Also been reports there are protest against his invasion. So what support does he have. Now he has made the threat of nuclear attack if he launches one of those it will be on WW3.

That's all it is. A threat. No leader is going to launch a nuclear weapon, of any description, these days because they know full well that doing so is to invite a nuclear attack on their own country.

Putin might be egotistical and may have overestimated the ease with which this little skirmish would play out, but he is not stupid. He knows full well the global condemnation that would befall Russia should he launch such an attack, and it wouldn't just be words this time, but likely complete isolation of Russia as a country. But on the opposite side of the coin, were the Ukraine to launch one (if they had any...), I think they would be forgiven for doing so, given they didn't start this kerfuffle.

Build a “wall” around Russia and their mates in China, freeze all international dealings and hope he is overthrown by his own people. The airspace should be treated as unflyable.

I'm not so sure about Putin - he's showing serious signs of being mentally unstable. It's pretty questionable that a sane person would have launched the invasion, and his threats leading up to it and especially after the invasion was launched really bring his sanity into question.
No telling what someone in his apparent mental state might do as this turns into an unmitigated disaster for both him and Russia. I just hope and pray that if Vlad does elect to play the nuke card, cooler minds will immediately remove him from power.

Well he destroyed the AN-225, he is capable of anything.

No dealings with China, right then, forget shopping for a while, are you wearing anything NOT made in China. When Covid hit we needed masks and PPE for goodness sake. We RELY on what they supply. Not to mention what we SELL them in raw materials.

His timing and strategy is not indicative of an unstable man. The world is not a friendly warm and fuzzy place, he is doing what is best for Russia, taking back what is theirs and building a buffer from NATO forces.
The US invaded Libya why? Certainly not to help Libya. What about Iraq and those pesky non existent WMD?

Wake up and smell the roses, the Cold War never ended. Russian agents poisoning people in the UK ring a bell?

When exactly did that happen. NATO went after Libya, then had to ask for US assistance.

Actually it wasn’t even NATO to begin with but a “coalition of the willing”. Neither fact alters the basic point, “Western” countries have their share of invading other countries when it suits them. Here have some freedom…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_m...ntion_in_Libya

Oh my, that will be inconvenient!!
It’s pretty clear what Russia and China are doing. Stopping them won’t be achieved through diplomacy and the only other options are either economic or military. I think most people would think the economic option is most palatable initially, although I do think the military option will be forced upon the world whether we like it or not. These two leaders are not stable people.

The airspace should be closed in any case.

GordonFR…I agree with your assessment. There are two ways to resolve this, either Ukraine surrender territory, all or part to Russia, or there is a land war with Russia. Do you think sleepy Joe and Kamala (here are my pronouns) Harris are up for that? NATO are scared of starting WW3.
So assuming Putin gets all or part of Ukraine, which country is next? Getting close to NATO line here.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8ed6d45ad1.png

It's been made clear if he steps foot in a NATO country that it's on like Donkey Kong.

And it won’t be a multi year war if Putin gets his way, it will be over in about a week.

An accurate perspective

You're a big boy/girl. Don't like it? Don't read it.

Are you forgetting where you are? You're on a social media site, you're on aviation facebook. If you want intelligent, reasoned debate you're in the wrong place.

If Putin wants a buffer against NATO, why is he moving west TOWARDS it?

And can you imagine how it would play out if that other lunatic Trump was still Prez, with his erratic finger on the red button.

Because then Ukraine as a non NATO country becomes a buffer between Russia and NATO.

There is an argument that Putin waited until after Trump because he knew that Trump was just crazy enough to send troops in. Biden is unlikely to do anything more than wet the bed.

You know what else China supplied? Covid.

This cannot be a serious statement.

Precisely how is invading a free, independent and sovereign nation that poses absolutely no threat to Russia, "doing whats best for Russia". Look at the consequences. The ruble is in freefall, inflation is currently around 70%, the people have been limited to ATM withdrawals of $20 to avoid a run on the banks further destroying the economy. They are cut off from their international foreign currency reserves, their banks and major institutions are cutoff from SWIIFT and unable to do business, the airspace of the entire western world is now closed to Russian aircraft. And the suffering has only just started. I won't even bother mentioning the thousands of dead Russian soldiers, the majority of whom seem to be bordering on children.

Russia is rapidly becoming a pariah state, like NK and Iran.

Yeh, Putin is doing whats 'best' for Russia alright.


Whats 'theirs'? What the hell exactly is 'theirs'. What is literally the first point of the Budapest Memorandum, signed by Russia in 94?

>Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.

Explain to me how a single inch of Ukraine is 'theirs'. That the Russians want a buffer to NATO does not legitimize their efforts to create one.

Oh of course, the tried and true US whataboutism that is trotted out by every Putin lapdog whenever the inexcusable actions of their Government are brought into focus.

Putin is a psychopathic kleptocratic lunatic, bent on restoring the soviet empire. There would be few people on earth who care less about the welfare of the Russian people than him, given his course of stealing everything they own over the last 20 years, and now taking action that has effectively condemned them to economic hardship for a generation or more.

Absolutely nothing about his current course of action is justified, warranted or even sane. The only safe way out of this mess is for his circle of power to realize the path we are on and to drag him out of his Ural mountains bunker and hang the bastard.

Slava Ukraini

Well thankfully we live in a country that allows us to have different views. No one gets shot for that here.

And yet you shill for a country that doesn't. Disgraceful.

Not shot, no, but certainly arrested for it. Who can forget that pregnant bird in Victoria who got pulled out of her own home for "incitement" - for encouraging others to protest against Danistan's pandemic directions...And let's not forget it was an unelected bureaucrat who made those orders curtailing peoples freedoms, it wasn't the Government of the day...

When you can be arrested for merely planning or simply encouraging a peaceful protest against a Government decision or action, yet alone actually participating in one, are we all that different to Russia, really?

Where did I say I thought Vlad was doing the right thing? Critical thinking is really a lost art. Take a look at what he is doing from the Russian history perspective rather than just consuming the woke media portrayal of him as some crazed lunatic. I think the invasion is appalling but I see what he doing rather than seeing a crazed megalomaniac.

If you can't see a crazed megalomaniac then your 'critical thinking' is a little skew-iff.

When you write that Russia is "taking what is theirs" and putin is "doing what is best for Russia". You are a shill for Putin, and a complete disgrace. None of what you wrote is phrased in a way that says you're simply presenting the Russian side of the argument, if such a thing even exists. You assert it as objective fact. When your weak as piss 'argument' is challenged, you capitulate with nothing more than 'agree to disagree'.

A critical thought hasn't crossed the diminished synapses of your brain in a very long time I'd wager.

The unbelievable arrogance to assert that my position, my understanding of current events could only be arrived at through superficial consumption of 'woke media'. And I thought you couldn't disgrace yourself further. My understanding of these events goes well beyond what I saw on "TMZ", you blithering pompous idiot. The Russian perspective may present insight into why these actions have taken place, but critically, any rational educated person would understand that this doesn't excuse their illegal and murderous conduct. Is the only reason you disagree with the Nazis that you don't understand their perspective? :rolleyes:

And of course again, you defend the character of Putin, denying that he is a lunatic, despite him threatening to literally end all life on earth, to destroy the entire f'in planet should they come to the aid of a sovereign, free and democratic nation that he is currently invading.

You know what they say about the worth of any statement that is followed by "but" ?

You're a pathetic Putin shill, a disgrace to this board. There is no excuse, no justification, nothing at all that justifies what is happening to the people of Ukraine right now. Any attempt to do so merely marks one as an enemy of the liberal and free population of the world.

Gosh, you really are hanging on quite tightly. Relax. Nothing we do here in Australia will affect the outcome.

So saying that “ Russia is taking what is theirs” refers to Vlad’s point of view. I do not think it is theirs to take and as I said, repeating for clarity, I think the invasion is appalling. He clearly believes that NOW is the time to invade, he has had thirty thousand troops there on the border for nearly a year. If he was crazy it is a very long drawn out craziness, which implies strategy. Why not just invade when “his mate” Trump was in office? Thereby assuring himself an easy reaction from the US? Have a think about that.
As to him doing “ what is best for Russia” I believe that HE believes that is what he is doing. The current RUB crash and the financial punishments will not last very long. Especially since Europe needs his gas. Can you imagine for one minute what would happen in Europe if he turned of gas supply? A very cold spring ahead I think. Any world leader wants to increase their empire, except Trudeau perhaps who knows what he wants. So accessing the trade route through Ukraine, their mineral reserves and access to ports is all a strategic win for Russia, which will last much longer than the sanctions.
As far as the western alliance response? Sleepy Joe will not even declare a no fly zone as he would not want to enforce it. Ukraine has specifically asked for a NFZ. What about the EU and their NATO allies? Very quiet n’est pas.
I may disagree with you but I will defend your right to say it. Personal attacks on me do you no credit, try playing the ball not the man.

Finally; the world is a tragedy to those who feel and a comedy to those who think - Horace Walpole 1769

> Personal attacks on me do you no credit, try playing the ball not the man.

There is no ball to play, you have no argument. You're a pathetic shill. Watching you back peddle out of your absurd posturing has been most entertaining. "I wAs jUsT prESenTinG thE RusSian PerspEctIve".

Explain to me again how a person who has repeatedly threatened to destroy the entire world and murder every single person in it, is not a lunatic. I'll wait.

As for the rest of your drivel predicting the future financial position of Russia, nothing more than the musings of an idiot. The Ruble crash will not last very long?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7003ed5220.png


Yeh, look at that Ruble go, recovery will be any minute now... aaaanny minute now.

Russia is being sent back to the stone age. If you think this is a temporary or transient occurrence, that Russia will have markets to operate in anytime soon, you're even dumber than I thought.

I want to hear out of your mouth that you agree there is absolutely no justification, no excuse at all for Russia's conduct here. Their perspective, their viewpoint is utterly irrelevant. Say that and I'll believe your protestations that you find the invasion appalling. Otherwise, its just more maneuvering.