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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 3rd Jul 2020 00:14


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 10827680)
No mate, was just pointing out that you’d missed his point.

I don’t know what the best way to handle this problem is - I believe keeping the STATE borders closed is ridiculous. AUSTRALIA has enough medical resources to deal with any community infection now. The media led hyper fear regarding the current Victorian clusters is amusing - what were we trying to achieve again? Zero cases? An unburdened health system?
We aren’t seperate kingdoms, we are the one country. One economy that is bleeding badly due to poor management at the state level.

I’m also stood down, and have been since March. I have enough resources tucked away to be fine with no pay until late next year. No self pity here - but the more I read the data, and ignore the headlines, the clearer the picture becomes.

We all have our opinions - some are learned, others are just plucked. Either way, there’s no need to shout down the opinions that don’t match our own.

Stay safe, enjoy the time off, and question everything! :-)

sounds like we’re on a similar page!

I’m happy for state borders to be opened, perhaps with restrictions on those from hotspots (ala NT & NSW).

BNEA320’s opinion is that international borders should be opened, which I strongly disagree with.

Australopithecus 3rd Jul 2020 00:17

After admitting you don’t know the best way to handle the virus is you then opine that closing the borders is ridiculous. Apart from that cognitive dissonance, can you not see that there is no middle ground with the virus? Either we eradicate it or we deal with surges with more lock-downs and the whole whack-a-mole endless crisis. Or we could always adopt the populist approach and let it burn through the population and hope that immunity is robust and long-lasting, neither of which is currently in evidence.

ozbiggles 3rd Jul 2020 00:27


Originally Posted by BNEA320 (Post 10827655)
And only the unhealthy die. Complete over reaction by govts here.

so uk economy will kick off nicely next week & we still have state border closures here. Crazy.

if my life had be ruined by insane govt decisions I'd be wanting to take revenge on govt.

There have been quite a few health care workers die from this thing after caring for those infected with Covid. I’m pretty sure they were healthy when they started work at the beginning of this.

And you think the UK economy will be kicking off nicely? Really, please don’t give anyone close to you financial advice anytime soon.

And then we get into insurrection talk, I hope the CIA don’t scan PPrune.

rmm 3rd Jul 2020 01:06


Originally Posted by BNEA320 (Post 10827646)
Healthy people don't die from corona.

A quick google shows 151 doctors and more than 40 nurses have died in Italy from coronavirus disease (that was dated April)

Bend alot 3rd Jul 2020 01:39


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 10827680)
- I believe keeping the STATE borders closed is ridiculous. AUSTRALIA has enough medical resources to deal with any community infection now.

Any evidence to back up the medical resources?

The large cities have enough resources to cover small numbers (outbreaks) in the community, should we start getting +1000 new cases a day - we simply do not have enough ICU beds, Vic has had 5 or so ICU beds this past few days.

Pick a rural town of 5,000 people and introduce the virus, then follow the Gray Nomad (with or without symptoms) interaction and location for a 2 week period over many towns and public locations.

RFDS will need extra funding to transport the country folk to the ICU beds with ventilators.

currawong 3rd Jul 2020 01:50

State borders are not closed and never have been.:ugh:

Restricted, not closed.

Closed to discretionary travelers, ie tourists but open to pretty much everyone else.

Have just been issued a new border pass for QLD. Conditions imposed same or tougher than prior to "opening".:D

Get over it. Be it drought, bushfires or Covid 19, without a TV 99% of Australians would not even be aware of it.

Sad but true.




ozbiggles 3rd Jul 2020 02:00

The RFDS have got extra funding for Covid ops...Is it enough...? hopefully we will never get to find out. I suspect if the workload got heavy other assets such as the military would also come into play. A story today from the Qld papers said they had 250 applicants for the Mount Isa job so pilots aren’t an issue!

In terms of medical resources the HPPC has been advising there is no need to close state borders so they seem comfortable with the resources available. If they didn’t know then no one would.The states are only shut ( or restricted Curra 😁) for the premiers ratings. The HPPC are also the ones saying to keep the international borders shut. I find myself agreeing with that state of play, in my learned view.

Bend alot 3rd Jul 2020 02:50


Originally Posted by ozbiggles (Post 10827715)
The RFDS have got extra funding for Covid ops...Is it enough...? hopefully we will never get to find out.

It is never enough!

Not sure if you are aware, but with closed borders state and international (Worldwide) and other tough restrictions, the mortality rate of resolved cases has been dropping.

Just a couple or maybe 3 weeks ago of all known resolved cases 12% were in death, today it stands at 8%. When this first got serious in Australia, the intrusive test results were taking around 5 days to get a result, now we get the result often same or following day. There is also a saliva test that is much more pleasant to take. Closed boarders have allowed us to get better prepared.

Victoria is a classic example that we are not fully prepared to open borders, having the virus around in small numbers is manageable but allowing exponential growth and not being able to put a cap on it extremely fast is the problem.

Government employees will tow the government line - Scomo's focus is on the economy, his employees will tailor discussion toward that focus.

Now if we just open everything up and let it go wild - we could loose much of or indigenous population, destroying many tribes and their culture and tourism that it generates. Then get placed on many countries no go travel list due to our high levels of virus, destroying more tourism when we open international boarders for many more years to come.

Several states are opening up borders soon, responsible one will shut them fast in cases rise even in small numbers.

Turnleft080 3rd Jul 2020 04:40


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 10824942)
Dan is closing Tulla until mid July.

Just like Nero burning Rome down to the ground. Don't forget people if you go outside
your postcode we will crucify you. Don't expect that state to pay for it either.
Buy your own planks of wood from Bunnings and the Covid police will do the rest.
From the honourable Emperor Dan

ozbiggles 3rd Jul 2020 04:48

Section 2B has some competition

White Knight 3rd Jul 2020 04:50


Originally Posted by ozbiggles
There have been quite a few health care workers die from this thing after caring for those infected with Covid. I’m pretty sure they were healthy when they started work at the beginning of this.

Bit of a stupid statement: Because they're health workers they must be healthy??? I've seen so many many morbidly obese doctors and nurses in the UK it defies belief.

Australopithecus 3rd Jul 2020 05:44


Originally Posted by White Knight (Post 10827787)
Bit of a stupid statement: Because they're health workers they must be healthy??? I've seen so many many morbidly obese doctors and nurses in the UK it defies belief.

And how do you know the body mass of deceased health care workers? Dr Li Wenliang wasn’t obese, and neither were most of the deceased health care workers I have seen mentioned since. We really don’t want to go down the road of deciding who is expendable and who isn’t for what should be obvious reasons.

Chris2303 3rd Jul 2020 06:36


Originally Posted by BNEA320 (Post 10827655)
And only the unhealthy die.

So the 20-30 year olds in the USA are not healthy?

ozbiggles 3rd Jul 2020 06:38

Really White Knight, that is your contribution? Okkkkkkkkkkk.

currawong 4th Jul 2020 02:50


Originally Posted by BNEA320 (Post 10797163)
https://www.travelweekly.com.au/arti...8%20May%202020



& this paragraph in particular …



According to the proposed timetable, Aussies would be able to travel to New Zealand and the Pacific from 1 July, with travel to other countries deemed safe under a bilateral health agreement to restart from 10 September.

However, it appears all international travel wouldn’t resume until after 15 December.

The Tourism Restart Taskforce is planning for all domestic travel, including domestic expedition cruises, to restart from 5 June.


& my guess, jobkeeper & jobseeker to go early, as country can't afford it. As it is, GST will have to increase. To what ? 15%, 20% or more ?


Here we are how many weeks on and...

"The reopening of Queensland's borders to interstate visitors will do little to revive the state's crippled tourism sector."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...-open/12407718

Buster Hyman 4th Jul 2020 04:55


International arrivals into Sydney airport to be capped at 450 per day, affecting flights

By Natassia Chrysanthos
International arrivals into Sydney airport will be capped at 450 people per day as the city faces pressure on its capacity to quarantine returned travellers.

The limit comes into effect at midnight tonight and will last until July 17, with the possibility of extension.

It also restricts each incoming flight to a maximum of 50 passengers.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade’s Smart Traveller website says the Victorian government’s request to pause all international passenger flights into Melbourne for two weeks had placed pressure on Sydney’s quarantine facilities.

“If you’re scheduled to fly into Sydney in the coming days and weeks, confirm your itinerary and onward travel plans with your airline,” it says.

The Australian High Commission in the United Kingdom in a statement said it anticipated international flights into Sydney would be disrupted.

“This will mean some flights may no longer be viable and therefore will not operate,” the statement said.

It advised prospective travellers to confirm their itineraries with their airline and to check the High Commission’s Facebook page for updates.
Yeah, that'll work...

ozbiggles 4th Jul 2020 05:57

Seems to be a bit of a reaction going on to something to be announced at such short notice. That will teach the Victorians to try and do things for their mates.

normanton 4th Jul 2020 06:36

Andrews should grow some balls and close Victoria’s borders for the sake of the country. What a joke. Anyone who broke quarantine rules down there, including security guards, should be jailed.

Australopithecus 4th Jul 2020 06:44

What stunning ineptitude on the part of the Victorian government. Well, except not many people would be actually stunned at the display of gross mismanagement. The defence of our borders got moved to quarantine hotels, yet the military was sidelined in favour of the bozo sector of private security.

The fifty per flight cap would surely render the whole idea moot from a cost perspective. Perhaps Morrison should just pause the entire inbound passenger services for a couple of weeks until we see if we can stuff the genie back into the bottle.

PoppaJo 4th Jul 2020 09:12

Cut Melbourne off from the Regional areas. Essentially the entire of Metro Melbourne keep isolated from everywhere else. Lock down Metro Melbourne.

Cut Geelong off from Melbourne. Bendigo etc...

ozbiggles 4th Jul 2020 09:18

And how do you propose to achieve that? Tanks on the streets? Police on every road? Any idea of how may roads that would be?

PoppaJo 4th Jul 2020 09:58

Only 5 Major roads out of Metro Melbourne. Geelong/Bendigo/Ballarat can be cut off with the closure of Princess/Western/Calder.

Let Melbourne sort out its own problems. Don’t punish regional areas. These places will be glad to cut ties with Melbourne and can thrive without them.

ozbiggles 4th Jul 2020 10:26

So regional Victoria can do without access to the major hospitals, medical specialists, food distribution centres, mental health specialists, the list can go on and in more normal times the transport hubs. You quote 3 highways that need to be cut off....do you think there might be a thousand entry and access points to those roads? How many checkpoints would you need to police that? And then you need to stop people flying in the regions too just to keep it aviation related.

Square Bear 4th Jul 2020 11:09

NZ is Quite often held up by the AUS press as the shining light world leader in its success in combatting Covid 19...and I agree totally they have done a fantastic job. Their “score sits at 306 cases per 1 million population , and sadly 4 deaths per 1 million population. For a country that does a Lot of testing that is an extremely admirable achievement.

Now The AUS press suggest that due to the latest “mistep” by “Chairman” Dan (the Australian Newspaper ref) AUS Is in the land of Covid frefall.

A quick google search shows that the latest figure for AUS are 328 cases per 1 million population, and sadly 4 deaths per 1 million population. So despite the issues in Victoria it would seem AUS is not on the path to Armageddon, AND is on par with NZ which upheld as doing such a fantastic job in beating the “Bastard”.

Perhaps some State Premiers should start acting like Australians rather than Redneck pre Federation thinkers they are presently portraying.

Not only does the Aviation industry need borders to be free, so do the businesses that rely on travellers of all ilk.

So perhaps the State Premiers work out how to solve their internal outbreaks, and allow access through the states.

brokenagain 4th Jul 2020 11:37

If COVID has taught me anything, it’s how many people don’t know the difference between ‘border’ and ‘boarder’.

Lookleft 4th Jul 2020 12:13

The problem is Melbourne is the new Ruby Princess. I don't blame the other States for denying access to Victorians. Chairman Dan made some big statements about how Victoria was leading the country in covid management, now he just looks like an idiot.

Green.Dot 4th Jul 2020 22:13

A complete moron but not quite as stupid as the minister who should have been supervising the hotel quarantine. Well done Labor, your ties with the unions and insistence to use “old mates” security company and their “guards” will haunt you for years to come. And haunt Australia.

Bend alot 4th Jul 2020 22:33


Originally Posted by Square Bear (Post 10828757)
So perhaps the State Premiers work out how to solve their internal outbreaks, and allow access through the states.

State and territory governments fund most of the spending for community health services.

Very much like funding for the RFDS - each state looks after itself, mostly with a uneven distribution of funds from the Feds.


Bodie1 5th Jul 2020 02:10

I returned from overseas, was quarantined in a Sydney, NSW hotel. The NSW Police and Army managed this process. The process on implementing the co-operation between the defence force and NSW Police was obviously extremely well managed. At all times I was treated with respect, at the same time it was clear that this process was serious. The defence force personnel were on every floor (I can only assume this as I was on the 9th floor and saw them there).

It was clear that you weren't leaving that hotel, let alone your floor or your room.

Daniel Andrews does what he is told by the union bosses. He is a useful idiot. He has proven over and over again that he has no decision making authority. He is a puppet of the factions.

Anyone who has attended any event where these 'security' personnel are used knows they have the respect of no one. To say they 'command' authority is a joke. And looking at the actions of a few of them, have no integrity.

Well done Chairman Dan.

brokenagain 5th Jul 2020 02:33

Police forcing people to remain inside their Flemington housing commission apartments sounds very similar to the stories of buildings in Wuhan being welded shut to keep people inside. It’s Chairman Dan’s socialist utopian dream coming true!

Ragnor 5th Jul 2020 03:02

It’s what is needed to save rest of the country.

dr dre 5th Jul 2020 03:26


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 10828599)
The defence of our borders got moved to quarantine hotels, yet the military was sidelined in favour of the bozo sector of private security.

What makes you think military personnel would’ve been acted any differently? Here’s some bozo Australian soldiers deciding to blatantly break lockdown restrictions themselves.


Originally Posted by brokenagain (Post 10829249)
Police forcing people to remain inside their Flemington housing commission apartments sounds very similar to the stories of buildings in Wuhan being welded shut to keep people inside. It’s Chairman Dan’s socialist utopian dream coming true!

Isn’t it funny how all you guys who bashed China for being an authoritarian dictatorship by locking it’s citizens in their apartments in January when the virus hit there, then turned around in March and denounced China for not locking their citizens in their apartments faster and sooner than they did to supposedly stop the spread of the virus overseas?

If Dan A locks people in their apartments to stop the virus spread he’s an authoritarian dictator, but then if he doesn’t and the virus spreads the same people would call him an incompetent disease spreader who should’ve lockdown harder to prevent virus spread.

What you’re seeing is politics at work. The same reason why the premiers of QLD and WA have been slammed for border closures but the premiers of TAS and SA have basically escaped criticism for doing the exact same thing. I wonder what the difference is....?

-41 5th Jul 2020 03:38

dr dre, the results speak for themselves, Victoria is infested others are not.

currawong 5th Jul 2020 03:49

I feel some sympathy for Premier Andrews, in spite of the obvious.

He moved early, he moved hard. I suspect because he knew the public/ public servants he was dealing with.

That it failed in implementation is inexcusable.

The thin line we walked before that had people squealing is nothing compared to where we are heading now.

rmm 5th Jul 2020 03:52

Why did he take so long too act? One security guard was associated with the first family cluster. Had he properly quarantined this group and their contacts
we might not be where we are today. Why he let it get out of control before he acted is beyond me.

Green.Dot 5th Jul 2020 04:11


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10829265)
What makes you think military personnel would’ve been acted any differently? Here’s some bozo Australian soldiers deciding to blatantly break lockdown restrictions themselves.

Probably the fact that they did hotel security successfully in other states.

Soldiers playing up outside of work ain’t a good look for defence, but when in uniform and under the direction of their superiors they will perform their duties diligently.

currawong 5th Jul 2020 04:20

He does not have much to work with.

This is who is responsible for "the response to communicable disease incidents and emergencies".


And for balance...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-...eared/12215532

Bodie1 5th Jul 2020 09:09


What makes you think military personnel would’ve been acted any differently?
That was a serious question was it?


If Dan A locks people in their apartments to stop the virus spread he’s an authoritarian dictator
The 'Chairman Dan' comments are more about the nanny state he is trying to create in Victoria. Having lived in 3 states, Victoria is the Beijing of Australia.

Stickshift3000 5th Jul 2020 09:57

I worked numerous shifts as a health practitioner in Vic’s hotel quarantine system. I witnessed numerous infection control shortcomings, and not just with the security guards as the media portrays. It should all come out in the inquiry.

I’m not partial to either side of politics; it wouldn’t have mattered which side was in charge. The same incompetent department staff would have overseen the under resourced and overworked staff at the front line.

Ragnor 5th Jul 2020 10:05


Originally Posted by Stickshift3000 (Post 10829418)

I’m not partial to either side of politics; it wouldn’t have mattered which side was in charge. The same incompetent department staff would have overseen the under resourced and overworked staff at the front line.

Well no you’re wrong. both sides of politics have done very well in other states and territories.

Dan Andrews is the problem here.


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