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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Angle of Attack 11th Sep 2020 11:10

If it gets to 5000 hospitalised I’d be mildly concerned, this crap is getting beyond a joke. VIC has historically ripped the guts out of the health care system starting with Kennet all those years ago, You can get away with it until something like a pandemic hits. The virus always exposes the weakest link, and it has proven true, Victoria has copped it because of all the privatisation loving State libs they’ve had since Kennet. You reap what you sow. Pay peanuts get virus.

Bend alot 11th Sep 2020 11:17


Originally Posted by Angle of Attack (Post 10883032)
6.7 million population in VIC last time I looked and your worried about double digit hospitalisation cases? FFS...

Concentration on death and oldies may bite the arse later.

A country in Europe that constantly had healthcare in the top 3 for Europe pre COVID and "rich country" around $60K GDP per capita, would have Australia's death rate sitting at around 32,000 deaths for the 6 months since March if we had the same stats.

Yes they had lock-down and they still have restrictions - but 1 in every 794 people of the entire population died and 1 in 49 people of the population contracted it.

currawong 11th Sep 2020 11:19

Be interesting to see how this looks at the twelve month mark -

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2562261/

Square Bear 11th Sep 2020 11:49

Angle of Attack,

are you seriously blaming Kennett.....he lost that unloose-able election in 1999, and since then the Labor Party has had 17 years of running the State, with the Libs having a mere 4 years.....and before Kennet was Kirner and Cain Jr (um..who was there when the state bank went!!).

But hey, if you want to disregard the impact that 17 years of Victorian Labor Govt influence on its health system (not to mention what it has allowed its Police Service to become, nor the wokeness of just about every Government department it has) fill your boots....but seriously now, do a bit of history research, and understand what the Labor party has done to a once great State.

Kennnet 21 years ago, and mostly Labor Party, BLF CMFEU ACTU, DOCKERS, etc etc etc since then, and who are the citizens asking for to sort the current mess out, yep KENNETT.

Not my choice at all, but couldnt possibly be worse than the “Chairman”...he prob wants Kennett as well.

History...look it up, and maybe take of those rose coloured glasses.

Turnleft080 11th Sep 2020 12:17

If a Vic election was being held tomorrow Labor would lose 30 seats. Crash! Bang! Wallop! Wipeout!

White Knight 11th Sep 2020 12:22


Originally Posted by Bend alot
All your examples have restrictions in place (that keep numbers lower).

But nothing like the nonsense happening in Melbourne right now. Stasigrad may be a better name for the place these days...

Bend alot 11th Sep 2020 13:57

Are you sure?

Many think Sweden was basically OP's normal the whole time - that is/was utter rubbish. Sweden had massive restrictions and a massive death toll and a screwed economy to match.

Show a free COVID nation that is doing well - other than China.

exfocx 11th Sep 2020 15:23


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10882832)
So, I found a few figures and the number's are genuinely scary...As at yesterday, for COVID:
  • The median age of all cases is 37 years (range: 0 to 106 years).
  • The median age of deaths is 86 years (range: 30 to 106 years).
  • Source
The ABS says in 2018 (Last year of avail data)
  • Median age at death was 78.9 years for males and 84.8 years for females.
  • Source

If you assume (I know, I know), the "average" age at death in Australia is (78.9+84.8)/2 = 81.85, then there is zero value to be "saved" in the "statistical value of life" calculations,...............................

No, I think you're wrong and I also think it's a case of not understand stats etc, which should be left to those that do! I may even be reading this wrong.

The data I'm referring to is from the US Dept of Social Security Admin and is an actuarial table based on 2017 for the nominated age. The link will be at the end.

If you were 75 yrs old in 2017 (i.e. 78 yrs old today) you have on av another 11 yrs to live with only a 4% chance of dying in the next 12 mths. John Hopkins Uni data says if you're in the 70-80 age bracket and you get cv19 you have a 30% of kicking the bucket (no link, look at their website). If you were born in 2017 you'd have an Av life expectancy of 76! You see, we die off quite a bit more than you think at an earlier age than most of us think as we've been caught up in the Av age thingy (a DAME informed me of this a number of yrs ago). 40 to 50 sees a number go from cancer and heart disease, so if you see 50 your chances of reaching the Av life expectancy increase, when you hit 60 it's likely to exceed the av and once you're 70 you're past it. And so on till like the example above you do quite a bit better. This goes on till you you're in your 80s, 80 in 2017 will see you get to 88 with only a 6% chance of kicking it in the next 12mths, unless you get cv, then you're screwed!

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

blubak 11th Sep 2020 21:59


Originally Posted by Angle of Attack (Post 10883038)
If it gets to 5000 hospitalised I’d be mildly concerned, this crap is getting beyond a joke. VIC has historically ripped the guts out of the health care system starting with Kennet all those years ago, You can get away with it until something like a pandemic hits. The virus always exposes the weakest link, and it has proven true, Victoria has copped it because of all the privatisation loving State libs they’ve had since Kennet. You reap what you sow. Pay peanuts get virus.

Thought we had a national healthcare system as in medicare?
How can a state take millions out of a fed govt run system however the fed govt HAS ripped millions out of the aged care system.
Get andrews to stand up for his quarantine debarcle & morrison for the aged care 1.

Ragnor 11th Sep 2020 22:36

"The idea is not to politicise these individual administrative decisions.” Queen P has/has not control I don't know. It is not politicization to insist that all decisions especially ones of this magnitude be ultimately the responsibility of the elected representatives. If the Act doesn't build in a mechanism by which the Health Minister can override the CHO's regulations then the Act is deficient and ought to be amended immediately.

Premier trips over borders

SARAH ELKS ROSIE LEWIS
NCA NEWSWIRE / SARAH MARSHALL

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk on Friday
PALASZCZUK’S OFFICE SAYS SHE WAS WRONG IN DEFENDING BAN ON FUNERAL VISIT

The office of Annastacia Palaszczuk has conceded the Queensland Premier “misspoke” when she defended her state’s declaration of Canberra as a COVID “hotpot” which led to a young woman being denied permission to attend her father’s funeral.

Ms Palaszczuk said she was “heartbroken” seeing the images of ACT resident Sarah Caisip on Thursday, dressed in full PPE when she was allowed to briefly view her father’s body after being banned from attending the Brisbane funeral with her mother and 11-year-old sister.

The hardline stance in refusing to relax the mandatory 14-day hotel quarantine requirements for mourners has fuelled outrage after AFL players and celebrities were allowed to stay at resorts and five-star hotels.

At a press conference on Friday, Ms Palaszczuk said the ACT

— which has not had a COVID case in months — was still excluded because a man with COVID-19 had entered Queensland through the ACT.

This was incorrect. The man came from Sydney, via Canberra, into Queensland — but was never diagnosed with COVID-19.

A Queensland government spokeswoman later confirmed Ms Palaszczuk “misspoke”.

In the face of the fallout over the treatment of Ms Caisip, Ms Palaszczuk insisted she was powerless to make decisions about quarantine exemptions, with only Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young able to do that under the law.

“Everyone who has seen those images is heartbroken,” she said. “I don‘t make those decisions … under the act, it’s her (Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young) decision. We’ve got to take the clinical advice here.”

A statement from Queensland Health said Dr Young had “made the decision to include the ACT as a hotspot due to the frequent movement of NSW residents in and out of the territory”, despite entreaties from ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr that Canberra has never been a hotspot.

University of Queensland law professor Graeme Orr confirmed Dr Young held the power under Border Restrictions Direction No 13. “Only the CHO or her deputy can waive entering quarantine if you come from a hotspot, then only for really exceptional circumstances … and only a public health official can give permission to leave quarantine for exceptional circumstances,” he said.

“The idea is not to politicise these individual administrative decisions.”

In a moment of emotion during a press conference, Ms Palaszczuk responded to criticism from federal Finance Minister Mathias Cormann by revealing she had also lost a loved one during the pandemic.

“These are difficult decisions, they are heartbreaking,” she said. “These issues hurt me deeply. They hurt me deeply because during this pandemic I’ve lost loved ones as well.”

It was later confirmed Ms Palaszczuk’s grandmother died in June. She was able to attend her funeral.

Senator Cormann had said Ms Caisip “did not present a risk just for holding her dad’s hand while he was passing away”. The government’s Senate leader said the Palaszczuk government’s handling of her case was “just plain disgraceful” and “so cold-hearted”.

“You cannot tell me that the Premier of Queensland, if she had so chosen, would not have been persuasive in getting a more caring and a more appropriate outcome here,” he said.



blubak 11th Sep 2020 22:43


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10883396)
"The idea is not to politicise these individual administrative decisions.” Queen P has/has not control I don't know. It is not politicization to insist that all decisions especially ones of this magnitude be ultimately the responsibility of the elected representatives. If the Act doesn't build in a mechanism by which the Health Minister can override the CHO's regulations then the Act is deficient and ought to be amended immediately.

Premier trips over borders

SARAH ELKS ROSIE LEWIS
NCA NEWSWIRE / SARAH MARSHALL

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk on Friday
PALASZCZUK’S OFFICE SAYS SHE WAS WRONG IN DEFENDING BAN ON FUNERAL VISIT

The office of Annastacia Palaszczuk has conceded the Queensland Premier “misspoke” when she defended her state’s declaration of Canberra as a COVID “hotpot” which led to a young woman being denied permission to attend her father’s funeral.

Ms Palaszczuk said she was “heartbroken” seeing the images of ACT resident Sarah Caisip on Thursday, dressed in full PPE when she was allowed to briefly view her father’s body after being banned from attending the Brisbane funeral with her mother and 11-year-old sister.

The hardline stance in refusing to relax the mandatory 14-day hotel quarantine requirements for mourners has fuelled outrage after AFL players and celebrities were allowed to stay at resorts and five-star hotels.

At a press conference on Friday, Ms Palaszczuk said the ACT

— which has not had a COVID case in months — was still excluded because a man with COVID-19 had entered Queensland through the ACT.

This was incorrect. The man came from Sydney, via Canberra, into Queensland — but was never diagnosed with COVID-19.

A Queensland government spokeswoman later confirmed Ms Palaszczuk “misspoke”.

In the face of the fallout over the treatment of Ms Caisip, Ms Palaszczuk insisted she was powerless to make decisions about quarantine exemptions, with only Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young able to do that under the law.

“Everyone who has seen those images is heartbroken,” she said. “I don‘t make those decisions … under the act, it’s her (Chief Health Officer Jeannette Young) decision. We’ve got to take the clinical advice here.”

A statement from Queensland Health said Dr Young had “made the decision to include the ACT as a hotspot due to the frequent movement of NSW residents in and out of the territory”, despite entreaties from ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr that Canberra has never been a hotspot.

University of Queensland law professor Graeme Orr confirmed Dr Young held the power under Border Restrictions Direction No 13. “Only the CHO or her deputy can waive entering quarantine if you come from a hotspot, then only for really exceptional circumstances … and only a public health official can give permission to leave quarantine for exceptional circumstances,” he said.

“The idea is not to politicise these individual administrative decisions.”

In a moment of emotion during a press conference, Ms Palaszczuk responded to criticism from federal Finance Minister Mathias Cormann by revealing she had also lost a loved one during the pandemic.

“These are difficult decisions, they are heartbreaking,” she said. “These issues hurt me deeply. They hurt me deeply because during this pandemic I’ve lost loved ones as well.”

It was later confirmed Ms Palaszczuk’s grandmother died in June. She was able to attend her funeral.

Senator Cormann had said Ms Caisip “did not present a risk just for holding her dad’s hand while he was passing away”. The government’s Senate leader said the Palaszczuk government’s handling of her case was “just plain disgraceful” and “so cold-hearted”.

“You cannot tell me that the Premier of Queensland, if she had so chosen, would not have been persuasive in getting a more caring and a more appropriate outcome here,” he said.

How can someone without a heart be 'heartbroken'.
So easy to shed crocodile tears & make vote appealing statements after f...ing up big time yet again.Is anyone really going to vote for her.

Ragnor 11th Sep 2020 23:13

It’s QLD I think more would vote for her than you realize.

What is DF thoughts on the border and hard stance that Queen P has?!

Bend alot 12th Sep 2020 01:28


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 10883385)
Thought we had a national healthcare system as in medicare?
How can a state take millions out of a fed govt run system however the fed govt HAS ripped millions out of the aged care system.
Get andrews to stand up for his quarantine debarcle & morrison for the aged care 1.

Might want to check healthcare funding Australia.

GST is like Medicare, both are national systems - but devil in the detail.

Stickshift3000 12th Sep 2020 03:32


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 10883385)
Thought we had a national healthcare system as in medicare?
How can a state take millions out of a fed govt run system however the fed govt HAS ripped millions out of the aged care system.
Get andrews to stand up for his quarantine debarcle & morrison for the aged care 1.

Vic Hospitals and the health department are funded by state; both have been underfunded for many years.

unobtanium 12th Sep 2020 04:51

For forks sake how hard is it to let someone be with there dying loved one? Ever heard of PPE? Put them in a hazmat suit, hell even a space suit let them be with there loved ones, then isolate them for 2 weeks. Crocodile tears on TV doesn't help.

601 12th Sep 2020 09:04


Thought we had a national healthcare system as in medicare?
It is obvious by some statements that we should have more teaching in schools about how our system of Government in Australia operates and the State - Federal relationship.

Medicare is for ??????
States run the ????????????????
Feds fund ????????????????
.

Xeptu 12th Sep 2020 09:17


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 10883554)
It is obvious by some statements that we should have more teaching in schools about how our system of Governments of Australia operates

I couldn't agree more strongly. My 35 yr old son knows he must vote, but has absolutely no clue why, what Government is and does. I do believe that is slowly changing, Young people are taking more of an interest in specific issues but still don't know how it works.

Joker89 12th Sep 2020 09:55

All the fear mongers should watch this. You just Need to follow the data.


Bend alot 12th Sep 2020 10:22


Originally Posted by Joker89 (Post 10883579)
All the fear mongers should watch this. You just Need to follow the data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac

So we are having the exact same "curve" result!

Just that needed an unprecedented travel restrictions and lock-downs to achieve - apples v apples.

Unless you state that restrictions and lock-downs have zero bearing on the curve. I assume you will supply that data.

Bend alot 12th Sep 2020 10:32


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 10883561)
I couldn't agree more strongly. My 35 yr old son knows he must vote, but has absolutely no clue why, what Government is and does. I do believe that is slowly changing, Young people are taking more of an interest in specific issues but still don't know how it works.

I have been a advocate for Basic Life Skills to be taught in schools as a core for many years - that includes understanding government/s and the agencies including tax and business.


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