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-   -   Project Winton- Airbus (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/644222-project-winton-airbus.html)

dr dre 30th Jun 2022 03:20

Both EBAs donít expire for another 12-18 months, and then negotiations usually take a year, so finalised deals wonít be voted on for another 2-3 years. A different environment will exist then.

Plus a smart negotiating team can technically comply with a wage freeze policy but find smart ways to reach a deal the pilot group can find palatable. Just requires some time.

kiwi grey 30th Jun 2022 03:42

And you're only looking back 20 years.
If you go back to the 1970s & 1980s, inflation was much, much higher than recently

Hawk Circle 1st Jul 2022 02:45


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11253837)
Plus a smart negotiating team can technically comply with a wage freeze policy but find smart ways to reach a deal the pilot group can find palatable. Just requires some time.

Meanwhile in 2022:
United (Mainline) Pilots get 14.5% pay raise - Business Insider
American Airlines (Mainline) Pilots offered nearly 17% pay raise - CNBC

Pedalz 1st Jul 2022 06:14

CPI dosen't take into account the sky rocketing real estate market (existing dwellings) either... take a look at 1900-1980 vs 2000-2020 for the J curve. And the shortage of rentals for the younger ones near most bases is becoming an issue.

Thumb War 1st Jul 2022 06:17


Originally Posted by Hawk Circle (Post 11254370)
Meanwhile in 2022:
United (Mainline) Pilots get 14.5% pay raise - Business Insider
American Airlines (Mainline) Pilots offered nearly 17% pay raise - CNBC


I hear the United union arenít pleased with 14.5% in light of the better offer made to AA

SHVC 4th Jul 2022 10:11

QF and group better pick their act up quick smart otherwise there will be no punters left to fly on them. Pi$$ing so many ppl off each day the latest, knowingly departing Sydney for Wellington then diverting to Christchurch because of curfew. Telling lax to grab a couch and get comfy. Hope AJ holiday is most excellent.

Not hearing such from VA pax must be running smoothly there.

dr dre 4th Jul 2022 12:55


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11255903)

Not hearing such from VA pax must be running smoothly there.

BITRE on time departure data for May had VA group at 64% OTP vs QF group at 61.5%. Not ideal and should be doing better but VA had a similar fall in OTP compare to QF.

Photos from Sydney T2, pretty chaotic and it mostly seems to be at the VA check in. A quick perusal of the VA FB page shows lots of angry comments regarding flight delays, cancellations, baggage issues, call centre wait times, overbooking etc.

And a perusal of news sites shows cancellations and delays all across the northern hemisphere this summer. This isnít making any excuses for whatís happening atm, I think all airlines need to do better, but itís not a problem confined to just one airline in one country.

I remember in 2011 everyone was saying that would be the end of QF too, everyone would flock to VA. What ended up happening?


JoeTripodi 4th Jul 2022 14:02

Not only the punters are leaving Qantas, there is currently a max exodus of pilots from the group headed to the USA.

Thumb War 4th Jul 2022 16:07


Originally Posted by JoeTripodi (Post 11256064)
Not only the punters are leaving Qantas, there is currently a max exodus of pilots from the group headed to the USA.

They should all be applauded. Employees voting with their feet is the only thing that makes airline management think about coughing up a few more dollars

gordonfvckingramsay 5th Jul 2022 04:41


Originally Posted by Thumb War (Post 11256125)
They should all be applauded. Employees voting with their feet is the only thing that makes airline management think about coughing up a few more dollars

A few more dollars? When companies like Atlas are throwing numbers around that would give AJ heartburn, itís clear that there will need to be HUUUUGE incentives.

tossbag 5th Jul 2022 05:05

Huge numbers leaving? Really?

C441 5th Jul 2022 08:27


Originally Posted by JoeTripodi (Post 11256064)
Not only the punters are leaving Qantas, there is currently a max exodus of pilots from the group headed to the USA.

Would I be right in guessing that's mainly from non-mainline group entities with a few less-senior S/O's from Longhaul?

I believe most US operators wont take an ex-Qantas group pilot unless they resign; that is not acceptable if on LWOP.

dr dre 5th Jul 2022 15:01


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 11256464)
Would I be right in guessing that's mainly from non-mainline group entities with a few less-senior S/O's from Longhaul?

I believe most US operators wont take an ex-Qantas group pilot unless they resign; that is not acceptable if on LWOP.

I havenít heard of a single current mainline pilot resigning to go to a US regional (legacy carriers only on offer for those with green cards). Even if there were it would be a single digit number only.

I suspect a few who took VR may have taken up a contract to fly for Atlas for a couple of years, but only after a VR package, and pretty much everyone who took VR had less than 5 years to go to retirement anyway. Thereís certainly no ďexodusĒ.

Thumb War 5th Jul 2022 15:57

Know of 1 mainline S/O currently going through the process. I think as said by a previous poster it would more likely be from other group companies.

LostWanderer 6th Jul 2022 03:42


Originally Posted by Thumb War (Post 11256680)
Know of 1 mainline S/O currently going through the process. I think as said by a previous poster it would more likely be from other group companies.

Have heard from buddies over there now that there are indeed a number of QF S/Os jumping from the rat to a few different US regionals, I guess they like to actually fly airplanes. Wouldn't be shocked if a bunch of expats are bouncing back to oz as well though.

Vindiesel 6th Jul 2022 03:57


Originally Posted by LostWanderer (Post 11256961)
Have heard from buddies over there now that there are indeed a number of QF S/Os jumping from the rat to a few different US regionals, I guess they like to actually fly airplanes. Wouldn't be shocked if a bunch of expats are bouncing back to oz as well though.

If they want to "actually fly airlplaes" then it's a very quick path to becoming a 737 F/O in mainline and able to make ~180-200k on comfortable hours. Seems a lot better than flogging around for a second tier US carrier.

stillcallozhome 6th Jul 2022 04:08


Originally Posted by Vindiesel (Post 11256963)
If they want to "actually fly airlplaes" then it's a very quick path to becoming a 737 F/O in mainline and able to make ~180-200k on comfortable hours. Seems a lot better than flogging around for a second tier US carrier.

Nope. Theyíll make more at the regionals over there and have better conditions than Qf 737. Cancellation pay - youíre paid a minimum of what your initial roster is published at. Duty and trip rigs. Four hotels a month if you commute. Bonuses. Better flying. More destinations. Far better atc and procedures. List goes onÖ.

But this is probably more appropriate on the thread for US regionals.

SIDS N STARS 6th Jul 2022 06:43

A220/B717 CPT @ DL on $350K/AUD... maybe $100K more than what QF will pay NJS?? Multiplied by X number of years... that's a lot of beer

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...lta_air_lines#

stillcallozhome 6th Jul 2022 07:34


Originally Posted by SIDS N STARS (Post 11256992)
A220/B717 CPT @ DL on $350K/AUD... maybe $100K more than what QF will pay NJS?? Multiplied by X number of years... that's a lot of beer

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...lta_air_lines#

Not really applicable as thatís a legacy and wonít take E3 applicants. Speaking more to the regionals that are offering over $150p/h for 1st year FO with huge bonuses up to 60k on top. I believe these were introduced with an August 2024 expiry so would suit well to go for a brief period. Regionals over there are rarely career destinations anymore. More a stepping stone to legacy or fedex/ups etc.

bazza stub 6th Jul 2022 08:13


Originally Posted by SIDS N STARS (Post 11256992)
A220/B717 CPT @ DL on $350K/AUD... maybe $100K more than what QF will pay NJS?? Multiplied by X number of years... that's a lot of beer

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...lta_air_lines#


I believe the data on the NJS salary is incorrect. NJS pilots are not on $100k less than $350k. They donít even crack $200k


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