Originally Posted by tossbag
(Post 11383087)
You poor bastard, you actually believe what you wrote? Maybe sometime in 2027 we'll hear something.
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Originally Posted by malabo
(Post 11383128)
Bear with me, not an Australian, but why would the ATSB give a rat's ass? No loss of life, not even an injury, Part 138 utility operation - no public safety issues, foreign aircraft, foreign flight crew . It more or less burned as much useless scrub as it put out on its last pass. Let the operator figure it out, or not.
Surprised you're still on about cabin crew visibility when non-pprune rumours have graduated to power loss after completion of the last run. |
Originally Posted by Lucerne
(Post 11383170)
What reason has there been to suspect power loss?
However given that both pilots walked away, I doubt it'll take much effort to find out why they hit the ground (inadvertent ground contact, power loss, other control issue, etc.). Assuming it's not pilot error, then the real trick becomes figuring out why what happened happened. |
Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 11383182)
Ah, they hit the ground? Power loss is always one of the first items investigated after a force landing.
However given that both pilots walked away, I doubt it'll take much effort to find out why they hit the ground (inadvertent ground contact, power loss, other control issue, etc.). Assuming it's not pilot error, then the real trick becomes figuring out why what happened happened. |
Pretty sure it wasn't power loss, as you can see in the circle round aerial footage what looks like jetblast damage at high power leading up to the crash site, that is two lines of cut down scrub narrowing down to the impact point before the slide marks. It's either a stall with not quite enough alt to recover or target fixation and same result. I think the talk about clipping the ridge gives away what they already know.
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Over the coming weeks, the collection of evidence will allow the ATSB to determine the scope of the investigation and gain a better understanding of its timeframe. I would have thought it was fairly obvious even at this stage that who, what, where, when, why and how were the scope of the investigation. PC, I agree with you that 2027 is a bit optimistic for the ATSB report on this event. I'm with LB on this one and am also happy to be labelled as biased about the ATSB :suspect: |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11383186)
Pretty sure it wasn't power loss, as you can see in the circle round aerial footage what looks like jetblast damage at high power leading up to the crash site, that is two lines of cut down scrub narrowing down to the impact point before the slide marks. It's either a stall with not quite enough alt to recover or target fixation and same result. I think the talk about clipping the ridge gives away what they already know.
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Assuming it's not pilot error, then the real trick becomes figuring out why what happened happened. |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11383186)
Pretty sure it wasn't power loss, as you can see in the circle round aerial footage what looks like jetblast damage at high power leading up to the crash site, that is two lines of cut down scrub narrowing down to the impact point before the slide marks. It's either a stall with not quite enough alt to recover or target fixation and same result. I think the talk about clipping the ridge gives away what they already know.
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Originally Posted by Fris B. Fairing
(Post 11383086)
The question was; How can it improve cockpit visibility by eliminating four windows that were there as original equipment? When they were converting DC-4s to tankers they would often install an eyebrow window for the very purpose later described by Checkboard.
Originally Posted by Checkboard
(Post 11382894)
I flew 737s with eyebrows out of Perth. They were very useful in visual circuits and circling. On a base turn to the otherside (i.e. flying left seat and turning right or vise versa) the threshold is nicely visible in the eyebrow window.
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Originally Posted by FDR
Large aircraft visual patterns are replete with examples of the drivers getting down into the weeds for various reasons, many the "100" "50" "40" "30" calls happening without a runway in front are the big cues
Eyebrows were great when turning right base from seat 0A, YPBO 24 being a good example! :ok: |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11383186)
Pretty sure it wasn't power loss, as you can see in the circle round aerial footage what looks like jetblast damage at high power leading up to the crash site, that is two lines of cut down scrub narrowing down to the impact point before the slide marks.
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IF it was pilot error and they either struck the ground or stalled trying to avoid ground contact, the critical visibility would have been what's below, not what's above. How would eyebrow windows help?
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Explanation sideline time out -
but the perception of a pill box visual for the B737 I've not come across such a reference previously. Might you be able to expand a bit upon its significance, please ? |
Bloggsy - are you still flying or is seat 0A just a distant memory now?
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Can you please post the image you've seen with evidence or indication of the "jetblast damage" to the scrub? |
Could those marks be where the engine intakes were scooping?
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I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but both this accident and that of Tanker 134's remind me also of the close call with the RJ a few seasons ago. There's a reoccurring problem here that needs addressing. We can talk about potential power loss, weird and irrelevant conversations about visibility and eye brow windows, and what the ATSB should be doing until we're blue in the face. However, what about the repetitively poor management of flight in the lower levels.
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Could those marks be where the engine intakes were scooping? I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but both this accident and that of Tanker 134's remind me also of the close call with the RJ a few seasons ago. There's a reoccurring problem here that needs addressing. We can talk about potential power loss, weird and irrelevant conversations about visibility and eye brow windows, and what the ATSB should be doing until we're blue in the face. However, what about the repetitively poor management of flight in the lower levels. In the video below you can see the pilots scan approaching the target and the workload he is under, and then during the drop and recover there is a lot of flying happening... Imagine that with speed multiplied in a large jet. |
Is this what you're talking about? It could even be where the vortices swept away the lighter scrub, leaves, dry fuel etc on the ground. Or maybe they're too close together, dunno, but as evident in the Avro/146 video a lot of dirt gets thrown up with a wing that close to the ground especially at that weight and only 101kts GS.
Target fixation and low airspeed do not necessarily go together. The Avro got close enough to the ground to raise dust to the ground because the terrain was hilly and the hill wasn't noticed whereas this terrain was relatively flat. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1a5956186b.png |
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