Name and Shame?

How is it - half of us are doing the right thing - yet some people persist to do the wrong thing and continue to operate and break laws after being penalised...?

We keep having holidays in WA.

Oh those naughty AFL players from Richmond good to see they're having a blast and taking the pi$$.

Ensure those borders are shut air tight tho Anastasia.

No no no,she cant shut them if theres a $ involved,got to recoup some losses somehow.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/20...SAEB_A5qb4d3ks

Well done NT.

Not really, massive kick in the guts to unemployed Aussies. Oh we are not Aussies anymore anyway the federation is on course for a break up

If you read it - they are still well short on labour in the local market and trying to get more "Aussies" to get the product in the box.

If you have ever tried picking mangoes, you would be aware it is not for everyone and not everyone is/can be good at it.

As soon as the borders are open will we see you apply? - I will not try it again.

Well it turned out to be a pretty expensive piss-take.
Waiting for the cries of discrimination to follow no doubt...

So if you leave the “Sovereign State of WA” and perhaps visit Relo’s or friends in say QLD, NSW will you be able to return, or are you banished from the Kingdom for ever...at least until the whole country has had 28 days of no community transmission.

if that is the case, maybe we will see a movie such as Papilion on WA Devil Island?

To paraphrase the Eagles... “ You can check out anytime you like.. but chances are, you won’t be allowed back.”

Nothing like being held hostage by your elected officials!

You don’t have to look far
 

Sweden and other countries that went through a proper wave in March/April have plenty of “good news stories” about how to protect the vulnerable.

Yes they had a high death rate amongst aged care homes. But within this bad news there are numerous stories of homes with NO deaths. They were the ones that were proactive and moved ahead of the government rules.

Things like:
- staff are only allocated to one centre
- preventing cross contamination between areas within individual centres
- limiting or stopping family visits during high case numbers
- no casual staff (all staff have paid sick leave so they will actually stay home when slightly ill)
- proper PPE training and equipment for staff members
- providing proper medical care (including oxygen) to COVID patients within aged care homes

Most of these things DID NOT happen in Australia as well. Especially in the Federally regulated centres. Even today its only VOLUNTARY that staff restrict themselves to working in one centre!!!

It’s not rocket science. The virus has been in the world for over 6 months now. There’s more than enough evidence of things that have worked to aim for better rules and regulations. We don’t have to reinvent the wheel. We don’t even have to come up with some brilliant plan. Just proper allocation of resources were the threat actually lies (over 70’s) would be a good start.

Open the borders between states.

Masks in all shopping centres, buses etc.

Protect our aged care homes and prioritise services that allow over 70’s to avoid public areas as much as possible (like home delivery, home medical visits, etc).

Let the rest of us get back to work as much as possible. The only thing saving us so far is JobKeeper. Watch how fast public sentiment changes next year when unemployment really starts to bite. When more people start losing homes.

Thank you very much for a reply with some detail - I shall respond later to a few of your points.

Ah Yes Sweden again!

Remember the Cross Roads Hotel; one infection from interstate and there goes the NSW run of containment. It only takes one to start it all as Melbourne has seen; containment only happens when everyone is on board. At the moment that will not happen while people are following their own self interest.

The experts say better than 80% compliance with social distancing and heigene is what you need to sustain containment. According to to the CHO Victoria was around 85%; in June that was 25% and kahboom.

My side of MEL over the lat couple of days has been like a f***ing boxing day sale. The sun comes out and the masks (if people are bothering) are in their pockets or under their chins.

If that's not bad enough, the non-believers will be out in force tomorrow to protest the lock-down they themselves are perpetuating.

How the f*** do you protect the vulnerable; let alone the population against a bunch of f***wits who don't give a crap?

And that’s why we are happy in WA.

Don’t try to speak for all WA pilots! Mark McMuppet is now way out of his league and history will not treat him well. WA is not it’s own country run by the dictatorship of the state Labor party. It’s very easy to skew polls and media coverage in today’s world. Sandgropers are nowhere nearly as content with the current leadership and their dictatorial directives as you may have been blindly lead to believe. Stupid is as stupid does.
As an adjunct, do your own research into why McMuppet suddenly has more security and minders.

This Is the issue. We’re all in Aviaton and, quite frankly at the moment it sucks, worse than anything any of us have seen for the industry, and most of us have seen personally but, there’s more going on than that.
there’s an absolute majority of the country right now that aren’t locked down, and living in near ‘normality’. That can and is being preserved. That’s also what’s keeping the country ticking as well as it is. This idea that we can open up, and go back to normal is absurd. The countries that have tried this have seem much more economic harm than we have and live day to day with the virus. As much as this all hurts right now this is in my opinion the best way to get as many of us back to work, as quickly as sustainably possible.
The objective should be a medium, long term one. Not a short term view.

Best post on this thread so far aviation_enthus.
We need to stop searching for the Holy Grail and start following the KISS principle.

We just have to wait for December thats all there is to it. Then they will say June 2021. Reality is,no normal will happen until there is a vaccine

Mark McGowan is going to look like a dick if everyone else opens borders this December while the poor folks out west are just waiting...waiting...until the 13th March, then bang, borders open.

You are absolutely spot on with what is required.
The issues in the aged care sector could be solved by doing all the things suggested & by the federal govt mandating these requirements.
As you say,it is under their control & its not rocket science.
For those that think it cant happen in a state outside of victoria,you need to think again as the rules are the same right across the country.
The aged care system is regulated by a government intent on running it with a casualised work force with lowest possible pay rates whilst making sure the operators are well looked after allowing maximum profits.

My Tip, NSW will fall and the borders won't be open for Christmas.

We will see what happens when the iron ore price tumbles or when China decides upon an alternate supplier.
Many unexpected events/decisions happen in our world when least expected.

Who is stupid is an matter of opinion, WA has a 17% population that agree with you, the very reason the borders are closed.

https://www.health.gov.au/news/opera...er-2020-at-6pm

There are now less than 100 facilities with outbreaks, for the first time in a month.

• There are 97 facilities with current outbreaks – this has dropped by 24 in the past week.

How does COVID get into over 100 aged care facilities in one state? Also what defines "high risk" as apparently there are none at the moment?

All seems quiet on the vaccine front, thats the only way out of this horrible mess. Everyone does not realize or want to accept that at the moment. the 7 states and territories agreed in principle on December just to fob off the gov and shut them up. Vaccine people accept it.

After Scott Morrision 45 minutes of nothing yesterday is to go buy, there could be much more serious issue brewing in the back ground. WA will possibly lead the way I think they could possibly want to split from the federation which no bother to me but could lead to QLD thinking they could do the same then the domino effect. Wouldn't be the first time WA have raised this.

That’s a nice positive attitude mate. Geez, you and Telfer must be a hoot to talk to at a BBQ!

Hahaar! but seriously, the successful states are those that closed their borders and stopped the virus, there's no half measure, you either do it or you don't, I don't see that those states who have chosen the half measure have the right to impose that on any other state. The impact upon the states economy is just as bad if you have rolling stoppages every couple of weeks. I truly hope NSW doesn't end up like VIC, but what are the odds. It's playing with fire.

Don’t we all mate, that’s why I don’t think it’s helpful to make such statements of COVID taking over NSW by Xmas. To tell you the truth NSW has fared far better than what I would have predicted after the Victorian debacle. So let’s hope that run continues. I have full respect for Gladys, she appears to be the only one balancing the economy ahead of her own political gain. Yep it’s a balancing act but so far a job well done by her and her team.

What’s definition of success with this virus Xeptu? States and territories can’t come up with a definition maybe you have one!

NSW has achieved what was originally set out in March which was agreed by all. NSW is very open now it’s just the tourism industry that’s crippled. Closed to VIC rightly so Gladys is very keen to open to VIC when she can.

Over a thousand people a day are going to and from Ballina from the supposed scary city of Sydney not to much is happening there from a covid perspective, so again I would like to know why states and territories are closed to each other with zero to limited cases! I get that QLD and WA are way behind in crisis management, NSW would be happy to send out our expertise to teach them on how to do it.

WA imposing hard lockdown on its border is a violation of human rights now, not a virus problem locking ppl away not allowing free movement. Cases will arise of ppl not being able to be with family in times of sickness, death even the upcoming xmas holidays or whatever arises because of the border issue and that’s when ppl will get fed up with the border closure. QLD will be the same their residents have NSW family they can’t afford the quarantine on the way back so will miss out on weddings, funerals can’t be with a terminally ill loved one and they to will have problems arise soon.

Only so long people will be happy to have their border shut but soon as it directly affects them they will realize.

Western Australia doesn’t appear in the preamble to the Constitution Act:.

.....WHEREAS the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, and Tasmania, humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God, have agreed to unite in one indissoluble Federal Commonwealth.....

Maybe that’s why it’s Govt is so recalcitrant on the border issue and the ongoing secessionist ideas that bubble along within the State.

Again I thank you for putting in a effort in your reply.

I will start with Sweden - The Swedish constitution prevents a lock-down in peace time. The government agency responsible :- in this case the Public Health Agency must initiate all actions (recommendations) to prevent the virus in accordance with Swedish law. The Swedish public is expected to follow a series of "NON- VOLUNTARY" recommendations from the responsible government agency. On 18 March, the Health Agency recommended that everyone should avoid travelling within the country, on 13 May this "recommendation" was softened to "commonsense travel" 1-2 hrs from home. This was mostly lifted about 3 months later on 13 June. Mobile phone tracking revealed most people followed the recommendations.

I could be mistaken, but that sounds like the lock-down you are having when you are not having a lock-down.

It is worth noting Sweden does not have internal borders unlike Australia, it is about double the size of Victoria with roughly double the population.

Sweden certainly has a high number of deaths (even following recommendations) it is very high compared to other Nordic countries. On current measurable data the slump in the economies is similar with other Nordic countries and without sign it will improve faster than other countries. Sweden had schools and universities closed and other measures were taken, but most think it was mostly a free to do anything approach because the government did not (could not) make rules.

In Australia we have known via many media reports that our aged care has been very bad, highlighted by numerous current affairs shows over more than a decade - WE have done nothing to address this, the old Jack system at play.

​​​​​​​That said 2017-18 more than 1.2 million people received aged care services (over 65) only 7% (84,000) accessed residential aged care (aged care homes).
22% (264,000) accessed subsidised support at home.
71% (852,000) without subsidised support at home.

​​​​​​​So the vast majority of the vulnerable elderly people live at home and get visited by age care worker/s varying times a week mostly by staff on close to the minimum wage. While it is easy to lock-down an aged care home, that will only protect around 7% of that group (age only) of vulnerable people. The rest are spread throughout the community and with restrictions removed will be exposed to greater community transmission - age care workers, home delivery, medical visits, gardener, plumber are all a greater risk of transmission to them than now.

Then there are the other vulnerable groups - one being around 800,000 Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander people.The science over the last 6 months proves we do not have enough evidence on what has worked, heard immunity is a perfect example or if it is possible to catch the same strain twice? Obviously after 6 months it is not possible to know what long term health impacts are on mild severe cases after recovery. Even the at risk age ranges from 50 to 60 and 70 (a lot of people 50 up to 69).

​​​​​​​I am not sure we have the ability or the resources to protect the vulnerable, it is a far greater task than locking up the aged care facilities. If of course there is sincerity in protecting all the vulnerable in a partly humane way.

​​​​​​​I am also guessing that most of Australia's individual wealth is held by around the 60ish age group - might not be the best idea economically, to isolate them - that could be a spectacular backfire.

The rest of the world has figured out that you can't stay closed for ever. Other countries are just learning to live with it. Whilst that may not be popular for some people, unless you want your economy to go into depression it's really the only option.

Many countries seeing spikes in cases are not getting anywhere near the hospitalisation rates this time around. Wasn't flatten the curve the idea in the first place?

Definition of success. Zero community transmission.

You know the medical side of my family are aghast that Airline Pilots don't regard themselves as vulnerable people. They say that if you think the medical industry isn't going to have issue with those recovered people with organ damage and free radical blood clots flowing around their bodies, you would be seriously mistaken.

Backing you up with figures.

FRANCE. Look at deaths vs case numbers for the second wave. Non-existent.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....da1346600.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....427424aec.jpeg

So the first infected ppl are having long term affects from the virus already?! I’m not a Dr not going to pretend to be wouldn't it would be a little to early to attribute blood clots and other medical issues to covid.

If you have 26 million people with a viral respiratory infection, be it pneumonia, influenza, or COVID, of course some will unfortunately have long term effects. Stay scared in your cave Xeptu.

According to the girls (Medical) apparently not, it's a very common emerging issue. Not that I care personally, I'm retired, it's your medical certificate, your call., do whatever suits you.

And therein lies the rub.
You don't care. You are retired; likely with your nice house(s), pension/super/investments. Getting up each morning and reading the paper, PPRuNe and pottering around in your own little world.
You could apparently care less if the borders never reopen.
Sod the rest of the population.

As I alluded to previously but you chose to be obtuse, I hope that when YOU are ready to accept the rest of Australia, that you don't mind if WE turn our backs on you and say sod off- stay in your own little world for a few more years. We realized we don't need you.

If you leave WA you get a free fortnight's holiday on arrival back. Pretty cheap I've heard and what's not to like about a view over the Swan?