There is no way to stop the race to the bottom , the company always wins and always has. Remember when the Qantas pilots said don,t join Jetstar on such poor conditions , I wonder where all the people are that took this advice , probably not in Aviation , but more than likely in JQ or VA.
the only floor in this is the pilot award for now , but even this will be challenged. 457 visas would open the floodgates, never will be more than temporary shortages in Australian Airlines. |
Originally Posted by Scooter Rassmussin
(Post 11237201)
There is no way to stop the race to the bottom , the company always wins and always has. Remember when the Qantas pilots said don,t join Jetstar on such poor conditions , I wonder where all the people are that took this advice , probably not in Aviation , but more than likely in JQ or VA.
the only floor in this is the pilot award for now , but even this will be challenged. 457 visas would open the floodgates, never will be more than temporary shortages in Australian Airlines. You say “race to the bottom”, the proposed deal for the A321 will see (at the usual hours of roughly 68 per roster) Captains earn about $310,000 and F/O’s $195,000. With some allowances, bonus and picking up an extra day of work a roster in what an “average” year pre pandemic would’ve consisted of can see that pay increase by 25-30%. In comparison the Pilot’s Award floor for Narrowbody Captain and F/O are $171,000 and $110,000 once the ATPL, turbojet and IR allowances are added on. |
In comparison the Pilot’s Award floor for Narrowbody Captain and F/O are $171,000 and $110,000 once the ATPL, turbojet and IR allowances are added on. There is no way to stop the race to the bottom , the company always wins and always has. |
Originally Posted by neville_nobody
(Post 11237225)
It will stop when the Pilot Labour market implodes and noone wants to do the job as the cost of training is to high and noone wants to take the risk. I would suggest that some Regionals and maybe Alliance will be there sooner than you think. Some places like the US have seen what is coming in the medium term and are offering some serious improvements in pay. Get them while you can etc. We will be the last place on earth to react to anything and by the time we do, we will be parking aircraft and paying the next generation of pilots, whoever is left, crazy overtime rates. It’s at that point in when we might do something, which usually involves sooking to Canberra. Cadets are the answer apparently. No they are not, in this country they will all just p!ss off abroad taking double dollars to fly big twins with folding wings. |
I don't ever recall QF getting bagged in the media, on travel forums and social media as much as they have been for the last few months. Surely, (eventually) some of the mud being flung must stick on Joyce and co. How long can they go on treating pax and staff with utter contempt whilst applauding there cost cutting strategies.
Furious passengers unleash on Qantas after flight attendants exposed the shocking secrets of Australia's national carrier: 'You need to do better' |
Originally Posted by cLeArIcE
(Post 11241741)
I don't ever recall QF getting bagged in the media, on travel forums and social media as much as they have been for the last few months. Surely, (eventually) some of the mud being flung must stick on Joyce and co. How long can they go on treating pax and staff with utter contempt whilst applauding there cost cutting strategies.
Furious passengers unleash on Qantas after flight attendants exposed the shocking secrets of Australia's national carrier: 'You need to do better' The lies continue & unless the decision of a court is in their favour,it is of course WRONG. If anybody complains,whether it be passengers,workers or unions,they of course are wrong too. It was once a great place to work but thats long gone. |
With some allowances, bonus and picking up an extra day of work a roster |
Originally Posted by tossbag
(Post 11242159)
riiiiiiight, so picking up an extra days flying boosts your bottom line remuneration, keeps you out of the race to the bottom? So if your income starts to lag a bit, just pick up an extra 2 days flying. When inflation hits 8-10% just pick up maybe 3 extra days.
Now some may wish to work on average 3.5 days per week, which equates to about 75 hours per roster. Straight up that’s an extra 10% for roughly one extra day per roster. If you work more you get paid more, it’s a pretty simple concept. However if you just work a standard roster you’re still making a considerable amount of money compared to the average income earner, comparable to mining engineers, lawyers and a lot of medical professionals. |
Keep telling yourself that.
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Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 11242470)
If you work a standard roster under current conditions without any extra flying, at average credit it’s an average of 3.2 days per week. Less than the standard 5 day work week. For that you get a salary which is about triple the Australian average salary, and puts you in the top 3% of Australian income earners. And that’s not including allowances or the bonus.
Now some may wish to work on average 3.5 days per week, which equates to about 75 hours per roster. Straight up that’s an extra 10% for roughly one extra day per roster. If you work more you get paid more, it’s a pretty simple concept. However if you just work a standard roster you’re still making a considerable amount of money compared to the average income earner, comparable to mining engineers, lawyers and a lot of medical professionals. FFS the KRviatrix is an accountant, she works from home, is barely out of her PJ's by 1000 and earns not that much less than your exemplar Effo. And if she could be bothered, and became a executive or partner-type at KPMG or Deloitte, she'd be on similar coin to your skipper - and not have to deal with CAsA, the Doc for a Class 1 or the security muppets just to get to work! Face facts, flying commercially in Oz is no longer worth it - it hasn't been for at least the last decade, and unless you're in it for the satisfaction of helping people, a'la RFDS or CareFlight, you're going to be far better off in another career and flying for fun, in your own time. Don't believe me? Run a search on 'Prune for the phrase "Race to the bottom" and see how many times it crops up.... |
Originally Posted by KRviator
(Post 11242490)
So....uuhhh...how long does it take to get to such a shiny jet?.
FFS the KRviatrix is an accountant, she works from home, is barely out of her PJ's by 1000 and earns not that much less than your exemplar Effo. And if she could be bothered, and became a executive or partner-type at KPMG or Deloitte, she'd be on similar coin to your skipper - and not have to deal with CAsA, the Doc for a Class 1 or the security muppets just to get to work!\ |
And if she could be bothered, and became a executive or partner-type at KPMG or Deloitte, she'd be on similar coin to your skipper - and not have to deal with CAsA, the Doc for a Class 1 or the security muppets just to get to work! |
Originally Posted by KRviator
(Post 11242490)
FFS the KRviatrix is an accountant, she works from home, is barely out of her PJ's by 1000 and earns not that much less than your exemplar Effo. And if she could be bothered, and became a executive or partner-type at KPMG or Deloitte, she'd be on similar coin to your skipper - and not have to deal with CAsA, the Doc for a Class 1 or the security muppets just to get to work!
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If you work a standard roster under current conditions without any extra flying, at average credit it’s an average of 3.2 days per week. Less than the standard 5 day work week. So what? For that you get a salary which is about triple the Australian average salary, and puts you in the top 3% of Australian income earners. And that’s not including allowances or the bonus. Now some may wish to work on average 3.5 days per week, which equates to about 75 hours per roster. Straight up that’s an extra 10% for roughly one extra day per roster. If you work more you get paid more, it’s a pretty simple concept. However if you just work a standard roster you’re still making a considerable amount of money compared to the average income earner, comparable to mining engineers, lawyers and a lot of medical professionals. So, to ensure you're keeping up with the better paid pilot positions you just work more hours? |
Nobody wants to be an accountant |
Originally Posted by tossbag
(Post 11243099)
So what?
Again........so what? You're actually being serious trying to justify working extra, above your agreement, to make yourself look like you're getting paid more? So, to ensure you're keeping up with the better paid pilot positions you just work more hours? Serious question, again. But other than the LHEA, which it has been categorically stated was never under consideration, what are these ‘better paid pilot positions’? |
Originally Posted by tossbag
(Post 11243099)
You're actually being serious trying to justify working extra, above your agreement, to make yourself look like you're getting paid more?
So, to ensure you're keeping up with the better paid pilot positions you just work more hours? You won’t find a better paid domestic pilot position in the country, and very few global narrowbody non-contract positions would match pay. SH F/O rates after 4 years are similar to AA/DL 738 F/O rates after 6 years, although the US carriers have a few more yearly increments to nudge it up a bit more but not significantly so. I just added in the extra hours pay as an example of what possible salary could be if you chose i to extra hours, but vice versa you can drop hours and have more time off if you so wish. Or just work the standard hours. Your choice. So I’m failing to see these “better paid pilot positions” most of the people applying for mainline should be flocking to instead. |
Serious question, again. But other than the LHEA, which it has been categorically stated was never under consideration, what are these ‘better paid pilot positions’? |
From a supply and demand perspective there’s plenty out there who are willing to take these positions. Perhaps you could suggest to the REX pilots that they work an extra 4 days on top of the 4 or so they're rostered to make up for the last 4 years of tripe. 8 day week sounds reasonable. |
Originally Posted by tossbag
(Post 11243174)
I'm talking about global comparisons, there are plenty of positions that pay more. And while Australians are trading down their remuneration a lot of those positions are negotiating better conditions.
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