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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

gerry111 15th Aug 2021 12:34


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11095150)
As long as it’s not an investment property you can go!

These days, they're all purchased as investment properties! Owner occupied ones are simply for dodging capital gains tax..

Cirressna 15th Aug 2021 13:28

Hang up the wings, zero is here to stay.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw-...14-p58iqs.html


Australia’s plan to reopen and move beyond lockdowns this year will be in jeopardy unless NSW drives COVID-19 case numbers close to zero as well as hitting a vaccination target of 70 per cent of the adult population.Experts predict Victoria and other states could return to a COVID-normal situation if vaccination targets were reached and case numbers remained low, but NSW would be shut out by the rest of the country.


If Australia did open up at 70 per cent adult vaccination with daily cases in the hundreds, as they were in NSW on Saturday, modelling from the Doherty Institute suggests 385,000 coronavirus cases and almost 1500 deaths could occur in six months.

To avoid thousands of cases a day, states and territories – including Victoria – would be required to continue using border closures and lockdowns even after hitting 80 per cent vaccination.
They had us for a moment there.

SHVC 15th Aug 2021 17:20

The premiers are drunk on power. We will never have our freedoms back like in 2019. Get used to it, if you were able to leave Australia now is a pretty good time to. It will be a mad max world here this time next yr.

MickG0105 15th Aug 2021 21:55


Originally Posted by Blackout (Post 11095492)
...
But now, against the Australian Constitution (now this is important), my medical history will have to be disclosed after they introduce the Vaccine Passport, nationwide.
...

Which section of the Australian Constitution do you think would be contravened?

compressor stall 15th Aug 2021 22:12


Originally Posted by MickG0105 (Post 11095696)
Which section of the Australian Constitution do you think would be contravened?

.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2b9122762.jpeg

layman 15th Aug 2021 22:39

Vaccination passports
 
As had been said several times before, vaccination passports aren’t new.

I came across my old vaccination record the other week (passport sized pale yellow booklet): smallpox, cholera, yellow fever, typhoid, and another I’ve forgotten.

Had to show this before you could gain entry to many other countries. Not vaccinated = no entry.

Not a medical record; just vaccinations.

KRviator 15th Aug 2021 22:39


Originally Posted by Cirressna (Post 11095456)
Hang up the wings, zero is here to stay.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw-...14-p58iqs.html

If Australia did open up at 70 per cent adult vaccination with daily cases in the hundreds, as they were in NSW on Saturday, modelling from the Doherty Institute suggests 385,000 coronavirus cases and almost 1500 deaths could occur in six months.
They had us for a moment there.

Holy snappin' duckshyte! 1,500 deaths in 6 months? That's like, what? 3,000 deaths a year?

That's less than half of that caused by voluntary tobacco smoking, according to the ABS and Cancer Council. Guess they'd better ban the durries, now, too!

Ciressna is right though. No Premier, except Gladys most likely, is going to accept a thousand cases a day in a 70-80% vaccinated population. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Westralia, Af-Danistan and Queen-P's-Land have all pinned their re-election campaigns on the "But only I can keep (kept) you safe!" mantra. They - particularly McGoose - will never tolerate such case numbers, even if every man, woman and child in the Country is double-vaccinated against Covid.

As I referred to previously, look at a country like Iceland, that is significantly vaccinated and extrapolate their case percentages to our population, and see what you get. Do the same for the UK and the numbers aren't that different. Around 7000 (Iceland) - 10,000 (UK) cases per day in a vaccinated population.

As of today, the UK has 89.4% of their adult population with one jab, 76.7% have had two, and they're racked up 26,750 cases, and (only) 61 deaths (Source). Our population is ~38% of the UK's so, there's 10,000 cases right there. And 25 deaths.

Iceland - a global leader in vaccination has 64 new cases (Source), with our population being 7422% of theirs, so 4,700 new cases with their 14 day average being 396.2, or for our population, 7,500 a day...

Israel, by all reports one of the first countries to introduce the nationwide vaccine is around 78% of eligible people double-vaccinated (Source), yet even they racked up 4,100 new cases on Saturday (Source) against a population of 9.0M (34% of ours), so an Australian-equivalent 12,000 cases / day!

Covid-Zero? We've got no hope, nor does any other country, but so long as we have state leaders - and their lapdog CHO's pushing a Covid-Zero agenda - Australia as a nation has got stuff-all chance of an internal reopening, no matter what our vaccination numbers are.

And then, what's the outcome of that? Indefinite lockout of NSW? Temporary lockout of Victoria? Permanent G2G passes so the DPRW knows who's coming and going, and where you will stay while in the DPRW and (of course) being able to track you via their G2GNow app, that they now mandate you must use?


Which section of the Australian Constitution do you think would be contravened?
I'm not sure it'll be introduced nationwide, but in the event some states require you to have it, but your home state does not, then s.117 would apply, as was found by Stephen.J in Henry v Boehm and covered in the Street judgement, which is currently the litmus test for s.117 cases. The reason s.117 would apply is simple, because (for example) if WA required all incoming travelers (but not citizens travelling within WA) to have a Vaccine Passport, the "disability or discrimination" would not be equally applicable as the WA resident was already in that other state. Being WA.

Paragraph377 15th Aug 2021 23:10

Most importantly our Politicians, senior bureaucrats and CMO’s all have their jobs still. In fact, no job keeper for them as they have had 2 pay rises in 18 months. Heck, most get to avoid hotel quarantine and move about rather freely. Funny thing that. I mean, they are such important people (in their own eyes).

I think Australia’s population will (barely) tolerate this lockdown shit until Scotty’s magical 80% vaccination figure is reached. After that, well who knows. Hopefully millions will descend upon each politicians home and demand their freedom that way.

43Inches 15th Aug 2021 23:16

Yeah 1500 deaths sounds like the high end anyway, once vaccination reaches 75%+ combined with Australias sparse population outside the city centers it will not spread like it is in those countries. I will definitely "call bollocks" to any suggestion lockdowns are necessary after that. The sad thing is we could have hit the targets by now, or kept the virus out with some simple smart measures. Sydney is as overrun by covid as Kabul is with Taliban.... It's just band-aids on shotgun wounds until the vax target is met.

Sydneys death rate is already way down on last year and compared to Melbourne. One simple reason the vulnerable and older are mostly vaccinated and isolated, with better protocols to keep them safe.

Ninthace 15th Aug 2021 23:29


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11095714)
.

As of today, the UK has 89.4% of their adult population with one jab, 76.7% have had two, and they're racked up 26,750 cases, and (only) 61 deaths (Source). Our population is ~38% of the UK's so, there's 10,000 cases right there. And 25 deaths.

It is weekend in the UK. We don’t die as much at weekends, it is a reporting thing. UK death rate is 635 a week and rising gently.

43Inches 15th Aug 2021 23:33


It is weekend in the UK. We don’t die as much at weekends, it is a reporting thing. UK daily death rate is over 100 a day and rising gently.
I'd be interested to know if the daily death rates are "due covid" or "with covid". Because now that the virus is so wide spread the chance of dieing "with covid" is much higher but the virus is not the underlying cause of death. This is a genuine question, as it directly relates to how deadly the actual virus is, and I don't know how the UK reports deaths in the mainstream. The monthly mortality figures definitely make the distinction, but they are analysed before release a month or two after.

PS after checking some reporting websites the realtime data is based on whether a person had tested positive within 28 days before or had covid listed on the death certificate. Both in no way are an effective method of determining whether covid actually caused the death. The mortality stats will definitely be very important here to understand what is happening. In past instances without vaccinations Covid on the death cert was about 20-30% higher instances than Covid as the underlying cause of death. For those confused by it, the Death certificate will list the main cause of death, plus anything else that "may" have contributed, covid will be listed if infected, but not determined to be the cause. These numbers are then put in a database using a digitised medical code with no explanation. J128/U071 is died from Pneumonia/cause Covid.

Xeptu 15th Aug 2021 23:35


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 11095729)
Most importantly our Politicians, senior bureaucrats and CMO’s all have their jobs still. In fact, no job keeper for them as they have had 2 pay rises in 18 months. Heck, most get to avoid hotel quarantine and move about rather freely. Funny thing that. I mean, they are such important people (in their own eyes).

I think Australia’s population will (barely) tolerate this lockdown shit until Scotty’s magical 80% vaccination figure is reached. After that, well who knows. Hopefully millions will descend upon each politicians home and demand their freedom that way.

Or we could do it the traditional way and have an Election

Gnadenburg 16th Aug 2021 00:21

I think this will go beyond partisan politics in the months ahead when vaccinations rates high and citizens still losing their livelihoods and freedoms. Vietnam-era Moratorium marches come to mind. Significantly bigger as this bureaucratic and governance train wreck continues with a disease that once vaccinated, younger generations will accept as being largely non-fatal to them.

Xeptu 16th Aug 2021 00:25

Is it too soon for a Shaun Micallef comedy sketch ripping off the world leaders arguing over who's not doing their fair share in this population cull target.

Turnleft080 16th Aug 2021 00:47

Not confirmed, ruthless Dan considering an all Melbourne curfew, just listening to 3aw. Whatever it takes to squash 20 nagging cases. More to come in the presser I guess.

Capn Rex Havoc 16th Aug 2021 01:24


As had been said several times before, vaccination passports aren’t new.

I came across my old vaccination record the other week (passport sized pale yellow booklet): smallpox, cholera, yellow fever, typhoid, and another I’ve forgotten.

Had to show this before you could gain entry to many other countries. Not vaccinated = no entry.

Not a medical record; just vaccinations.
Yeah the difference is you have a CHOICE if you want to go to a country that has those vaccination requirements and you don't want to get vaccinated. It is not the same as if you need to buy groceries, or fly domestically. A vaccination passport in the domestic sense will see riots and protests.

Speaking of riots and protests - I haven't seen any riots or protests in the UK with groups chanting "END THE FREEDOMS - BRING BACK THE LOCKDOWNS" .....


StudentInDebt 16th Aug 2021 01:33


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 11095759)
Not confirmed, ruthless Dan considering an all Melbourne curfew, just listening to 3aw. Whatever it takes to squash 20 nagging cases. More to come in the presser I guess.

Judging unscientifically by my tram ride home from work yesterday (anecdotes are not data), there is a significant minority who are not complying with the spirit of the rules in Victoria. Not doing at 20 cases per day does not seem to have worked out well for NSW.

43Inches 16th Aug 2021 01:43

No one is being forced to vaccinate. There will come a time that you will have problems of access to places and jobs without appropriate vaccination. This is entirely legal, like mandating safety equipment or already as vaccinations required for day care attendance etc. Things that are required by basic rights will not be able to restrict, such as access to basic health care (hospitals). But a shop/doctor/airline/library/restaurant etc etc... could place requirements to be vaccinated to enter.

https://business.gov.au/people/customers/refuse-service

Right of refusal of service is acceptable for safety grounds, and also comfort of other clients. You could refuse entry to someone that is physically offensive in odour.

43Inches 16th Aug 2021 01:55

Yes I agree the chance for discrimination increases with any restrictive process. So vaccine passports, well who knows, there's also the worry that these "passports" turn into "national ID" cards. Something the Coalition has been pushing on for a while, which starts to encroach on police state technology. In the US the actual amount of restriction from businesses is low, it really serves no purpose other than block a member of the community from buying your product.

Most people and businesses would already not want anyone obviously sick on the premises and they would be asked to leave or barred entry.

Foxxster 16th Aug 2021 02:01

ACT 19 cases yesterday so things are taking off there. Lockdown extended another two weeks until early Sept.


As for any talk of lockdowns after reaching 80% vaccinated, pure irresponsible idiocy. WA premier talking of it and by the sounds of it the NSW chief health officer Kerry Chant. And it sounds like the NSW premier agrees. Where is the leadership.


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