PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
-   -   Psychometric testing (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/644577-psychometric-testing.html)

Skippy69 9th Jan 2022 09:29

Psychometric testing
 
Heard that there are some higher up GA or even aero med companies now conducting these tests pre employment. They've obviously been in the airlines a while (Jetstar's maybe no so good)- so what are the opinions etc? Do they work or what are they looking for?

TimmyTee 9th Jan 2022 10:49

Best bet is learn how to fit into a quota, then the tests won't matter

Uplinker 9th Jan 2022 12:44

I cannot see their worth for selecting pilots, since the tests bear no relation to the flying task.

They test for intelligence, which is fair enough, airlines or aircraft operators do not want to employ dim people. A dim person could have good hand-eye coordination, but a pilot needs also to have intelligence to deal with all the peripheral tasks outside actually flying a plane: fuelling and loading calculations, delay management, team work, knowledge of limitations, procedures, rules and regulations etc.

But when they put very tight time limits on the tests, I am pretty sure that they are being used as a proxy for age. As we get older, our thought processes slow down because, like a computer whose hard disk is nearly full, our thought processing involves going through more memory content than when one is younger.

Age discrimination is illegal in most countries, so I think airlines develop ways of selecting the younger candidates, and I think they do this through tightly timed tests. At one airline, we had to do 25 or so maths questions in 12 minutes, and a similar tight restriction on a verbal comprehension test. One important thing pilots are taught is that in an emergency don't do anything quickly; sit on your hands, assess all the information carefully. DODAR etc.

The only things pilots need to do quickly is get the rudder in to keep straight on the runway during an engine failure; operate the flight controls when landing in a turbulent crosswind, or do an RTO. These are all physical actions, involving hand-eye coordination, not answering maths or verbal questions, or whether you like poetry or guns.

So to have to pass time-limited computer based puzzles and tests cannot be anything to do with pilot ability. They are arguably fair enough for newbies applying for their first jobs, but any pilot with decent experience has proved their psychometric ability already.

NaFenn 9th Jan 2022 23:32

Having worked for a company that did psycometric testng for flight training... its a waste of time if not implemented properly. Because it was a university looking at the data - they were only interested in the score and nothing else. So 2 students that I had who were by far the hardest I have had (Neither of which made it to first solo) got onto the course because, although they were flagged in the interview as not likely to be successful, were entered into the course because they had a perfect score on the aptitude test. Both students were academically very intelligent but could not transfer that to hands on flying.

Torukmacto 9th Jan 2022 23:37

All the airlines I’ve worked for never did psychometric testing and it showed and it was great , some really great characters who could fly .

lucille 9th Jan 2022 23:40

As soon as someone can define what a “good” pilot is then maybe psychometric testing may be of value.

Ladloy 9th Jan 2022 23:52

It's generally a filter for HR and lines the pocket of people like Kirsty from Pinstripes. Once you start buying ways to cheat the test, they're virtually useless.

airdualbleedfault 9th Jan 2022 23:59

Maybe, underline maybe, for culling purposes if you're hiring cadets or people with little or no time in the industry but for pilots who have 10,15 years plus in major airlines and have unblemished records? Complete and utter BS. Airlines that are tied to Phsyc tests because of the useful idiots in the parent company HR dept are missing out on great opportunities to hire good people with real world experience because of that useless test

unobtanium 10th Jan 2022 04:15


Originally Posted by lucille (Post 11167783)
As soon as someone can define what a “good” pilot is then maybe psychometric testing may be of value.

I would say being able to solve problems quickly when under pressure would be a good start.

neville_nobody 10th Jan 2022 07:21


It's generally a filter for HR and lines the pocket of people like Kirsty from Pinstripes. Once you start buying ways to cheat the test, they're virtually useless.
Yes once everyone is getting coached on how to pass the exams it defeats the purpose as it isn't a genuine result.

Uplinker 10th Jan 2022 10:37


Originally Posted by unobtanium (Post 11167835)
I would say being able to solve problems quickly when under pressure would be a good start.

Professional transport pilots are taught NOT to rush or do things quickly in emergencies; that was my point.

Time is taken to correctly and calmly identify a failed engine for example or feather the correct prop. Even a TCAS or GPWS escape manoeuvre or a go-around should not be rushed, just performed properly and calmly.

I suspect that HR people - not being pilots - go by what they see in films and believe that pilots should fly the way they did in Top Gun, and other aircraft disaster movies.

Torukmacto 10th Jan 2022 10:46

The really good ones seem to be one step ahead of pressure.

das Uber Soldat 10th Jan 2022 21:08


Originally Posted by Uplinker (Post 11167550)
But when they put very tight time limits on the tests, I am pretty sure that they are being used as a proxy for age. As we get older, our thought processes slow down because, like a computer whose hard disk is nearly full, our thought processing involves going through more memory content than when one is younger.

I got a genuine laugh out of this.

The ageing process of the brain has nothing to do with the fact you have 'more memory content'.

Psychometric testing looks at one aspect of a pilots competencies. It doesn't claim that it covers them all, so your example where people 'aced the test' but couldn't fly is a meaningless straw man.


Originally Posted by Uplinker
The only things pilots need to do quickly is get the rudder in to keep straight on the runway during an engine failure; operate the flight controls when landing in a turbulent crosswind, or do an RTO. These are all physical actions, involving hand-eye coordination, not answering maths or verbal questions, or whether you like poetry or guns.


The only things? Really? So when we get an ECAM/equivalent at V1 - 20kts you've got all the time in the world to assess, analyze and make a critical decision do you? Personally, if I'm sitting in the hold over my recently closed destination on min fuel looking for alternates, maybe with weather, I'm happier sitting next to someone who can quickly do the math, rather than old mate who wants to sit on his hands because a bit of time pressure buckles his/her/its ability to do the 3 times tables.

Dookie on Drums 10th Jan 2022 23:41


Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat (Post 11168218)
Personally, if I'm sitting in the hold over my recently closed destination on min fuel looking for alternates, maybe with weather, I'm happier sitting next to someone who can quickly do the math, rather than old mate who wants to sit on his hands because a bit of time pressure buckles his/her/its ability to do the 3 times tables.

I would have hoped that being the prudent pilot that you are, you would have already planned for this and not painted yourself into a corner in the first place. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. 6 P's etc.

ULH Extreme 11th Jan 2022 00:15

Many yrs ago when i joined the RAAF, One cadet aced ground school and then bombed out in the first stages of flying, taught us a lesson. 20 yrs later i did a stanine test in the US for World Airways , 4 guys failed, all Irish and they were all good operators. We all reckoned they failed on the low side and HR got rid of them. In the nineties i flew with a bloke who was a genius, IQ through the roof, failed every attempt at Command.

Stationair8 11th Jan 2022 00:20

I thought psychometric testing, determined your ability to spend a lot of your cash, to sell your soul for a minimum wage, so that one day you may get your dream job flying a jet.

das Uber Soldat 11th Jan 2022 02:05


Originally Posted by Dookie on Drums (Post 11168283)
I would have hoped that being the prudent pilot that you are, you would have already planned for this and not painted yourself into a corner in the first place. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. 6 P's etc.

You fly a commercial airliner and carry alternate fuel for every destination regardless of weather?

I need to hear more about this.

Uplinker 11th Jan 2022 16:13


Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat (Post 11168218)

The only things? Really? So when we get an ECAM/equivalent at V1 - 20kts you've got all the time in the world to assess, analyze and make a critical decision do you?

Have another read of my words - that you actually quoted - before weighing in: I cited an RTO as something we do need to do quickly :D

As for your mate not being able to do the three times table........... huh ? :ugh: And are you telling us that you don't do DODAR or anything in emergencies; you just make a snap decision?

I think Stationair8 has given us the real reason for psychometric testing.

Xeptu 11th Jan 2022 16:55

In my experience the best pilots are the ones that get the comments "he can fly" or "he's the one you want to be with" they are usually the ones that don't go unnoticed.

Keg 11th Jan 2022 20:15


Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat (Post 11168218)

Psychometric testing looks at one aspect of a pilots competencies. It doesn't claim that it covers them all…

Yet in many cases they make up a very significant part of the selection process- if not all of it when it comes to many cadet pilot schemes.


All times are GMT. The time now is 22:05.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.