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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Potsie Weber 27th Sep 2021 13:01


Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink (Post 11117439)
Respectfully, it actually does matter what these people think. The idea of having the border closed permanently is nothing short of idiotic and that point needs to be clearly articulated to these people.

We elect our politicians to lead the country and not take these populist positions that are currently taking place (A fanciful concept I know). What the WA and QLD premiers are doing is made all the more disgraceful by the fact that they have both recently been re elected. They can move away from popularism and lead their states (and in turn the rest of the country) out of the pandemic towards Covid Normal.

Love him or hate him, what John Howard did after Port Arthur with gun control was incredibly unpopular with his voter base - but he knew it was the right thing to do and so acted decisively and lead the country through that turbulent time. That was one of the last times a political leader in this country has actually had the courage of their convictions to make an unpopular decision.

Keeping the state borders closed is disastrous for the economy in the long run, is disastrous for those that are away from home / family for whatever reason and is slowly but surely killing the aviation industry (rather relevant given this is a professional pilot forum).

So I will call it out now - anyone that is advocating for state borders to remain closed once the country reaches 80% vaccination rate should be quickly told in no uncertain terms to pull their heads in.

I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Howard brought in gun control to prevent people dying, opening up a COVID free state, even at 80% vaccination, will cause a spike in deaths from zero to wherever. NSW and VIC are lucky in a way, they don’t have to make that decision, to willingly allow COVID in. They will likely see a rise in deaths, but they aren’t going from COVID zero, and I believe that makes it very different. I wonder what Chairman Dan’s attitude would be if Victoria was sitting on zero COVID at the moment? Even NSW might be more hesitant if they had zero COVID and WA or QLD had significant community spread.

Im in no way saying COVID zero is a viable strategy, but I do understand the decision to open up from COVID zero is not that straight forward.

galdian 27th Sep 2021 13:30


Originally Posted by Potsie Weber (Post 11117591)
I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Howard brought in gun control to prevent people dying, opening up a COVID free state, even at 80% vaccination, will cause a spike in deaths from zero to wherever. NSW and VIC are lucky in a way, they don’t have to make that decision, to willingly allow COVID in. They will likely see a rise in deaths, but they aren’t going from COVID zero, and I believe that makes it very different. I wonder what Chairman Dan’s attitude would be if Victoria was sitting on zero COVID at the moment? Even NSW might be more hesitant if they had zero COVID and WA or QLD had significant community spread.

Im in no way saying COVID zero is a viable strategy, but I do understand the decision to open up from COVID zero is not that straight forward.

No offence - but who the f**k cares what Chairman Dan might/might not do if Victoria was zero COVID.
We're NOT - and NSW is NOT - so what's the way forward?

Look forward...like, you know...the future rather than...the past. :ugh:

Cheers.


WingNut60 27th Sep 2021 14:09


Originally Posted by galdian (Post 11117565)
Gladys (and to a lesser extent Chairman Dan) have decided at some stage crash through or crash will be required. That time - for them - is now.

Totally depends on whether you believe Delta can be eradicated/suppressed or similar.
Personally I don't think it can be, others may disagree, fair enough.

I believe Delta will force all states/territories to have their own crash through or crash moments.
I can't see - logically - any other expectation.

Cheers.

Yes. I agree.
But I think that time is when everyone who wants to get vaccinated has either been vaccinated or has had a reasonable opportunity to do so.
And not before.

galdian 27th Sep 2021 21:46


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11117646)
Yes. I agree.
But I think that time is when everyone who wants to get vaccinated has either been vaccinated or has had a reasonable opportunity to do so.
And not before.

I thought that's what all the "70%, 80%" stuff was about in determining when things could/should open up?
Completely agree it should me more looked at as everyone who wants to be vacc'd has had the opportunity, I would hope that approximates the 70-80% stuff which appears accepted as the baseline to work from.

Then lets just throw in a few "90%" comments to confuse the punters - leadership at its best.

Cheers

WingNut60 27th Sep 2021 22:31


Originally Posted by galdian (Post 11117833)
I thought that's what all the "70%, 80%" stuff was about in determining when things could/should open up?
Completely agree it should me more looked at as everyone who wants to be vacc'd has had the opportunity, I would hope that approximates the 70-80% stuff which appears accepted as the baseline to work from.

Then lets just throw in a few "90%" comments to confuse the punters - leadership at its best.

Cheers

The 70 / 80% proposal has NEVER been sufficiently explained to the Oz public.
Ask most which group the 70 - 80% applies to and they'll have no idea.
And do the masses understand that these rates are all about keeping the health systems in functioning order and that preventing deaths is only a side-benefit?
I doubt it.

And to relax controls before everyone who wants it has had the opportunity for double vaccination is morally reprehensible.


neville_nobody 27th Sep 2021 22:58


And to relax controls before everyone who wants it has had the opportunity for double vaccination is morally reprehensible.
But leaving people to die alone, blowing up the economy, taking away people's lively hood, destroying businesses isn't???

PoppaJo 27th Sep 2021 23:07

Looks like Queensland’s time is up.

A outbreak is about the only thing that will get this woeful vax rate up. My fellow citizens up here need a massive kick up the ar$e.

WingNut60 28th Sep 2021 00:17


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 11117855)
But leaving people to die alone, blowing up the economy, taking away people's lively hood, destroying businesses isn't???

That's not happening on this side of the continent.
But may well happen if the controls are relaxed too early.

No Idea Either 28th Sep 2021 00:22

But she says ‘there’s no need to panic’ PoppaJo, not yet at least….maybe after the grand final though, then she’ll panic. Oh the hypocrisy of it all………

WingNut60 28th Sep 2021 00:25


Originally Posted by No Idea Either (Post 11117874)
But she says ‘there’s no need to panic’ PoppaJo, not yet at least….maybe after the grand final though, then she’ll panic. Oh the hypocrisy of it all………

Principles vs $$$$$$

Chronic Snoozer 28th Sep 2021 02:33


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11117846)
The 70 / 80% proposal has NEVER been sufficiently explained to the Oz public.
Ask most which group the 70 - 80% applies to and they'll have no idea.
And do the masses understand that these rates are all about keeping the health systems in functioning order and that preventing deaths is only a side-benefit?
I doubt it.

And to relax controls before everyone who wants it has had the opportunity for double vaccination is morally reprehensible.

As is sitting on a billion dollar surplus while overseeing a maxed-out health system; COVID not included.

WingNut60 28th Sep 2021 05:32


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 11117894)
As is sitting on a billion dollar surplus while overseeing a maxed-out health system; COVID not included.

I confess that, luckily, I have no idea of the extent to which the WA Health system is maxed out, or otherwise.
Nor do I know where the problem might lie. I last heard that the Fiona Stanley Hospital had floors still empty.
I suspect that it's mainly about lack of staff rather than facilities. I stand to be corrected.

McGowan is doing himself no favours by failing to respond to the criticism.

But I do refer to my previous post; what is the quick fix for the current situation?
I can see no improvement in staffing levels until the international border opens and immigration resumes.

Lead Balloon 28th Sep 2021 05:58

Yep. It has little to do with money and much to do with expertise.

Without immigration Australia's public health system would collapse. That's why there's an ongoing scramble to import expertise through Australia's 'closed' international borders.

Chronic Snoozer 28th Sep 2021 06:41


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11117922)
Yep. It has little to do with money and much to do with expertise.

Without immigration Australia's public health system would collapse. That's why there's an ongoing scramble to import expertise through Australia's 'closed' international borders.

Why not pay nurses etc what they're worth? Why the need for immigration? PPP could be the reason. There's plenty of problems money can fix.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/...28-p58vb0.html

And to be fair they are claiming to be doing something about it but it's questionable why this wasn't done sooner.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/...08-p58guu.html

Lead Balloon 28th Sep 2021 07:34

Questionable? It's unquestionably abject incompetence.

But because Australia's used to make the quickest buck the laziest way, it's become highly dependent on the immigration Ponzi scheme. It's impossible to grow enough doctors and nurses quickly enough locally, because it's just that.

Green.Dot 28th Sep 2021 09:13


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 11117860)
Looks like Queensland’s time is up.

A outbreak is about the only thing that will get this woeful vax rate up. My fellow citizens up here need a massive kick up the ar$e.

So Anna, will it be go ahead with the NRL grand final or keep Queenslanders safe? I know you are completely genuine with the later, so surely money won’t be a consideration will it? :}

galdian 28th Sep 2021 09:28

Wasn't Queen P having a soiree of her couple of hundred/thousand closest money contributors in the near future.

Now will THAT continue, one must get one's priorities straight.

SHVC 28th Sep 2021 18:54

The NRL GF will go ahead no doubts there. Come Tuesday tho, state wide lockdown have to quach the virus, QLDnrs you’re doing a great job blah blah blah. Whilst NSW, ACT and Victoria will very much enjoy a 2019 style xmas I think QLD will be spending it alone and isolated not only from the country, but, even their next door neighbors. .

ChrisJ800 28th Sep 2021 20:43

They only start lockdowns in school holidays!

layman 30th Sep 2021 22:15

Victoria reported 1,438 cases yesterday.

Also reported that 93% of these cases were unvaccinated.

In a couple of weeks about 7% of theses cases will end up in hospital (~100) with about 1% (~14) likely to end up in ICU.

The unvaccinated are going to cause the hospital system grief for some time yet.


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