s evaluation of portable EFBs.

aeromech3 23rd Jul 2023 05:16


Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli (Post 11470655)
One great fix I saw was on a fleet of Pommy Vickers Viscounts. The stopwatch was prone to breakage by fat fingered pilots, so some engineer fitted clockwork egg timers to the panels. It was better than the stopwatch because even the totally mechanically challenged could work it, and a bell rang. Very useful for holding patterns and fuel crossfeeding. Somehow I don't think it was CAA approved.

Had to do the same to the FE's position on a B727-200 with Aux tanks, thought it was a bit of a personal preference, but then years later another FE on classic style B747 overlooked his fuel balance trick and engines wound down, luckily regained, but he was grounded.

Wizofoz 23rd Jul 2023 09:13

Then there was the time an F27 pilot pushed his seat back, pushing the (metal covered) flight manual and engaging the flight-control locks...

Mach E Avelli 23rd Jul 2023 09:55


Originally Posted by Wizofoz (Post 11472301)
Then there was the time an F27 pilot pushed his seat back, pushing the (metal covered) flight manual and engaging the flight-control locks...

He was my next door neighbour. It not only engaged the flight control locks, it removed the propeller pitch locks. Had they pulled the throttles back, they would have been in deep manure.
Fortunately in those days pilots were taught all about systems, so when the lights came on they figured it out. No doubt preceded by a WTF? moment, as the checklist hadn't thought of that scenario.


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