much of world reopening in March 2021
 

what about Australia ?

It seems cases of that virus so low in Qld, they are searching thru sewerage for traces

WTTC forecasts return of 100 million tourism jobs (travelmole.com)

Rather than Australia, take a gander at the continuing infection rate and deaths in the northern hemisphere.

March 2021 they say. As Australian royalty once said ‘tell him he’s dreaming!’

The virus has peaked. Cases are starting to continually run under the seven day average in countries where they’ve started vaccinating people. Deaths are still high but they lag behind cases and they’ll soon be on the decline as well. Not sure if it’s the vaccine or the virus running out of steam on its own. Either way, I think we’ve turned the corner and can start looking forward to better days.

Of course it doesn’t help when Brendan Murphy is on tv saying that he doesn’t think we can open borders even with a vaccinated population. If someone could explain that logic to me that would be appreciated.

I would be the first person to welcome world travel. I certainly miss well... travel!

Interestingly -

QF have LHR flights available from July.
Jetstar have flights DRW to SIN from March 29th.

Now I know this has been discussed in other threads, but really, March? Seriously is this not taking the p*ss???


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....34fd5bd64.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b96efe45e.jpeg

WTTC prediction is not bullish, it's dreamtiming. Anticipating a 17% downfall compared to 2019 is ridiculous. Australia may have the virus under control (good job BTW) but even if Europe/USA are fully vaccinated by mid year, the net reduction in income is going to severely affect travel for years.
Some jobs are never going to return, online shopping/working has moved forward exponentially due to the pandemic so high street retail is going to shrink even further (and it wasn't in good shape before the pandemic).
That's just one example, think pubs, theatre, cinema, tourism, office real estate and you're scratching the surface.

That’s a fairly easy explanation. Mr Murphy’s job is solely related to health related results. Any risk potentially jeopardizes those results even if social and financial results greatly surpass the ‘cost’ in our eyes.

We have a funny attitude toward risk and consequence in our industry.
We manage small to medium risk incredibly well however we don’t typically face litigation issues in the public eye when significant pilot error is raised because we generally don’t survive to be litigated!
Unlike in most other industries where the appetite for risk has reduced to basically zero to the point that people are too afraid to make decisions.

why not ? 24 hours is a very long time in politics. It's got nothing to do with health anymore.

so how do we know the actual deaths rate from corona cf. old age ? We don't. All we have is dodgy media beating this up.

The problem is if inbound 14 day quarantine is still a requirement... What about the caps?

I’ll certainly be one of the first to travel when I can.

I do agree 24 minutes is a lifetime in Aussie politics!

no quarantine for inbound kiwis

So much BNEA320 alters in this thread, I wonder how many of his numerous accounts will post here.

look at excess mortality figures for different countries. This doesn't record cause of death just is a comparison of current deaths compared to expected averages. It is way above average. Based on that something is killing people at a rate even higher than the official covid counts.

Look at freezer trucks parked outside hospitals in many cities in the UK and US because there isn't enough room in the mortuaries. Look at the occupancy of ICU beds compared to normal. Something is making people sicker and is killing people at a (much) higher rate than normal.

I am struggling to avoid being sarcastic but when I see photos of what is happening in hospitals in the UK and US and hear the stories of everyday nurses and doctors on the front line of this (ie not the media or politicians) and their heartbreaking stories and courage to keep going, I shake my head when people start trying to say it is all a myth. The dodgy media is not 'all we have'. Go and visit a hospital ICU in London or SF if you want to prove your case that it is all just a beat up. Talk to the people who are in the front line and tell them they are just beating things up.

rant off

Thanks BNEA320 for starting another thread talking about exactly the same stuff.

Very original.

Keep in mind that the number of excess deaths is not all covid. People are skipping normal preventive medical care and in some locations most elective medical procedures were stopped. In addition mental health issues have led to a increase in suicide. Another thing is that the flu season is non existent! In the US hospitals get additional funds for covid patients but not for flu patients. Virtually no flu deaths. Perhaps some are being miss categorized!

Sailvi767,

Fair point but there is an element of you making the case for Covid. Because healthcare is at breaking point dealing with Covid, non-critical cases are not being seen, very few people are skipping appointments because they are gold dust and you literally could be dead before the next one; having said that some folk are fearful of getting Covid and are not calling in health issues, even though most doctors are doing virtual surgeries.
Covid is a prime factor in many mental health issues, stuck at home, unable to socialise and in a lot of cases concerns about money, job etc.

Covid is the killer, directly or indirectly.

March is optimistic, that’s only 6 weeks time, although I do expect travel to be allowed by Easter, is there really very much extra infection by international travel compared with infection transmission within the UK. We are seeing a peak now, vaccination is in full swing, there is every chance of a steep decline, the next 4 weeks will tell us, if deaths are still high it’s going to be a long haul.

Travel isn't going to be allowed by Easter in my view.

What we are going to see is an "at all costs" approach to protecting the progress made through vaccination. In effect this means seriously tough measures at the borders to prevent any vaccine resistant strain entering the UK [insert other country here]. I think travel will only open up when other countries see their levels of infection drop dramatically such that the chance of importing anything nasty is deemed to be negligible.

I think everyone thought with these vaccines coming along that 2021 could be a good year. What is becoming clear is that it won't be and this is all going to take a lot longer than we thought.

From what I have read, there is a strong belief amongst some in the medical/scientific community that the virus is still able to be carried and spread by those vaccinated to those who are not.

If this has has even the slightest possibility of happening, nothing other than very few “bubble” destinations will be open for travel in the next 6-8 or even 12 months unless the government pulls off a miracle and vaccinates the entire country, studies the effectiveness and finds no risks for reopening travel overseas by June. Basically it’s in “tell him he’s dreaming” territory.

London, the US, Japan and most other destinations at all this year in my opinion is extremely unlikely to happen, other than the odd repatriation, charter or maybe a cargo run. Hope to be proven wrong so I can get out of my sh##ty side hustle and back to the skies.

I sort of wonder why I'm bothering replying to another pointless BNEA320 (aka Sybil) thread. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, he continues to believe that int'l travel is going to return to 2019 levels at any tick of the clock. He seems to believe Covid is a giant hoax solely created so he can't have a skiing trip to Whistler this northern winter.

The facts are QF has opened bookings from 1/7 but the government has been clear that they will control the border reopening not QF and 1/7 is not a realistic date and won't happen. Brendan Murphy (head of Health Dept and former CHO) has clearly stated he doesn't believe there will be any meaningful int'l travel in 2021. The Australian vaccination program is due to run throughout the year with an aim for all willing Australians to be vaccinated by the end of October. From October, the government will evaluate how other countries are progressing with their vaccination programs including the CoVax program which is aimed to deliver vaccines to poorer countries. Only then, will they consider reopening the border to quarantine-free travel.

At the same time, the world through the WHO, UN and all international airlines has to develop a system whereby vaccination statuses can be checked by countries for all passengers prior to embarkation. This will probably be via some sort of tracking within e-passports but getting a common system across all countries within 10 months is quite a challenge.

so you are saying the reason that ICUs are overflowing with people suffering acute respiratory distress, hospitals are running short of oxygen and they are parking freezer trucks for dead bodies outside hospitals in a country that regularly describes itself as having the most advanced health care capability in the world, is because: it is the flu, that there is a higher number of suicides and because people aren't having elective procedures or are skipping regular health checks and the alternative explanation (that there is a viral infection that has traveled world wide) is all a huge conspiracy by the world's media, hospital administrators across the globe and most of the world's politicians and most nations health authorities for some unspecified (but I assume nefarious) reason. Is that correct?

A world wide viral infection seems way more believable to me. Maybe I am just gullible though .

Or you are trolling in which case well played, 'cause I bit.

Whilst I can understand various airlines wanting to get some 'cash flow' dollars in, by advertising these fares available.....I wonder just what their 'provisions' are for granting an IMMEDIATE FULL REFUND if / when said advertised flights fail to eventuate?

Just curious us all......

There is little doubt that they are selling these fares in breach of the Trade Practices Act in that they are accepting funds for the provision of goods and services that they have no likelihood of being able to fulfil.

yep.

and as expected and so obviously, we now have leaks of the Japanese government cancelling the Olympic Games.

anyone seriously saying that Australians or anyone will be flying to the UK, mainland Europe, the USA etc in July is utterly deluded.

Singapore is a maybe perhaps. As potentially are places like NZ or Vanuatu, Fiji etc. However I would think that seeing as no official announcement had been made by these governments or is likely in the next month or so, advertising tickets to such places now again is very very questionable indeed.

And there is the fact that we haven’t started our vaccination program yet and won’t until February or March and certainly will not have a significant percentage of the population vaccinated by July. So given Qantas itself and presumably the government of the country you are visiting will require proof of vaccination, how can anyone be certain they will have been vaccinated by then. The elderly, front line workers and other vulnerable groups will be first up.

I hope serious legal action is taken against both Qantas and its CEO.

Back in the early days of the pandemic, airlines were routinely cancelling flights and refunds were often delayed or offered as travel credits for future flights. This is not acceptable, someone stuck overseas may have limited funds available on their credit card and might need to buy a ticket on another airline. Future travel credit is no good if you aren’t going to fly on the same airline in the foreseeable future, eg Air New Zealand ticket bought to attend a wedding in Auckland.

However, airlines need certainty about numbers before they schedule flights therefore a system whereby funds are blocked on the customer’s credit card and only released once the flight has taken place would be reasonable to both parties. The customer gets charged if he has booked but doesn’t take the flight, which stops people making bookings with multiple airlines to try their luck. The funds get unblocked if the airline cancels so that the customer can immediately try an alternative.

It’s fair to both sides.

Governments are supporting Airlines all over the globe.
It is not fair for any Airline in this current pandemic to accept money, and not be lawfully enforced to refund in full within 30 days!
Continued Government assistance should be conditional, on Airlines refunding in 30 Days.

Then you have rubbish like this. I heard of cases in the early days of the Virgin mess with customers successfully gaining a credit card charge back against them, to which Virgjn called them and advised if they proceeded they will cancel their frequent flyer membership permanently and bar them from travel.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/then...t-refunds/amp/

So, let me get this straight...

Numerous airlines have been flying RPT services into and out off Australia throughout the pandemic, and that has been regarded as A Good Thing, even to the point where when one airline suggested suspending its services for a week or two it became Shock Horror Front Page News.

Many people who bought tickets on these airlines have had their tickets cancelled due Government restrictions.

But when an Australian airline starts selling tickets for flights 6 months away, it’s suddenly Take Them To Court for Fraudulent Sales Practices?

But what is easy to see is the lack of support by the Australian airlines in scheduling services to get Aussies back home.
But it is OK to do a swan around Oz before flying out leaving a bit roo in the sky.
Those flights could have been turned into a lot of brownie points instead of a self indulgent jolly.

What about the Tennis players? Double
standards?

Support of what? Passenger seats inbound are plentiful. Government caps are what’s limiting.

Will QF guarantee an immediate refund in full if the flight fails to operate for any reason ? If so then no problem.

Unlikely, they haven't refunded my booking for domestic flights from March 2020. They insisted on issuing a voucher to be used before Feb 2022, yet I am in the UK and cannot travel to Australia and use the voucher which is restricted to the same named passengers on another domestic booking.

UK office of Qantas is largely unreachable, I am told I need to contact Australia since my booking was on the Australian website (as it has to be to book only domestic flights).

QF will have held my cash for 2 years before I can get the credit card to undertake a charge back, since they don't consider the service as not having been provided because I have a voucher.

And, in NZ, 466 America's "essential workers".

I did secure a QF refund for a cancelled return leg but it takes 13 weeks (yes weeks) for it to be processed.

Post 28. Lack of support 601 might just relate to number of cabin crew who ‘are current’ on type. My daughter is and has been offered the latest offer of 56 (I think that’s what she said) day roster. Based in DRW, fly to UK, return to DRW for quarantine, wait for next flight, repeat but can return home for a week, back to DRW and repeat, repeat. She and her girl friends are not interested, most have other jobs now. Previously she knocked flights back because she had to decide on the spot but QF had no idea of quarantine requirements. It makes it hard for the airline.

Post 32. Clipstone, it’s the same with the likes of StripADeal, people had to accept a credit offer last March for travel by the end of 2021. They simply say speak to your insurance company, only hope for many is a class action, that is with a large Sydney firm.

Post 33. Chris, Qld has had essential workers flown in from Timor and Vanuatu but close their border to the southern states. Victorian is flying essential workers from the Pacific islands, Tassie has as well. Talk about a rule for some.

I can definitely see a class action and possibly changes in the law over this issue. If I made a booking for a meal in a restaurant and found they were closed when I arrived, but had charged my credit card anyway for the full cost of the meal, I wouldn’t be expected to accept a voucher for another meal sometime in the future.

No service = Full refund.

I believe this to be the case under EU regs.
I am currently pondering whether to take a full refund or make a re-booking with Ryanair - UK to France.
Importantly, the choice is mine.

Some countries offer a choice of a full cash refund or an additional amount if taken as a travel credit eg.120% of the fare in the form of a travel voucher which is perfectly reasonable. Future travel credit may be worthless to someone who booked a domestic flight during a holiday in a country he won't be returning to, on an airline which doesn't serve any routes he can use. Also if the ticket was purchased by someone who travels very little, for a particular event such as a job interview or wedding, then credit is also little use.

A voucher would be beneficial to someone who travels a lot on that particular airline and would welcome an extra 20% value when making his next booking.

Either way, it should be the customers choice as to the form of refund when the promised service isn't delivered.

The ACCC has no balls when it comes to airlines. They hang the retailers out to dry over faulty and refund purchases but Alan as always got away with it? What’s the story? I don’t care if it’s a marginal business.

They let the credit card, per passenger, per sector, rort drag on for about a decade too long, thanks to Jetstar testing the waters. Then they ban it, and because they had become so accustomed to running the business from these sorts of rorts, they upped airfares by 5%.

We would be the most unprotected country on earth in regards to passenger air rights. Much headway has been made in the EU and USA. An investigation needs to be conducted, in regards to the relationship between airliners and the regulator’s board. Seems too cosy.

Lets not forget most are still in some form of lockdown which would also describe the decline after the peak xmas/nye transmissions.