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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

blubak 20th Sep 2020 23:36


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10889385)
In relation to the title of this thread, has anyone received an explanation as to why positive cases can self isolate at home here in Queensland (and probably elsewhere) but someone returning from overseas who has a reasonable likelihood of not carrying Covid, has to go into hotel quarantine at their own expense?

I thought the people returning from overseas were high risk,isnt that how the hotel quarantine saga erupted in victoria.
I agree people self isolating at home could be an issue but right now we dont want any overseas arrivals in victoria,we want out of this & the overseas arrivals will have to go somewhere else & abide the rules in place.

Bend alot 21st Sep 2020 00:01


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10889385)
In relation to the title of this thread, has anyone received an explanation as to why positive cases can self isolate at home here in Queensland (and probably elsewhere) but someone returning from overseas who has a reasonable likelihood of not carrying Covid, has to go into hotel quarantine at their own expense?

I know in QLD positive cases are required to self isolate - to make sure they do guys in uniform are watching (army/army reserve).

As for overseas arrivals, unlike a known positive they could be asymptomatic. By the time a QLD resident got tested (isolate till result) they would generally have already have spread it as much as they would have anyway.

C441 21st Sep 2020 00:42


I thought the people returning from overseas were high risk,isnt that how the hotel quarantine saga erupted in victoria.
It erupted because, despite being in a quarantine hotel, they were not self-isolating. If they were, the virus could have been contained largely to that group.


As for overseas arrivals, unlike a known positive they could be asymptomatic.
So could anyone who came in contact with those people who contracted the virus in the southern and western suburbs of Brisbane a few weeks ago. How is that different to someone returning from overseas and going into required self-isolation at a venue of their choice, as was the case with the Qld positives? The Queensland positives were required to enter self-isolation, at home in most cases I'm sure, but the returning citizens must go to a hotel whether they're positive or not. Even if they were all positive on returning to Australia, why can one group of positives self-isolate at home and another have to fork out $3000 to stay in a hotel if they have a suitable place to self-isolate?

To put it simply. I was at far greater risk of contracting Covid had I gone to Indooroopilly Westfields in the days after the first few western suburbs positives were announced than I was had my next door neighbour flown home from Europe and gone straight into isolation in her home for 14 days - even if she was positive.

KRviator 21st Sep 2020 01:18


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10889408)
How is that different to someone returning from overseas and going into required self-isolation at a venue of their choice, as was the case with the Qld positives? The Queensland positives were required to enter self-isolation, at home in most cases I'm sure, but the returning citizens must go to a hotel whether they're positive or not. Even if they were all positive on returning to Australia, why can one group of positives self-isolate at home and another have to fork out $3000 to stay in a hotel if they have a suitable place to self-isolate?

Because those who are isolating at home are Queensland residents who vote. Not everyone isolating in a hotel is a Queensland resident....Or is that too cynical? :bored:

Section28- BE 21st Sep 2020 01:31


Originally Posted by clark y (Post 10889373)

Also, what is the relevance of the following if you actually only have 8 cases?
  • Within Victoria, 12 of the new cases are linked to outbreaks or complex cases and 2 are under investigation.

Just trying to understand what is causing us so much turmoil.

Are those 2x- potential new 'Community Transmissions' - that can't be accounted back to a known source and then need to be tracked down/quantified????

rgds
S28- BE

Bend alot 21st Sep 2020 02:43


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10889408)
So could anyone who came in contact with those people who contracted the virus in the southern and western suburbs of Brisbane a few weeks ago. How is that different to someone returning from overseas and going into required self-isolation at a venue of their choice, as was the case with the Qld positives?


Just most of Queensland is COVID 19 free, you have/had a very very slim chance of coming into contact with someone infected.

Coming from overseas, Victoria, NSW or ACT increases the chance of contact with an infected person (NSW and ACT due to Victorians jumping open borders to get to QLD).

Self isolation of people (with unknown status or no symptoms) has not been very successful (up to 30% were not at home), I expect that is because they take it less seriously. I also expect actually getting a positive result would give most a reality check, and they would then be happy to correctly self isolate.

The shear numbers of people from overseas entering each week would exceed the man power required to correctly monitor them all, so containment is the only viable option.

clark y 21st Sep 2020 02:54

Section28- BE,
I have no idea. I just know that certain information is hard to find. Victoria today has been reported as total of 11, reduced by 2 (reclassified from August) gives a total of 9 news cases. Best since mid June. Hope the numbers stay down.

Clark y.

C441 21st Sep 2020 05:03


Self isolation of people (with unknown status or no symptoms) has not been very successful (up to 30% were not at home), I expect that is because they take it less seriously. I also expect actually getting a positive result would give most a reality check, and they would then be happy to correctly self isolate.
Are you sure they are not the figures from Victoria for those who had tested positive but had not met their self-isolation obligations? As most if not all (non-celebrity or sportspeople) international arrivals in most states have had to quarantine in hotels, I would suggest your latter suggestion that 30% hadn't met their self-isolation requirements, comes from the very same group you suggest would correctly self-isolate knowing they're positive. You don't think those becoming desperate to return home wouldn't be the most likely not to jeopardise their quarantine and risk hefty fines if they didn't follow the quarantine rules?

Just some consistency both within the States and federally would be nice. At the moment all we have is a totally inconsistent set of rules that are driven by political expediency and a desire not to lose face by admitting that some earlier decisions had been a little over the top.

currawong 21st Sep 2020 05:30

Mods - not sure if this is ok, but exceptional times.

Might not suit everybody, might help some.

Might even need its own thread.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/353733222469486/

Bend alot 21st Sep 2020 05:34


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10889443)
Are you sure they are not the figures from Victoria for those who had tested positive but had not met their self-isolation obligations? As most if not all (non-celebrity or sportspeople) international arrivals in most states have had to quarantine in hotels, I would suggest your latter suggestion that 30% hadn't met their self-isolation requirements, comes from the very same group you suggest would correctly self-isolate knowing they're positive. You don't think those becoming desperate to return home wouldn't be the most likely not to jeopardise their quarantine and risk hefty fines if they didn't follow the quarantine rules?

Just some consistency both within the States and federally would be nice. At the moment all we have is a totally inconsistent set of rules that are driven by political expediency and a desire not to lose face by admitting that some earlier decisions had been a little over the top.

I would suggest, what I said in my previous post.

Queensland also had issues with self isolation.

More than 200 people who were meant to be isolating at home under strict coronavirus quarantine laws in Queensland are missing.

Since mid-April more than 2,000 compliance checks have been conducted by the COVID-19 taskforce, with officers uncovering almost 400 people who were not where they were supposed to be.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...sland/12472332

C441 21st Sep 2020 05:55

But they not people returning from overseas. They are those who had tested positive or were known contacts of those who had, not inbound travellers. You suggested they're the most likely to adhere to the rules; evidently not it would seem.

So again, why are overseas arrivals required to isolate in hotels when known positive cases and their contacts don't?

Anyway, I've got as much chance of getting a logical answer here as I did when I asked my State and Federal members the same question…...:rolleyes:

currawong 21st Sep 2020 06:07

FWIW its not just overseas arrivals, but interstate also.

The "positive test, immediate transfer to government facility until two negative tests followed by 14 days quarantine in another government facility" model would not fly here.

Works really well though, apparently.

Bend alot 21st Sep 2020 07:43


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10889452)
But they not people returning from overseas. They are those who had tested positive or were known contacts of those who had, not inbound travellers. You suggested they're the most likely to adhere to the rules; evidently not it would seem.

So again, why are overseas arrivals required to isolate in hotels when known positive cases and their contacts don't?

Anyway, I've got as much chance of getting a logical answer here as I did when I asked my State and Federal members the same question…...:rolleyes:

I am not sure what you do not get.

Most people in QLD are known to be COVID free - there was a breach and some fools contaminated a few people.

Those then were in the community - they either developed symptoms or were asked to be tested - BY THIS TIME it was too late, they either infected others or did not have the virus. The saying the horse has bolted rings true.

The ones who tested positive by this stage had already done all the infecting they were going to do, they then need/ed the self isolate with Johnny Grunt watching - the numbers were/are low in QLD for this to happen.

However new arrivals from overseas are considered contagious until proven otherwise, we do not have enough Johnny Grunts to individually watch everyone of these voluntary arrivals at their own homes.

I do believe the self funded hotel quarantine ($3300) can be circumvented with an approved alternative also self funded, but that I expect costs a little more than $3300.

It seems around 3/4 of QLD cases are overseas arrivals including the one case today.

Ragnor 21st Sep 2020 08:05

Just curious, Premier Gladys who is awesome and doing a fantastic job. She, today has said she won’t relax restrictions unless testing numbers increase.

Why won’t they accept that people don’t need to get tested and less ppl actually have symptoms?! Why would healthy normally ppl get a test than have to isolate until their results are returned.

currawong 21st Sep 2020 09:39


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10889484)
Just curious, Premier Gladys who is awesome and doing a fantastic job. She, today has said she won’t relax restrictions unless testing numbers increase.

Why won’t they accept that people don’t need to get tested and less ppl actually have symptoms?! Why would healthy normally ppl get a test than have to isolate until their results are returned.

Not sure testing is available for asymptomatic individuals in NSW unless identified as a possible close contact.

"Testing of asymptomatic people (that is, people with no symptoms) is not recommended routinely. In certain high risk outbreak settings, PHU may consider testing asymptomatic contacts to inform management of the outbreak"

From NSW Health.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infect...tions.aspx#4-2

clark y 21st Sep 2020 09:49

Victoria had the same thing- we need more tests, but only if you have symptoms.

Section28- BE 21st Sep 2020 10:15

ex the QCL: Swapping 787s for 9240s as pilots retrain as header drivers...........
 

Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10889448)
Mods - not sure if this is ok, but exceptional times.

Might not suit everybody, might help some.

Might even need its own thread.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/353733222469486/

With, Mr "currawong/'s"- same Caveat/'s...... 'Mods'- feel free to, Excise/Flame/Move the following- all Cool!!!!!

Link here: https://www.queenslandcountrylife.co...field/?cs=4713

rgds all/be well
Section28




Turnleft080 21st Sep 2020 11:19


Originally Posted by clark y (Post 10889529)
Victoria had the same thing- we need more tests, but only if you have symptoms.

Today was 11 cases, that's about 39 for a 14 day even if we had 5 cases in any 14 day period Dan Andrews would still be hesitant to open up Melbourne.
It's in his fascist left-wing government DNA now, welcome to iron clad, ring of steal, you have no rights, state.
As per the article Slats 11 posted about the CCP Dan was introduced to this philosophy while he was trying to buy a belt.
Now we see it day in day out, moving the goal posts everyday and hence arresting pregnant women and letting go BLM and Casey spreaders.
Can governments defeat viruses. No. Do lockdowns work. No. Europe is now proving it right now. It prolongs the virus. Theory dead. Not according to governments.
Victoria will flatten out now and come March (when job keeper goes funny enough) the cases will spike again. Hence another lockdown.
Hope I'm bloody wrong though if correct these protests will become riots as we see in London. London now about to go into lockdown.
Instead of a $5000 quarantine fine London will fine you $18,000.
Again, the virus isn't scary, governments are.
China has us right where they want us. They like to see other countries damaged and poorer for it.

One more thing. Today at the Hotel quarantine enquiry, Chris Eccles department of the premiers office all of a sudden
could not answer questions today due to a bout of amnesia.
Dan and Jenny front up, under oath, on Wednesday. Lets see if this amnesia thing is also contagious.

nonsense 21st Sep 2020 18:17


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10889385)
In relation to the title of this thread, has anyone received an explanation as to why positive cases can self isolate at home here in Queensland (and probably elsewhere) but someone returning from overseas who has a reasonable likelihood of not carrying Covid, has to go into hotel quarantine at their own expense?

It gets even better.
If you are found to be infected you are told (and trusted, with some verification) to go home and stay home.
If you arrive from "elsewhere" you must go into 14 day quarantine.
If during that 14 days you test positive, whether on day 3 or day 13, you are set free on day 14 (but not before) and you are told to go home and stay home.

How are the following infected people different, such that they are treated differently?
Someone found to be infected in the community (must isolate at home, no quarantine provided even if family/housemates not infected).
Someone found to be infected on arrival into quarantine (must remain in quarantine 14 days, then released regardless of whether still positive)
Someone found to be infected on day 13 of quarantine (released next day to self isolate - where if they don't have a local home??)

It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that "quarantine" for 14 days followed by release even if infected is primarily designed to inconvenience and discourage new arrivals.

blubak 21st Sep 2020 23:58


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10889585)
Today was 11 cases, that's about 39 for a 14 day even if we had 5 cases in any 14 day period Dan Andrews would still be hesitant to open up Melbourne.
It's in his fascist left-wing government DNA now, welcome to iron clad, ring of steal, you have no rights, state.
As per the article Slats 11 posted about the CCP Dan was introduced to this philosophy while he was trying to buy a belt.
Now we see it day in day out, moving the goal posts everyday and hence arresting pregnant women and letting go BLM and Casey spreaders.
Can governments defeat viruses. No. Do lockdowns work. No. Europe is now proving it right now. It prolongs the virus. Theory dead. Not according to governments.
Victoria will flatten out now and come March (when job keeper goes funny enough) the cases will spike again. Hence another lockdown.
Hope I'm bloody wrong though if correct these protests will become riots as we see in London. London now about to go into lockdown.
Instead of a $5000 quarantine fine London will fine you $18,000.
Again, the virus isn't scary, governments are.
China has us right where they want us. They like to see other countries damaged and poorer for it.

One more thing. Today at the Hotel quarantine enquiry, Chris Eccles department of the premiers office all of a sudden
could not answer questions today due to a bout of amnesia.
Dan and Jenny front up, under oath, on Wednesday. Lets see if this amnesia thing is also contagious.

All these people with amnesia need to go.
I dont care what public approval rating they have,as we know there are people out there who dont care what politicians do or stand for,as long as their preferred party is in power no wrong can be done & unfortunately that will never change.


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