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-   -   Brisbane Airport (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/646817-brisbane-airport.html)

Mr Approach 22nd May 2022 01:40

Brisbane Airport
 
It looks as though the Greens may pick up the three electorates affected by noise from the new 19R/01L. They were the only party that promised to do everything demanded by the noise lobby.
Assuming Labor ends up having to cooperate with the Greens to pass legislation, and the Greens price is a Brisbane Airport curfew and movement caps:
My question is:
Can Brisbane Airport Corporation sue the two Federal Government agencies, Airservices and CASA, responsible for flight paths and deleting the 10 Knot tailwind exemption that have caused the problems?
Note: Airservices has been slammed by an inquiry for lack of consultation and told by consultants they did not try very hard, and CASA could have allowed the 10 tailwind exemption to continue for 01R (properly authorised 30 years ago and still in use until Airservices asked the question) while not approving in excess of 5 kts for 01L.
Any aviation lawyers out there?

IAW 22nd May 2022 01:58

Just follow the money. If the threat of a curfew is real, all involved will suddenly find a way to staff more over the water movements.

The airlines will either absorb the higher fees or pass them on to the punters.

​​​BAC have themselves to blame as their mock community consultation and promised noise levels was baloney, and makes them look like they intentionally had something to hide.

Australopithecus 22nd May 2022 02:01

Interesting questions and big assumptions. The big issue is climate change, and realpolitik may diminish the urgency of any other election promises including airport noise.

tossbag 22nd May 2022 02:07

Given that the new communist leader of Australia's electorate is the one that overlays Sydney's airport, you can assume that the idiot will kowtow to the greens and Brisbane will get a shiny new curfew.

Albanese is a walkover, you only have to watch the childish way he behaves in press conferences and his ridiculous scolding of his supporters at his victory speech. He behaves like a clown. No one has any respect for him, check his body langauge, he is sh!tting himself at the thought of having to make decisions.

Derfred 22nd May 2022 04:11

Wasn't Albanese the architect of Sydney Airport's ridiculous legislation that still hampers airport efficiency to this day?

https://anthonyalbanese.com.au/priva...ill-1996-first

dr dre 22nd May 2022 04:40

I bet you guys would be of the same opinion if a new flight path suddenly popped up over your home, decreasing it's value and your quality of life.

If opposition to more aircraft noise in congested areas drove voters to the Greens well that's democracy in action, but you'll also find the LNP members in Brisbane last month acknowledged increased noise in the city is an issue and vowed to make changes to decrease noise.

The real problem is most Australian airports have an approach or departure track over a large proportion of that city's urban area. Brisbane 01, Sydney 16, Adelaide 23 stand out. Great view out the window but you're going to annoy a lot of people underneath. If we had long term foresight in this country we'd plan and build airports some distance from the urban area serviced by fast rail and road links, make greater use of RNP for curved approaches and get cracking on better insulation materials like graphene that'd take engine noise down by quite a few decibels.

Australopithecus 22nd May 2022 05:10

Hell, I am all for a curfew. Preferably one that ends at 0900. Aircraft noise affected areas in BNE have a legitimate complaint in my view. The ridiculous STARs with their low level nav exercises add to noise, as do early speed reduction targets which mean early flaps and more aero noise.

The larger agenda you guys are missing is the carbon one. A 60% reduction in carbon in 7.5 years is not going to leave any industry or transport mode unaffected. 60% is what some teal independents are talking about. The political dialogue is soon going to be all carbon, all the time.

Global carbon reduction targets are going to be missed by a wide margin, yet our industry's noise is still going to become our least troublesome emission.

DHC4 22nd May 2022 05:12


Originally Posted by tossbag (Post 11233486)
Given that the new communist leader of Australia's electorate is the one that overlays Sydney's airport, you can assume that the idiot will kowtow to the greens and Brisbane will get a shiny new curfew.

Albanese is a walkover, you only have to watch the childish way he behaves in press conferences and his ridiculous scolding of his supporters at his victory speech. He behaves like a clown. No one has any respect for him, check his body langauge, he is sh!tting himself at the thought of having to make decisions.

Communist leader, your pain really makes me happy.

BravoSierraLima 22nd May 2022 05:50

A compromise idea: if it comes to it, what about just putting a curfew on the new runway only and the older one can take all the overnight arrivals/departures? They could add in an exemption that the new runway is used when the old runway is closed for works overnight. The traffic between 2300-0600 can be handled by one runway and residents under the flight paths for 01R/19L are already used to the noise.

Car RAMROD 22nd May 2022 05:58


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11233509)
I bet you guys would be of the same opinion if a new flight path suddenly popped up over your home, decreasing it's value and your quality of life.

well they would be fairly hypocritical then... complaining about the noise they themselves are generating...

tossbag 22nd May 2022 07:01


I bet you guys would be of the same opinion if a new flight path suddenly popped up over your home, decreasing it's value and your quality of life.
In the mid 90's I lived on the 7 ways at Rockdale, our rear balcony was on the flight path for Runway 07 at Sydney (before the parallel). A slab, pizza and deckchair and it was bloody great. the aircraft would be below 1000ft at that stage. A lot lower than the morons in Brisbane are complaining about.

Does it lower the real estate values? Bullshit it does, check any of the sale prices in the last year or so. You get used to the level of noise.

tossbag 22nd May 2022 07:04


Communist leader, your pain really makes me happy.
Dude, trust me, politicians don't pain me, they're all the same. Liars pain me, Albanese trying to hide his clear communist links is the pain.

maggot 22nd May 2022 07:47

Curfews are great5am reports are early enough
what's with boomers and commy panic

Ozdork 22nd May 2022 08:00


Originally Posted by BravoSierraLima (Post 11233523)
A compromise idea: if it comes to it, what about just putting a curfew on the new runway only and the older one can take all the overnight arrivals/departures? They could add in an exemption that the new runway is used when the old runway is closed for works overnight. The traffic between 2300-0600 can be handled by one runway and residents under the flight paths for 01R/19L are already used to the noise.

That doesn’t sound like a compromise, it sounds like shoving the problem somewhere else and letting them suffer, as long you’re ok

By George 22nd May 2022 08:21

In the early eighties I lived in Gover St North Adelaide right under the flight path, around the five mile point for RW23 (1500ft on the ILS). Never bothered me the slightest, in fact, when outside I enjoyed seeing who was going over. On dead still days with no wind the occasional vortex rotor would descend onto my washing line making a strange whooshing sound that would flip my undies about. A bit of rough justice I suppose, being an airline pilot and having ones underwear spun around by jet wash.
When Melbourne's Tullamarine opened it was in the middle of nowhere. Now look at all the houses under the 27 ILS. Not to mention, todays jets sound like anaemic lawn mowers compared to the old F28 and 727. Those beautiful aeroplanes would shake the earth.

MickG0105 22nd May 2022 14:27


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11233509)
I bet you guys would be of the same opinion if a new flight path suddenly popped up over your home, decreasing it's value and your quality of life.

Suddenly popped up?! The parallel runway has been in the Brisbane Airport masterplan going back to at least 1988. Those flight paths didn't "suddenly pop up".

What evolved under those long planned flight paths was the gentrification of the formerly dockside, commercial and light industrial suburbs of New Farm and Teneriffe. And if anyone buying into that area had have been even vaguely interested in what the coming flight paths would deliver in terms of noise all they needed to do was drive to Morningside and listen to traffic from the original runway passing over.

fokker1000 22nd May 2022 17:53

People who have very expensive properties in West London complain about jet noise, yet they did knew about that little airport called Heathrow when they moved in...... And seem to like to fly to get their little break in the sun every few months...... There is a word I'm trying to think of here.... It begins with H.

Answers on a postcard please folks :8 Par Avion of course!!

sagan 22nd May 2022 22:42


Originally Posted by By George (Post 11233549)
On dead still days with no wind the occasional vortex rotor would descend onto my washing line making a strange whooshing sound that would flip my undies about. A bit of rough justice I suppose, being an airline pilot and having ones underwear spun around by jet wash.

Very funny :)

Biggles_in_Oz 23rd May 2022 00:05


Originally Posted by tossbag (Post 11233534)
In the mid 90's I lived on the 7 ways at Rockdale, our rear balcony was on the flight path for Runway 07 at Sydney (before the parallel). A slab, pizza and deckchair and it was bloody great. the aircraft would be below 1000ft at that stage. A lot lower than the morons in Brisbane are complaining about.

Does it lower the real estate values? Bullshit it does, check any of the sale prices in the last year or so. You get used to the level of noise.

It also helps that a lot of houses in that area got sound-insulation, paid for by a noise-levy on tickets.
I missed out, and now get awakened by the 9:45pm to 10:45pm and/or the 6:01am to 6:20am westward scramble out of SYD.

Australopithecus 23rd May 2022 02:32


Originally Posted by Biggles_in_Oz (Post 11233875)
It also helps that a lot of houses in that area got sound-insulation, paid for by a noise-levy on tickets.
I missed out, and now get awakened by the 9:45pm to 10:45pm and/or the 6:01am to 6:20am westward scramble out of SYD.

Are you contemplating spending your own money to value-add to your house?


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