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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Foxxster 7th Jul 2021 03:20


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 11074503)
Unless there is a tightening of restrictions, Sept could be ambitious

no year specified… 2022 ? 2023 ?

MickG0105 7th Jul 2021 03:36


Originally Posted by aviation_enthus (Post 11074501)
It would be useful to at least collect the data on how many are vaccinated.

Yes, it would.

glekichi 7th Jul 2021 03:51

Someone tell me if I've got this completely wrong, but;

If the vaccine works and you get exposed to the virus you're still possibly going to give a positive PCR result as they can pick up the virus RNA even after its been defeated.
Even the governments seem to be ignoring this in their consideration of PCR results - the PCR doesn't mean the virus is still live.

Ladloy 7th Jul 2021 04:04

All hail Comrade Gladys

PoppaJo 7th Jul 2021 04:11

Looks like it’s taking off in the South West. Ring fence it for heavens sake and kill it.

You cannot rely on the people in those specific areas to follow the rules. She is pleading with them do obey the rules please please please. They are largely the great unwashed and have no idea.

dr dre 7th Jul 2021 04:22


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 11074503)
Unless there is a tightening of restrictions, Sept could be ambitious

It she would’ve just taken it seriously rather than boast about how NSW can handle anything better than any other state.

I know McGowan is loathed here but 3 quick lockdowns and it’s over in a few days. 12 days in total. Now Sydney is looking at 21 days minimum. That’s if the people of Sydney actually take the restrictions seriously. I saw pictures from Bondi Beach over the last week, it was packed and almost no one wearing a mask even if just strolling or sitting. In Perth it is almost unseen to see a person without a mask outside during lockdown unless they are doing heavy exercise.

You can blame the government for their slow acting, but the people’s lax approach to taking this seriously is equally contributing to their situation.


SOPS 7th Jul 2021 05:19

Gladys and NSW was the Gold Standard that the rest of us should follow… until it wasn’t. She has lost control of this.

It really appears that lots of Sydney is just not listening and/or just don’t understand what lockdown means. (Especially in some ‘multi cultural’ areas.)

This could go on for weeks.

(I for one, think that Mark has done a good job.)

dr dre 7th Jul 2021 05:33

And for the “Covid isn’t really that bad” brigade:

347 cases in this NSW outbreak
37 in hospital (over 10%)
14 of those under 55 (40%)
7 in the ICU, one of those in their 30s.

Yes, vaccination will establish a herd immunity and get things running back to normal but we just don’t have enough vaccinated yet to do this.

jrfsp 7th Jul 2021 06:01

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-...lled/100273956

Questions as to whether NSW will return to covid zero status. I do wonder if this is purposeful by the state gov, based on the current restrictions blind Freddy can see that it wont be enough to go back to covid zero.

If this is the case it will have serious implications for domestic (and TT) travel, with NSW essentially cut off from the rest of the country until the vaccination reaches the required threshold (Whatever that % is).


Stickshift3000 7th Jul 2021 06:20


Originally Posted by glekichi (Post 11074522)
Someone tell me if I've got this completely wrong, but;

If the vaccine works and you get exposed to the virus you're still possibly going to give a positive PCR result as they can pick up the virus RNA even after its been defeated.
Even the governments seem to be ignoring this in their consideration of PCR results - the PCR doesn't mean the virus is still live.

There are NO tests out there that can determine if the virus is viable ('alive'), or to differentiate between viable and non viable virus particles. The labs and public health authorities understand this.

PCR replicates a piece of the virus's DNA many times, so that if it's present in a sample (swab, blood sample etc) the DNA can then be detected by traditional lab techniques.

It's debatable whether viruses are living organisms; most of science deems them not to be:
https://www.newscientist.com/questio...viruses-alive/

SOPS 7th Jul 2021 06:20


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 11074556)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-...lled/100273956

Questions as to whether NSW will return to covid zero status. I do wonder if this is purposeful by the state gov, based on the current restrictions blind Freddy can see that it wont be enough to go back to covid zero.

If this is the case it will have serious implications for domestic (and TT) travel, with NSW essentially cut off from the rest of the country until the vaccination reaches the required threshold (Whatever that % is).


Did you read the third dot point in the article above?

She is talking about life after October…. I think she is warming NSW up for something. I could we wrong of course.

neville_nobody 7th Jul 2021 06:49


I for one, think that Mark has done a good job.
Sure but at what price? You can argue endlessly about which strategy is best but the other States need to realise how big Sydney is and you can't just keep grinding to halt every time someone sneezes.

If they just let it go, it could bankrupt an airline or both as all the other states won't open up to them.

jrfsp 7th Jul 2021 06:58


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 11074581)
Sure but at what price? You can argue endlessly about which strategy is best but the other States need to realise how big Sydney is and you can't just keep grinding to halt every time someone sneezes.

If they just let it go, it could bankrupt an airline or both as all the other states won't open up to them.

I think the two majors could cope with NSW out of action IF all the other states are open to each other. The biggest loser would be SYD - the buyout offer could be very timely.

The other potential loser would be the ACT, who are basically lumped in with NSW.

SOPS 7th Jul 2021 07:02


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 11074581)
Sure but at what price? You can argue endlessly about which strategy is best but the other States need to realise how big Sydney is and you can't just keep grinding to halt every time someone sneezes.

If they just let it go, it could bankrupt an airline or both as all the other states won't open up to them.


Can you please explain the point you are trying to make. In your fist paragraph you say “ you can’t shut down Sydney”. In your second, you say, “ if they just let it go it could bankrupt an airline. “

Which is it? Lockdown or let it rip? You can’t have both.

KRviator 7th Jul 2021 07:15


Originally Posted by aviation_enthus (Post 11074486)
Nope you’ve read it wrong.

From the 1st March
- 458 total cases
- 11 of the those cases were in fully vaccinated travellers
- 405 were unvaccinated.

If you consider that as a percentage of arrivals:
- 1st March to 26th June (15.5 weeks)
- NSW takes 3000 per week
- 46,500 arrivals.

So those 11 FULLY VACCINATED positive cases represent 0.0002% of all arrivals.

Yep, I'll cop that and I agree my figures were wrong.

Originally Posted by aviation_enthus
But don’t let some facts get in the way of your irrational fear.

It's only irrational if it isn't based on fact.

Given the response of various state Premiers so far to relatively insignificant numbers of cases, when viewed against population, I'd argue it is completely rational! Take McGowan, no local cases in my LGA since time began, but still locked out - and based on his CHO's 'irrational fear' it doesn't look like I]'ll be going back to work anytime soon. So much for science-driven decisions. The complete lockout is nothing more than scaremongering and political point scoring.


Originally Posted by dr_dre
I know McGowan is loathed here but 3 quick lockdowns and it’s over in a few days. 12 days in total. Now Sydney is looking at 21 days minimum.

I wouldn't bother comparing WA to NSW, look at how many each state has taken in international arrivals, both raw data and as percentages of the Australian population. WA doesn't hold a candle to NSW in that regard. In the period April 20-April21 (last month for which figures are available) Perth took 35,896 international arrivals. Sydney took 165,018. And let's not forget McGowan is often the first to whine about the number of arrivals, agreeing to take 1000/week, and being pretty quick to drop it to 500-odd if something happens he doesn't like. Fewer arrivals = lower risk = fewer outbreaks = fewer lockdowns and the smug asrehole has the gall to say "look how good we are, everyone should learn from us!":yuk:


Originally Posted by neville_nobody
Sure but at what price? You can argue endlessly about which strategy is best but the other States need to realise how big Sydney is and you can't just keep grinding to halt every time someone sneezes.

If they just let it go, it could bankrupt an airline or both as all the other states won't open up to them.

That'd be an interesting argument if Gladys wanted to play that game. Declare "No more international arrivals via Sydney - you other Premiers want Aussies to come home, you step up and carry the load, we've got our own issues" and just see how long it took for other states to give in. Melbourne could pick up a bit of the slack, Anna-Stayaway would probably baulk at it. But how long until one of the other premiers blinked in the game of chicken? Or forced ScoMo's hand should QF/VA/Rex go to the wall with interstate travel at a fraction of what it should be?


Fonz121 7th Jul 2021 07:28

Personally I think it’s great that it’s out in the community bubbling along. Everyone needs to lose the elimination mindset, it’s not going to happen. The only way restrictions get relaxed is when the general public finally accept that a Covid case is not ‘Breaking News’.

Additionally, every single person in this country (over 18) has now had a chance to vaccinate. If you are that worried about getting Covid you can get the vaccine available. If not, you can have your own private lockdown where you work from home and get everything delivered.


neville_nobody 7th Jul 2021 07:29

The problem is how the other States will react if NSW just let it go. That is going to cause major headaches for the airlines.

The States went to Canberra and agreed that lockdowns were the last resort. McGowan walked out and said that his definition was different so WA will be carrying on as they were and locking down early. We could very easily be at gridlock again if the country can't agree on a strategy.

jrfsp 7th Jul 2021 07:35


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 11074602)
The problem is how the other States will react if NSW just let it go. That is going to cause major headaches for the airlines.

The States went to Canberra and agreed that lockdowns were the last resort. McGowan walked out and said that his definition was different so WA will be carrying on as they were and locking down early. We could very easily be at gridlock again if the country can't agree on a strategy.

The premiers agreed to lockdowns being the last resort as of "Phase 3 or 4" of scotty's cunning plan. Essentially when vaccination has reached that magic number (which is yet to be disclosed).....we are nowhere near that at the moment.

I cant see any other state doing anything other than covid zero until that point. The economic damage would be too great (greater than that of a lockdown anyhow).

kingRB 7th Jul 2021 08:22


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11074547)
And for the “Covid isn’t really that bad” brigade:

347 cases in this NSW outbreak
37 in hospital (over 10%)
14 of those under 55 (40%)
7 in the ICU, one of those in their 30s.

oh totally - 347 is an amazing data set to back that position and invalidate all the rest of the data collected around the world that says otherwise.
Maybe you'd like to expand on the metabolic health of these people who've been struck down with this plague to end all plagues. Or didn't news.com.au go into that?




blubak 7th Jul 2021 08:46


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11074542)
Gladys and NSW was the Gold Standard that the rest of us should follow… until it wasn’t. She has lost control of this.

It really appears that lots of Sydney is just not listening and/or just don’t understand what lockdown means. (Especially in some ‘multi cultural’ areas.)

This could go on for weeks.

(I for one, think that Mark has done a good job.)

What you describe has been the problem almost everywhere,the minority(in most cases) that thumb their noses at requests to stay home yet complain the loudest when things get worse or the ones who say they dont understand yet have no issues undetstanding how to apply for benefits.
She probably should have imposed a harsher lockdown but as i have said before,governments are dammed if they do & dammed if they dont.


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