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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

aviation_enthus 25th May 2021 12:31


Originally Posted by ozbiggles (Post 11051069)
Check out Taiwan's present circumstances if you want to know what happens with your course of action.

Not sure a comparison with Taiwan is useful to your argument....
- island
- quarantine restrictions on arrival
- democracy
​​​​​​- reasonable health system
Seems pretty similar to Australia to be honest, oh and they even have a more pathetic vaccine roll out than we do!! Never thought Iíd say that, but there you go...

If you really want to use Taiwan, itís a perfect example of what could happen in Australia. An outbreak in a largely unvaccinated population.... Ring any bells???

ozbiggles 25th May 2021 13:23

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

AE, That's the exact point I'm trying to make to those who are saying throw open the borders so pilots may fly international beyond the current green zone.

Taiwan is in the middle of an out break with a 7 day average of new cases over 400 (sorry if those facts are a bit shocking to you Troo). The leading suspect for how it got into the country and spread....airline pilots who only have to do 3 days in isolation.

https://www.traveller.com.au/taiwan-...-pilots-h1vr9j

Troo believer 25th May 2021 14:01


Originally Posted by ozbiggles (Post 11051137)
What we have here is a failure to communicate.

AE, That's the exact point I'm trying to make to those who are saying throw open the borders so pilots may fly international beyond the current green zone.

Taiwan is in the middle of an out break with a 7 day average of new cases over 400 (sorry if those facts are a bit shocking to you Troo). The leading suspect for how it got into the country and spread....airline pilots who only have to do 3 days in isolation.

https://www.traveller.com.au/taiwan-...-pilots-h1vr9j

So tell us then what quarantine requirements does the New Zealand government require of its returning aircrew? Do you even know?

None from Asia and two days and a negative pcr if returning from the USA (designated high risk). Did the crew from Taiwan practice quarantine whilst away overseas ? We do as do the Kiwis yet they have sfa quarantine and we have 14 days. What happens if a returning Kiwi crew member comes back positive? No quarantine, roaming around infectious and low and behold COVID into Australia via the back door from NZ and yet they’ve just locked out Victorians from travel. Wrong again mate but keep trying.

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/fi...al_interim.pdf

blubak 25th May 2021 22:47


Originally Posted by ozbiggles (Post 11051069)
So if people don't agree with you Troo they should go somewhere else? Bad luck.

It is possible for people to think beyond their own circumstances and think of the big picture.

Even some pilots believe the international travel should be prevented to areas where it is not safe to do so. I'm one of them.

All things considered the economy is doing OK considering it had to take on a 1 in a hundred year event. Now comes the repair so it can be ready for the next unknown unknown.

Check out Taiwan's present circumstances if you want to know what happens with your course of action.

Agreed the economy is doing ok & probably not a good idea to fly to unsafe areas & as far as people needing to think beyond their own circumstances HOW TRUE.
We have idiots here in victoria using public transport & not wearing a mask,we have others such as a mature couple i saw a couple of weeks ago going into a pub/bistro & when told to register their response was 'oh,do we have to' & then yesterday a drive show host mocking the new mask restrictions by telling people if they were at a wedding to just walk around with a glass of champagne & then a mask is not required.
What hope have we got with ignorant selfish people amongst us.

dysslexicgod 26th May 2021 00:57

Troo Believer, I understand your pain at your loss. However you are stuck up that river in Egypt - denial.

‘’You can open all borders if you like, but nobody here is interested in outbound tourism because we can’t get travel/health insurance for Covid - yet.

‘’Inbound tourism is not practical either until we can demonstrate the level of infection control necessary to protect our population.

‘’That means nobody is going to spend disposable income on international travel, some of that money is redirected into the domestic economy. Domestic tourism is thriving. I know that from personal observations.

Face it, what we had is gone and it’s never coming back. Something new is going to take its place. You can spend your energy two ways; pining about what you lost or building your new future. Your choice.


brokenagain 26th May 2021 03:47

Meanwhile, 50% of all American adults have received their first doses. Fortress Australia is going to be left behind the rest of the western world over the next 6 months.

Cirressna 26th May 2021 03:51


Face it, what we had is gone and it’s never coming back. Something new is going to take its place. You can spend your energy two ways; pining about what you lost or building your new future. Your choice.
This kind of 'fortress' rhetoric is old, dangerous and needs to start to be called out more often. It's this style of talk that is responsible for the predicament we are in now re vaccines and hesitancy. You'll find it in the comments of any news article/facebook post related to borders or aussie covid. Usually baby boomer and white (yes, important because you have little/no family overseas - o/s travel isn't just holidays). Just the small scare down in Vic has driver vaccine rates through the roof so the tides are changing. From personal experience, everyone we know has done their token domestic holiday and is now dumping their savings in the offset for an o/s trip when borders open.

I constantly see alarmist rebuttles to any border argument 'WELL DO YOU WANT TO END UP LIKE INDIA?!!' or my favourite 'ONE WORD, INDIA.'
We're not a third world country the size of QLD with 1.35 billion people crammed in. End of story.

Let's keep it really simple, not like the old capt's briefs
Let's call up to the vaccine rollout 'Phase 1' and the part we are in now vaccinating, 'Phase 2'
Let's compare to to our big friends the US/UK whom we share a lot with culturally.

USA/UK
Phase 1 = bad
Phase 2 = good

AU/NZ
Phase 1 = good
Phase 2 = bad


And note the resilience score for Australia with it's current rules set? I'll give you some time to pick up your dummy.
This reference to how we did in Phase 1 is no longer relevant, it's done, dusted, finito. We need to move forward onto phase 2.

The vaccines have now been proven against all variants (including the more contagious NOT more deadly Indian variant).
Like a few others have said, once the vaccine rollout hits that golden number, we need to stop counting cases. The world will open again - here's a fun experiment, go to flightradar24 on global view and filter to show any aircraft 767 or larger. You may be surprised.

dysslexicgod 26th May 2021 04:41

Cirruscessna:

This kind of 'fortress' rhetoric is old, dangerous and needs to start to be called out more often. It's this style of talk that is responsible for the predicament we are in now re vaccines and hesitancy. You'll find it in the comments of any news article/facebook post related to borders or aussie covid. Usually baby boomer and white (yes, importantant because you have little/no family overseas - o/s travel isn't just holidays). Just the small scare down in Vic has driver vaccine rates through the roof so the tides are changing. From personal experience, everyone we know has done their token domestic holiday and is now dumping their savings in the offset for an o/s trip when borders open.
.....We who have actually been taught and practiced business strategy know that the smartest and safest way to deal with potential change is to engage with it. The dumbest, stupidest, response to potential change is to put your fingers in your ears and scream "make it go away!". Yet that is what I see so many doing right here.....

It is obvious that for now the days of mass international travel are finished, at least for the time being, until we can solve the problem of preventing infection of our populations with Covid 19. The main vector for Covid 19 as far as Australia is concerned is international air travel. That means you and your employer. In equity fairness and natural justice, that means your career and profitability, despite what Virgins CEO may believe, are of no account at all compared to the life of an octogenarian in a nursing home. Zip, nada, nothing. YOU are the problem.

Instead of whining about boomers and white males and pining for the past, you might like to contribute to solutions based on a few general observations...

- The days of hubbing through places like Dubai where you can rub shoulders for a few hours with the creme de la creme of Africa, the Middle East and Asia on your way to Europe are gone until you and your fellow travellers possess ironclad protection against Covid.

- The days of using an A380 are similarly numbered for the above reason.

- At present, there is no travel insurance available that covers Covid, let alone excess hospital capacity for non citizens in the rest of the world.

- While health passports will need to be reinstated, their integrity is currently problematic.

- Present solutions in place in Europe and the USA do not necessarily translate to Australia since their risk profiles are different thanks to land borders,, etc.

-Solutions we might adopt may be too expensive or inappropriate for developing countries.

You might like to think about the above instead of just screaming "make it go away!"




Foxxster 26th May 2021 04:52


Originally Posted by brokenagain (Post 11051488)
Meanwhile, 50% of all American adults have received their first doses. Fortress Australia is going to be left behind the rest of the western world over the next 6 months.


we are progressing well despite a pretty poor start. With the arrival of large numbers of Pfizer vaccine, the mass vaccine centres and the 40+ age group now allowed, the rate will continue to accelerate.
Doesn’t help when you have a certain premier and their chief health officer both as yet unvaccinated and being in the over 50 age group,should have received the AstraZeneca vaccine but have stated they don’t want that one , only the Pfizer.

oh, and I did try and warn people but was shouted down, So I will repeat what I said, both the head of retail at Sydney airport and also Deloitte partner Chris Richardson have stated numbers of international travellers won’t return to what is was for at least two years.

For Australia, some form of quarantine will remain for some incoming travellers for some time," Deloitte partner Chris Richardson wrote.
"That keeps international travel (both inbound and outbound) pretty weak in 2022, and it may not return to pre-pandemic levels until 2024."
Much of Mr Richardson's forecasts rely on the speed of Australia's COVID-19 vaccination rollout, which he predicts to overtake that of the virus mutating.
"Central to the speed of that grind will be the ongoing tug-of-war between mutations and vaccinations," he wrote.
"But we continue to see vaccinations as the more likely winner of that struggle.
"So although some pain will linger – particularly as the mutations mean international borders will remain less-than-fully open for longer – most of Australia's economy looks on course to be close to pre-pandemic normal by Christmas 2021."


listen to these people…

3.61 million vaccines so far..

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vac...untry=OWID_WRL

ruprecht 26th May 2021 04:53


Originally Posted by dysslexicgod (Post 11051496)
- The days of hubbing through places like Dubai where you can rub shoulders for a few hours with the creme de la creme of Africa, the Middle East and Asia on your way to Europe are gone until you and your fellow travellers possess ironclad protection against Covid.

Ironclad protection? Do you mean zero risk?

Good luck waiting for thatÖ

minigundiplomat 26th May 2021 05:43


That means you and your employer. In equity fairness and natural justice, that means your career and profitability, despite what Virgins CEO may believe, are of no account at all compared to the life of an octogenarian in a nursing home. Zip, nada, nothing. YOU are the problem.
'kay - stop with the bold font, you're coming across as a Herald Sun reader. All of us are going to die - every last one of us, especially octogenarian's, who will probably die sooner.... that's not an opinion, its a scientific fact (not some projection from a CMO). We're all going to die, regardless of COVID or any mutant turtle strain so can we stop pretending we are all going to live forever if we keep the borders closed?

ozbiggles 26th May 2021 06:54


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 11051506)
'kay - stop with the bold font, you're coming across as a Herald Sun reader. All of us are going to die - every last one of us, especially octogenarian's, who will probably die sooner.... that's not an opinion, its a scientific fact (not some projection from a CMO). We're all going to die, regardless of COVID or any mutant turtle strain so can we stop pretending we are all going to live forever if we keep the borders closed?

Yep, lets all start drinking more, driving faster, take more drugs and breaking more rules because we are all going to die sometime....that is your projection, not some CMO which you seem to think you are smarter than. Aviation (to come back a little closer to topic) is all about risk mitigation. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead doesn't work in a Pandemic.

ruprecht 26th May 2021 07:03


Originally Posted by ozbiggles (Post 11051522)
Yep, lets all start drinking more, driving faster, take more drugs and breaking more rules because we are all going to die sometime....

Sounds like a good weekend :p

Bend alot 26th May 2021 07:07

Lots of the folk in favor of logging a few more hours early on in this event wanted to believe all sorts of numbers.

Back then they were saying how well life in Sweden was, and their action was the role model for all to follow.

Those voices are still loud, but sing a different song. The - Lets log hours now song just vax.

ozbiggles 26th May 2021 07:19


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 11051523)
Sounds like a good weekend :p

Well I haven't been subject to a ramp test since March last year so there have been some benefits.

jrfsp 26th May 2021 07:50

Ah well looks like SA has caved first, i wouldnt be surprised if the other states, bar NSW follow suit

SOPS 26th May 2021 08:03

With SA gone, I am sure WA wonít be far behind.

Troo believer 26th May 2021 08:13


Originally Posted by ozbiggles (Post 11051522)
Yep, lets all start drinking more, driving faster, take more drugs and breaking more rules because we are all going to die sometime....that is your projection, not some CMO which you seem to think you are smarter than. Aviation (to come back a little closer to topic) is all about risk mitigation. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead doesn't work in a Pandemic.

We are still waiting for your response to the question about Taiwan and its quarantine requirements for aircrew. You are wrong and know it but continue on with the lockdown narrative without any thought of the future. You didnít address the comparison posted with respect to NZ crew and their own quarantine requirements. Youíre basically full of sh*t just like a few others here. Patronising opinionated but with no facts to back up your arguments except generalisations based on nothing more than crap.

At some point in the near future, whether it be this year or next, the government will start relaxing quarantine restrictions once herd immunity is achieved. Contracting COVID will be relatively common. Itís inevitable but for some theyíre shit scared, hence the diatribe about keeping the fortress intact for their own selfish reasons. Good luck with that. You either adapt to the new paradigm or find another island.

ozbiggles 26th May 2021 08:55


Originally Posted by Troo believer (Post 11051556)
We are still waiting for your response to the question about Taiwan and its quarantine requirements for aircrew. You are wrong and know it but continue on with the lockdown narrative without any thought of the future. You didnít address the comparison posted with respect to NZ crew and their own quarantine requirements. Youíre basically full of sh*t just like a few others here. Patronising opinionated but with no facts to back up your arguments except generalisations based on nothing more than crap.

At some point in the near future, whether it be this year or next, the government will start relaxing quarantine restrictions once herd immunity is achieved. Contracting COVID will be relatively common. Itís inevitable but for some theyíre shit scared, hence the diatribe about keeping the fortress intact for their own selfish reasons. Good luck with that. You either adapt to the new paradigm or find another island.

I see you are still looking for your dummy!


blubak 26th May 2021 08:59


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 11051542)
Ah well looks like SA has caved first, i wouldnt be surprised if the other states, bar NSW follow suit

The original case came from SA hotel quarantine so im guessing the media will get stuck into Marshall just like they would into Andrews if it was a case escaping from Vic hotel quarantine,im guessing no chance.


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