Or how about Gladys should have nipped this in the bud al la SA....but no.....now the country's aviation sector is up **** creek again with ever increasing border closures when the country was so so close to getting fully open

WA-VIC GONE.

F*^k you COVID and the horse you rode in on.

The fate of many lies with Miss P. If she puts up her walls again then it’s Domestic at a standstill until March. VIC <=> QLD corridor keeping many aviation workers away from standowns.

When Betty Windsor finally 'kicks the Corgi', there'll be a renewed push for a Republic. If the Pro Republicans move to centralise power away from the States, then they'll probably get over the line. Especially after the way these clowns have descended their responses into farce.

If you divide 100 by the 6 states and NT (ignoring the ACT) you get 14. So the percentage of GSP of the Australian economy is exactly average.

You've chosen to look at the resident population to say it's above average GSP per capita. What about GSP per sq km? Then it's below average as it should be 33% as it occupies 1/3 of the area of the country?

Was hoping 2021 might be looking good at least domestically. With the current outbreaks and a more contagious strain spreading worldwide, I think we can pretty much write-off at least the first 6mths of 2021.

How many times & by how many experts has she been told to make masks mandatory,i really cant work out what her problem us in doing so,the reaction she is getting from other states is because of her seemingly opposition to mandating them,its not a big deal,ffs just wear 1.

So another words vitamin D and zinc do the same thing as a vaccine as I was ridiculed for the last 9 months. The only diff one might give you
side effects the other doesn't. D and zinc have been tested for thousands of years the other for 8 weeks.
Sorry, how foolish of me, where in a pandemic someone has to make money.

I’m a fan of Sco mo, now not so sure. still stalling until March to roll this vaccine out it’s time to lead the country approve it get it out have ppl vaccinated. Actually what’s the point no vaccine is 100% effective as long there is one persons with covid that state will be locked out. 2021 is going to be worse than 2020 ppl.

You can write it off until the level of vaccination is sufficient. The current plan has this for October 2021. I’d be lobbying the federal government for a faster rollout. The UK are aiming to get to their critical level by Northern spring:

Second vaccine clears path out of pandemic by Spring - UK's Hancock (Health Secretary)

Oh FFS the last thing we need at this time is this quackery. Just get the jab and end it.

Gladly take it if you can prove it won't effect any other part of the human body long term and I would have more confidence if the
companies can provide liability. They don't, so what does that mean they don't trust their own product.

Your choice Turnleft don’t take it completely up to you. Just be prepared to not be able to travel interstate or international if you’re a pilot well maybe look for another career. Because the federal and state governments will require some kind of vaccination moving forward to enter Australia and move within.

Please enlighten all of us on how that might occur?

If you guys think we’re going to have a major constitutional rewrite to remove power away from the states to close borders in a health emergency forget it. It’s never going to happen. The High Court has ruled states have these powers and it is constitutionally legal. Australia has a very poor record of approving referendums, only 8 of the 44 referendum questions posed to the Australian people have been approved and generally for minimalist changes that are accepted by both sides of politics.

The truth is the border restrictions are very popular with the general public. All premiers who institute them have been or will be re-elected. Keeping the virus out has probably allowed more work in hospitality than stand downs in aviation. Sydney’s hospitality would’ve been crushed on NYE despite Gladys’s attempt at an open economy.

The way to get around this is to remove the reason for the health emergency in the first place. One, quarantine in remote areas to reduce capital city spread (this latest NSW/Vic outbreak was spread from one mystery traveller on the northern beaches) and then expedite the rollout of the vaccine to allow a herd immunity to be in place within a few months like the UK are doing. Both of which should be done by the Federal Government which for the most part has been MIA.

Probably through a process of deliberation, consultation and debate. Seemed to work in 1901.:rolleyes:

Yep. I'd like to know which four of the six states would be voting in favour to get that one past.

Removal/amendment of state powers is a debate for the future.

Right now I need the Feds to have the "big picture" for Australia and not get bogged down in the political power plays of individual states/territories.

The Feds are dolling out a ****load of extra $$, I'd like those $$ to be allocated to the states/territories who can work with the Feds for the "big picture".

Those leaders who can't - or won't - are free to do so, I'm sure losing the $$ would not be a concern to their clear conscience.
Whether or not their constituents/business leaders/community leaders et al would agree worth nothing as compared to the leaders clear conscience - be interesting to see how THAT panned out.

I don't think it's unfair for funds to be allocated where they will benefit Australia the best overall.

Just like the price of petrol goes up overnight and takes 3 weeks to come down.
Eight cases yesterday all borders close. ZERO cases in VIC today borders remain closed for 3 weeks if it stays at zero.

dr dre no one suggesting constitutional reform seriously suggests that it could be done quickly enough to affect the current COVID situation. Nor do they think it could be done easily, as both you and Wingnut point out.

I don't think that means we shouldn't try.

State governments represent provincial jurisdictions separated by lines on a map that are in no way reflective of the way people live their increasingly interconnected lives. State borders were probably made irrelevant by mass production of the personal motor vehicle. That irrelevance is accentuated by widespread availability of air transit.


While I may not agree with your prescription for dealing with COVID, I do agree that crises of this magnitude are best dealt with by Federal/National Governments.

Perhaps a Federal/National Government deprived of the ability to devolve responsibility, power and blame to non-existent State Governments would be more likely to step up and solve the next COVID scale problem that comes along.

As I said yesterday 10 cases might as well be 1000 when it comes to the knock on effects in aviation

5 actually, 3 of which are returned overseas travellers already in quarantine.

Are you saying taking over responsibility for immigration and quarantine as they are constitutionally obligated to and making the expedited rollout of this vaccine their number one priority over the next few months are things the current Federal Government can only do if you remove any other body they can lay blame on and delegate responsibility to, until there’s no one left to blame but themselves?

Sounds like a pretty pathetic government. You could probably apply the things you said about states being irrelevant in a time of mass air travel, digital communication and globalisation to the nation state as well.

I keep hearing thats it’s time for Australia to become one, to act as one instead of 8 divided entities. If that’s the case then the one who should be putting in place that idea of Australia acting as one is the leader of Australia. Where is he? It’s well past time he stepped up and applied some real leadership skills. But as the bushfires showed he’s got no idea how to lead in a crisis and just delegates responsibility to others. Scotty from Marketing for real. It’s like every lesson of airline command training is being thrown out the window.

C’mon, act as a leader, take responsibility for international quarantine and get this vaccine here ASAP!

You've answered your own question. He doesn't have the authority to arbitrarily dissolve State powers hence why you are 'hearing things'.

State responsibility. No need for the PM to 'take command' when the established responsibilities are known to, well, most people.

Well, I guess that's one delegation he could take back. Shouldn't take long to establish all the networks & responsible people to enact this after they take it back from the States.

From The Age:

Morrison rejects 'very dangerous' rush to approve vaccine

By Nick Bonyhady

The Prime Minister and Chief Medical Officer have rejected calls to rush through approvals for a coronavirus vaccine.

Scott Morrison and Professor Paul Kelly said at a press conference on New Year’s Day that the situation in Australia was different to overseas because there were far fewer cases of coronavirus here, giving the Therapeutic Goods Administration time to assess each vaccine thoroughly for safety and effectiveness.

"With a vaccine you don't rush to failure, that would be very dangerous to Australians,” Mr Morrison said.

Those who suggested otherwise, the Prime Minister said, were "naive".

While the country waits for a vaccine, Professor Kelly said the government had pushed Victoria to step up its coronavirus testing in conversations between health ministers and medical officers.

Countries such as the US and UK that have started vaccinating people have done so with emergency approval of the vaccine, not full approval as with other vaccines.”

I cannot believe this. The normal full licence process takes years. The emergency use authorisations issued by every other western nation of note uses the same strict oversight guidelines and processes, just with the data available today. If we wait until the data set is large enough to give comfort to some bureaucrats then we really won't have an industry left. Morrison is a smirking lightweight who only recognises leadership so that he can stab it in the back.

Maybe if Airlines offered free freight transport of the vaccine into and around Australia in exchange for the Federal Government expediting the rollout of it? It's pretty ridiculous for Greg Hunt to say implementing the vaccine earlier would be "irresponsible and reckless" considering the states are not willing to allow any outbreaks until herd immunity is reached. It seems to me as if the Feds are going to play politics as a FU to the states just to spite them.

So the question then asked is, if the Federal government are ending jobkeeper in March but aren't going to have enough herd immunity to allow an easing of restrictions until October, what happens in the intervening 7 months? Does it make Australians desperate and angry only to have it resolved and the Federal government's pandemic response declared a success immediately before the next Federal Election, which can be called at any time from August 2021 to September 2022?

Labor calls for Australia's Covid vaccine rollout to be accelerated

Ah, but we from the Land Down Under always know more than everyone else. Proof of this can be found in our aviation legislation, which far exceeds world's best practice.
So far Australia has fared very well, thanks mainly to being an island and having a relatively compliant population. But if we are last in the world to come out of restrictions we will pay a terrible economic price.
For once I am firmly on the side of the Opposition - let's bloody DO IT and get the jabs asap.

Turnleft080 I agree with you. At this point nobody can indicate what the long term side affects will be, especially the medical profession.

There is a lot of money to be made with this vaccine and there are certainly many big stakes at risk. Maybe some research into which countries have to most to gain, and have controlling interests in these drug companies may raise several eyebrows.

For flight crew, you’d be an absolute fool to prematurely take an unknown substance such as this vaccine without considering what effect that could have on your medical down the track, or worse if an adverse reaction occurs on the flight deck with several hundred or so passengers sitting behind you.
I wonder what casa thinks of this, and what effect this has on your loss of license / life insurance policies.
Time will tell.

Do some non-social media research on vaccine side effects and the timelines thereof. Let’s assume that its a binary choice: taking the vaccine before a medical renewal or getting covid-19. Which do you think would be worse by a factor of a million? That’s right. The covid-19 disease.

Some airlines provide critical thinking skills development courses. Just saying...

This is what worries me. If there's even a small amount of anti-vaxxerism in an industry that needs this vaccine can you imagine the level of resistance to take the vaccine in the general public? It may not even be over before year's end if there's this level of unscientific rubbish being spread around to the point where the required immunity level isn't reached on schedule?

Fast forward ten or so years:

Ad appears - "If you had a CV19 vaccination in 2021 please contact Smith, Smith and Smith Attorneys at Law and join the millions in our Class Action!"

And if you didn’t, and now have permanent organ damage, do you get to sue some w@nker on social media? How about if you’re dead? Or how about if someone else is living in your fine house because you took a permanent 60% pay cut when your airline folded? FFS.

That's why I wouldn't go anywhere near it until AVMED and CASA approves it for flight crew. I believe the FAA have already in the US. Hopefully puts some responsibility back on the regulator. I won't be holding my breath though.

That non social media research as you put it probably would mean you are aware that many people that contract it may not even have symptoms. Then develop their own immunity to it, no difference to the result of a vaccine. But that's worse by a factor of a million is it?

CASA (on it's website) doesn't specifically approve any vaccine, the only info about vaccines is in the medication recommendations section where they say wait 24hrs post vaccination until operating. If the FAA already have approved it, and the TGA are expected to in January, I don't see why CASA will object.

Here's a thought. In those intervening 7 months the State governments may actually have to be economically responsible for once.

The entire federal government response has been basically destroyed by State Policies. The only thing that will get the State's attention will be some mass redundancies and a few bankruptcies. Unfortunately I fear that will come from the Aviation Sector.

Good grief.
Please give CASA a ring with your concerns and let us know how you go.

Why no it isn’t in fact. I was taking poetic licence. In actual fact Covid-19 is much worse than that. I will save you the time: if infected, with any of the current known mutations you have an approximately 2% chance of dying, and an approximately 20% chance of having a lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability. If you get the vaccine you have a demonstrated zero chance of dying, and a possibility of an easily treated allergic reaction approximately 1 in 2 million times.

Aviation is never coming back without a wide scale vaccination programme, and I would not be surprised to see them made mandatory by employers, governments and health care providers. .

you'll need to provide some citations there if you want to state it as fact- otherwise i'll just dismiss it as the very "social media research" BS that you were on about in your original post, and typical hyperbole with this subject. As far as I am aware there is precisely zero peer reviewed studies or widespread research being conducted on "lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability", because there is nothing new or unique about it. It has no greater risk factor of lasting ongoing symptoms that differs at all to previous SARS Coronavirus or Influenza.

Those statements are incorrect.

There are numerous peer reviewed studies completed or being done into the long-term health effects of coronavirus due to the numbers of people experiencing long term symptoms or organ damage. You can read about one study that was done at St Vincents Hospital (Sydney) here: Australian study finds COVID-19 'long haulers' suffer symptoms months after coronavirus infection or one that was done in the UK here: Southmead Hospital publishes pioneering research on long term effects of coronavirus. There are many others out there, I don't want to spam you or the message board with links, but there is a lot of research being done in hospitals in many different countries all over the world including Australia and the USA on this exact topic, these results can be found relatively easily via Google taking you to their publishers or research organisations.

Never go full retard