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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

John Eacott 9th Aug 2021 09:16


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11092153)
And I will update myself… Byron Bay and surrounding areas have just been locked down. These people must be put in jail.

I was super lucky this morning: tasked by BloodBikes Australia to Lismore Hospital to pick up his COVID sample to take to Brisbane for genomics tracing, then I was cancelled and the Lismore medical courier sent instead.

No doubt I would have been sent into lockdown had I ridden there and back :eek:

Potsie Weber 9th Aug 2021 11:57


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11092212)
Actually No. The National Cabinet Plan isn't aiming for zero community spread after Phase C, which is at 80% vaccination. All states are due to hit that target by December. The WA CHO made this statement: WA's Chief Health Officer Andrew Robertson wants to see at least 80 per cent of the WA population vaccinated before we get to a point where lockdowns and border closures are no longer needed.

The key is vaccination numbers, and 70% initially, then 80% more firmly, to end restrictions.

Mark McGowan has stepped up criticisms of Gladys Berejiklian's response to Sydney's COVID-19 outbreak, declaring her comments indicating the need to "live with" the Delta variant were "totally wrong". "I just want to be totally clear - we cannot accept that position. We don't live with it. We don't tolerate it. We don't let it linger," he said.

"We suppress it and we get rid of it. That is the Australian approach to the virus."

Mr McGowan previously hinted at enforcing an indefinite hard border with NSW unless the state can "crush and kill the virus".

"We still reserve the right to lockdown in specific locations if absolutely necessary.



I strongly doubt that even with 80% vaccinated, WA will have an open border to NSW if there are still hundreds of cases per day. I think it was on the radio a few days ago that McGowan said the national cabinet agreement was zero community transmission.










rattman 9th Aug 2021 12:03


Originally Posted by John Eacott (Post 11092240)
I was super lucky this morning: tasked by BloodBikes Australia to Lismore Hospital to pick up his COVID sample to take to Brisbane for genomics tracing, then I was cancelled and the Lismore medical courier sent instead.

No doubt I would have been sent into lockdown had I ridden there and back :eek:

Yeah avoid lismore like the plague. The 2 kids of the byran bay man have been caught are in lismore hospital apparently

Transition Layer 9th Aug 2021 12:11


Originally Posted by Potsie Weber (Post 11092314)
Mark McGowan has stepped up criticisms of Gladys Berejiklian's response to Sydney's COVID-19 outbreak, declaring her comments indicating the need to "live with" the Delta variant were "totally wrong". "I just want to be totally clear - we cannot accept that position. We don't live with it. We don't tolerate it. We don't let it linger," he said.

"We suppress it and we get rid of it. That is the Australian approach to the virus."

Mr McGowan previously hinted at enforcing an indefinite hard border with NSW unless the state can "crush and kill the virus".

"We still reserve the right to lockdown in specific locations if absolutely necessary.



I strongly doubt that even with 80% vaccinated, WA will have an open border to NSW if there are still hundreds of cases per day. I think it was on the radio a few days ago that McGowan said the national cabinet agreement was zero community transmission.

McMaoan better be careful sprouting off that sort of nonsense or he’ll never get anywhere near 80%. You need the threat of cases to get people vaccinated. No cases, no threat of community transmission and you’ll struggle to even get past 70%. His loyal subjects, the apathetic bogan majority in WA, have been lulled into a false sense of security thanks to him. The national vaccine stats confirm it.

Although part of me thinks it may be his plan after all. The closed border is winning him votes and no one can leave to spend their money in more interesting parts of the country or the world...he probably doesn’t care if 80% is ever reached, because it gives him the power to stay shut for a lot longer.

SOPS 9th Aug 2021 12:51


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11092322)
McMaoan better be careful sprouting off that sort of nonsense or he’ll never get anywhere near 80%. You need the threat of cases to get people vaccinated. No cases, no threat of community transmission and you’ll struggle to even get past 70%. His loyal subjects, the apathetic bogan majority in WA, have been lulled into a false sense of security thanks to him. The national vaccine stats confirm it.

Although part of me thinks it may be his plan after all. The closed border is winning him votes and no one can leave to spend their money in more interesting parts of the country or the world...he probably doesn’t care if 80% is ever reached, because it gives him the power to stay shut for a lot longer.


Please be careful . We are not bogans. My wife and I are both fully vaxed with AZ. We are very happy with what Mark does ( and are life long Liberal voters).

Please think twice before you make these sweeping statements .

nonsense 9th Aug 2021 13:19


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11091327)
There’s an identified cognitive condition that describes it, the Dunning Kruger effect. It’s people who are so unintelligent they don’t have the capacity to realise they are incorrect (you don’t know what you don’t know).

The Dunning Kruger effect isn't a "cognitive condition", we're all prone to it; and it's not about a lack of intelligence.
The Dunning Kruger effect is about ignorance and confidence; it's about ignorance breeding confidence; a certain level of understanding helps one understand just how little one does know.

You've demonstrated it quite well by claiming it's about intelligence.

WingNut60 9th Aug 2021 13:26


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11092322)
Although part of me thinks it may be his plan after all. The closed border is winning him votes and no one can leave to spend their money in more interesting parts of the country or the world...he probably doesn’t care if 80% is ever reached, because it gives him the power to stay shut for a lot longer.

No bogans here either. Two more days and my wife and I will be fully vaxxed.
That this is only happening now has absolutely nothing to do with Mark McGowan but falls 100% into ScoMo's lap.


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11092322)
The closed border is winning him votes and no one can leave to spend their money in more interesting parts of the country or the world...he probably doesn’t care if 80% is ever reached, because it gives him the power to stay shut for a lot longer.

The closed border is winning him no votes at all. The freedom of movement, continuing employment and freedom from disease is certainly a vote winner though.
You see, most West Australians are quite capable of forgoing pilgrimages to the Sydney Bowlo provided they are still gainfully employed, healthy, enjoying an otherwise unencumbered lifestyle and don't have to worry about how they can get to Grandad and Nan's funeral.

As for the travel, we should be OK for SA, VIC, QLD, NT and Tassie again before too long.
And we'd still be able to commute with NZ if Beryl hadn't screwed the pooch.

dr dre 9th Aug 2021 13:40


Originally Posted by Potsie Weber (Post 11092314)
I think it was on the radio a few days ago that McGowan said the national cabinet agreement was zero community transmission.

It's this episode from ABC Radio last Friday starting from 24 minutes into the program. It's clearly stated the National Cabinet goal is for suppression with no community transmission given our current vaccination rates (18%), not future rates (70/80%). Currently the nation is in Phase A, in which no community transmission is the goal agreed to by all states. Then when you get to Phase B and C that changes. The WA government has made statements saying the 70% to 80% vaccination rate is when hotel quarantine and lockdowns can be ended.

EDIT:

Here's the Doherty Institute modelling that was used in formulating the decisions made by National Cabinet. Check out the tables on page 17 and 18. The numbers of cases, hospital admissions, ICU admissions and deaths are noted at various levels of vaccine coverage. Although the higher rates of coverage at 70 and 80% markedly decrease the numbers they are still somewhat prevalent, but all states and territories and the feds signed off on the Roadmap based on this modelling. So all States and Territories are acknowledging there will be some spread and fatalities, just at much more manageable numbers with a high level of vaccination.

aviation_enthus 9th Aug 2021 15:39


Originally Posted by Boe787 (Post 11092136)
Penalties are clearly not sufficient deterrent…..fines don’t matter to some…so perhaps if they seem to like moving around….take their drivers licence and passport from them for 5 Years!
As alluded to in previous posts, these transgressions are costing the country billions, so we need tougher penalties.

Or perhaps you guys getting all worked up about this could realise NO system will have 100% compliance.

No current law has 100% compliance.

So if the “health response” can’t cope with a small minority breaking the rules, the system needs to be strengthened.

Transition Layer 9th Aug 2021 20:51


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11092370)
No bogans here either. Two more days and my wife and I will be fully vaxxed.
That this is only happening now has absolutely nothing to do with Mark McGowan but falls 100% into ScoMo's lap.


The closed border is winning him no votes at all. The freedom of movement, continuing employment and freedom from disease is certainly a vote winner though.
You see, most West Australians are quite capable of forgoing pilgrimages to the Sydney Bowlo provided they are still gainfully employed, healthy, enjoying an otherwise unencumbered lifestyle and don't have to worry about how they can get to Grandad and Nan's funeral.

As for the travel, we should be OK for SA, VIC, QLD, NT and Tassie again before too long.
And we'd still be able to commute with NZ if Beryl hadn't screwed the pooch.

Good for you getting jabbed, but you and SOPS are not the people I was referring to. I live in Perth, I mix in various cross circles of the community. I am well aware of the vibe out there. It is one of apathy when it comes to getting vaccinated. I hope I’m wrong, but happy to revisit this in 4 months time when I suspect WA will still be at the bottom of the jab tally, hovering around 65%. Unless of course there’s a sustained breakout in which case there will no doubt be vaccine queues and panic.

As for your comment about the border policy keeping people gainfully employed, have a look around mate. You’re on a pilot forum. I think very few people here would now have a more secure job thanks to Chairman McMaoan!

blubak 9th Aug 2021 21:22


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 11092317)
Yeah avoid lismore like the plague. The 2 kids of the byran bay man have been caught are in lismore hospital apparently

I guess they dont believe the virus is real either or maybe their father has changed his mind now.

WingNut60 9th Aug 2021 21:37


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11092559)
As for your comment about the border policy keeping people gainfully employed, have a look around mate. You’re on a pilot forum. I think very few people here would now have a more secure job thanks to Chairman McMaoan!

You're correct. I wasn't singling out industry groups. And McGowan's policies have obviously had a significant intermittent, impact on the inter-state aviation sector.
But my office is directly under the approach to 24 - intra-state traffic doesn't seem to have suffered much while the mining sector is still protected by McGowan's policies and still very bullish.

But tell me, how is inter-state and intra-state aviation doing in NSW at the moment? Gonna hang that off McGowan too?



SHVC 9th Aug 2021 22:04


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11092584)
You're correct. I wasn't singling out industry groups. And McGowan's policies have obviously had a significant intermittent, impact on the inter-state aviation sector.
But my office is directly under the approach to 24 - intra-state traffic doesn't seem to have suffered much while the mining sector is still protected by McGowan's policies and still very bullish.

But tell me, how is inter-state and intra-state aviation doing in NSW at the moment? Gonna hang that off McGowan too?

NSW problems are caused by NSW government, today Chant and Hazzard are to front a parliamentary inquiry (which is as pointless as national cabinet) over the advice she provided to NSW government about when Sydney needed to lockdown.

NSW is as cooked as a Turkey on xmas day, for me, the most frustrating thing is ppl know they wont get criminally charged with anything. Its now time to charge these rule breakers they need to be in a court and going to the clink its happening daily these clowns doing their own thing.

StudentInDebt 9th Aug 2021 22:47


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11092559)
Good for you getting jabbed, but you and SOPS are not the people I was referring to. I live in Perth, I mix in various cross circles of the community. I am well aware of the vibe out there. It is one of apathy when it comes to getting vaccinated. I hope I’m wrong, but happy to revisit this in 4 months time when I suspect WA will still be at the bottom of the jab tally, hovering around 65%. Unless of course there’s a sustained breakout in which case there will no doubt be vaccine queues and panic.

Or the resources sector insist that all employees/contractors are vaccinated as a condition of employment. Should see a pickup in the uptake!

Foxxster 9th Aug 2021 22:50


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11092591)
NSW problems are caused by NSW government, today Chant and Hazzard are to front a parliamentary inquiry (which is as pointless as national cabinet) over the advice she provided to NSW government about when Sydney needed to lockdown.

NSW is as cooked as a Turkey on xmas day, for me, the most frustrating thing is ppl know they wont get criminally charged with anything. Its now time to charge these rule breakers they need to be in a court and going to the clink its happening daily these clowns doing their own thing.


it is truly unbelievable. The latest I heard this morning about this clown who went to Byron bay after visiting his covid positive wife is that he is saying he went there to look at a property to purchase. And you guessed it, there is an exemption in the lockdown rules that say you can leave your area for such a purpose. There is no distance limit put on how far you can go. So it looks like yet another fork up by our wonderful public servants. Just like the non compulsory measures for the driver who started all this. And there would be plenty of these useless public servants on two hundred thousand a year plus who gave the thumbs up to these rules. Yet none will suffer any consequences. They have also not lost a single cent since this all started 18 months ago.

having said that, I would hope he can be charged with public endangerment having visited his covid positive wife before going.

dr dre 9th Aug 2021 22:59


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11092608)
it is truly unbelievable. The latest I heard this morning about this clown who went to Byron bay after visiting his covid positive wife is that he is saying he went there to look at a property to purchase. And you guessed it, there is an exemption in the lockdown rules that say you can leave your area for such a purpose. There is no distance limit put on how far you can go.

Of course. The real estate industry and property developers have a stranglehold on all governments but especially Berejiklian and her deputy Barilaro, up to their necks in property developer influence. Housing price growth and real estate sales will always be maintained, that’s non negotiable.

KRviator 9th Aug 2021 23:20


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11092212)
The WA CHO made this statement: WA's Chief Health Officer Andrew Robertson wants to see at least 80 per cent of the WA population vaccinated before we get to a point where lockdowns and border closures are no longer needed.

The key is vaccination numbers, and 70% initially, then 80% more firmly, to end restrictions.

So what is his plan if we do not achieve that figure? Because, so far as I can tell, there isn't one! These are "targets", these 70%, 80% figures, and while they are based on "health advice" they do not provide any guideline or response should these goals not be met! But also from that article:

Jaya Dantas from Curtin University's School of Population Health says it is a "hugely ambitious target". I am not sure at this stage whether we will reach 80 per cent," Professor Dantas said. No country has reached even 70 per cent. The USA and the UK are slightly over 50 per cent of the population.
Meanwhile, in Iceland...

Iceland is experiencing its worst Covid-19 pandemic outbreak. That’s despite near-total vaccination levels. And what Delta’s doing there may now be a sign of things to come for Australia. The small island nation of 357,000 citizens has become a case study of the effectiveness of vaccination against the Delta mutation.

Some 96 per cent of all Icelandic women over 16 have received at least one vaccine dose. The figure for men is about 90 per cent. In total, 86 per cent of the population has been fully vaccinated.

Originally Posted by WingNut60
But my office is directly under the approach to 24 - intra-state traffic doesn't seem to have suffered much while the mining sector is still protected by McGowan's policies and still very bullish.

Actually, not quite true. My employer is desperately crying out (begging might be a better term...) for crew to do significant overtime (residential) or change from their contracted 2/2 to indefinite 2/1 roster's (FIFO) due to the effect the border restrictions are having on their interstate FIFO crew, offering many thousands of dollars in incentives, LAFHA and the like to try to keep things moving. But that carrot is running out, particularly for a lot of interstate FIFO Driver's who have been held hostage by WA for more than a year. They want to go home to see their families, and they're becoming increasingly prepared to do just that and wear the lost AL or go on LWOP knowing they can't get back in to WA, no matter how hard the major ore producers insist interstate FIFO crew are essential to their operations.....

WA's budget has been kept afloat by record iron ore prices, nothing more. I can only wonder what their response would have been if the spot price was back in 2016 levels, below $50 a tonne...

Global Aviator 9th Aug 2021 23:49

Singapore is pretty close!

https://www.gstatic.com/onebox/sport...con_square.png
Singapore
Total doses given 8.04M
People fully vaccinated 3.81M
66.8 % fully vaccinated


Torukmacto 10th Aug 2021 00:11


Originally Posted by Global Aviator (Post 11092640)
Singapore is pretty close!

https://www.gstatic.com/onebox/sport...con_square.png
Singapore
Total doses given 8.04M
People fully vaccinated 3.81M
66.8 % fully vaccinated

Singapore’s Goverment can tell the people of Singapore what is going to happen and that’s what happens . Better to compare to Australia to democracies like India , U.K. or America to see where we might be heading ? Being an island has delayed what’s coming that’s all .

dr dre 10th Aug 2021 00:13


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11092631)
So what is his plan if we do not achieve that figure? Because, so far as I can tell, there isn't one! These are "targets", these 70%, 80% figures, and while they are based on "health advice" they do not provide any guideline or response should these goals not be met! But also from that article:

Well I guess the plan, as agreed to by National Cabinet, is to remain in Phase A, so lockdowns and restrictions.

But I don’t think that’ll happen, just to clarify the rates of 70 and 80% are based on the over 16 population, not total population. So that would boost Australia’s rate to 23% at the moment, and then you have the UK over 70% of over 18s, Canada at 71% of over 12s, and the trend line in vaccinations in those countries is still heading upwards so Australia’s targets should be achievable.


Meanwhile, in Iceland...
Also, meanwhile, in Iceland (from the same news.com.au article which in typical news.com.au fashion sensationalises the headline but buries less fearing mongering info deep in the article):The latest outbreak – despite its size – has so far claimed none (lives).

It (the vaccine) is limiting hospitalisation and death.

Iceland’s government is not discouraged.

“Evidence shows that the vaccines used in Iceland protect about 60 per cent of those fully vaccinated against any kind of infection caused by the Delta variant of the virus and over 90 per cent against serious illnesses,” Iceland’s Director-General Bryndís Kjartansdóttir said.

“About 97 per cent of those infected have mild or no symptoms.”

For a more sensible take on the situation in Iceland check out this:

Fact Check-COVID-19 cases in Iceland are not proof that vaccines are ineffective



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