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Originally Posted by layman
(Post 11100757)
WA, SA, Qld, & Tas all seem to have the same border restrictions.
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Yes you’re correct Dre, however McGoose and Palachook are very content and happy that their borders are closed and even more content at not even working with a national plan that was agreed to for a uniformed approach out of this mess. Australia seems to be on the only major country that you can’t travel over your own fricken border domestically.
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Originally Posted by SHVC
(Post 11100773)
Yes you’re correct Dre, however McGoose and Palachook are very content and happy that their borders are closed and even more content at not even working with a national plan that was agreed to for a uniformed approach out of this mess. Australia seems to be on the only major country that you can’t travel over your own fricken border domestically.
If he has contravened any agreement that he made then all West Australians should be made aware of it. |
Originally Posted by WingNut60
(Post 11100776)
In what way has McGowan "not worked with the national plan"?
If he has contravened any agreement that he made then all West Australians should be made aware of it. |
Originally Posted by SHVC
(Post 11100773)
Yes you’re correct Dre, however McGoose and Palachook are very content and happy that their borders are closed and even more content at not even working with a national plan that was agreed to for a uniformed approach out of this mess. Australia seems to be on the only major country that you can’t travel over your own fricken border domestically.
If you are infected it'll be 3 months before you can be vaccinated, 15% of those will have longcovid that will have those issues that preclude vaccination, they will be vulnerable to the disease most likely for the rest of there lives. We can't provide a date to open when we can't guarantee that. It's gut wrenching, soul destroying stuff when it doesn't happen. Are you still keen to open up. |
McGowen has already said they agreed to the national plan, now he wants that revised because NSW outbreak was not occurring at the time it was agreed. He wants zero covid before following through with the 80% and even then he will lockdown at the sniff of covid.
I ask you WA people this. If we were in the same position we were in back in June, with 80% vax rate would you agree to opening up domestic and international borders also? Or are the UK or China cases etc to high?! you have all been lobotomized to think covid zero is the only way. Yes if you lockdown stay in the cave then yeah good on you having zero. I want to open up 80% as per the plan no if’s, no buts that’s it time to move on. I want to live my life they way it should be, not live in the cave like others want to be. |
Firstly I already stated, don't worry too much about what McGowan says in the media "nationally" he must stay the path, the alternative is look like gladys and that's only going to get worse in the coming weeks.
The Answer, YES of course we are going to open up, when our population is vaccinated, post covid measures are in place and our Health System is ready. AND NOT BEFORE, no matter what you the other states or the PM has to say. |
I agree here we will see 2000 by early September that’s why NSW is going warp speed with the vaccinations. 18 months on and WA is still not ready? I’d guess you will never be ready. I’m not worried what McGowen is saying in the media that’s a WA problem, what I worry about is the WA person who listens to his rhetoric rubbish and read the endless misinformation on Facebook etc thinking that zero is the go. To make it clear I’m not trying to be a savage here I don’t want it ripping through like the next person, 80% then it’s go time no excuses.
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Originally Posted by SHVC
(Post 11100791)
I agree here we will see 2000 by early September that’s why NSW is going warp speed with the vaccinations. 18 months on and WA is still not ready? I’d guess you will never be ready. I’m not worried what McGowen is saying in the media that’s a WA problem, what I worry about is the WA person who listens to his rhetoric rubbish and read the endless misinformation on Facebook etc thinking that zero is the go. To make it clear I’m not trying to be a savage here I don’t want it ripping through like the next person, 80% then it’s go time no excuses.
Sounds like those outside WA are reading rubbish. Go Time is yet to be determined., there will be no excuses because we won't announce it until we are doing it. |
Originally Posted by SHVC
(Post 11100791)
I agree here we will see 2000 by early September that’s why NSW is going warp speed with the vaccinations. 18 months on and WA is still not ready? I’d guess you will never be ready. I’m not worried what McGowen is saying in the media that’s a WA problem, what I worry about is the WA person who listens to his rhetoric rubbish and read the endless misinformation on Facebook etc thinking that zero is the go. To make it clear I’m not trying to be a savage here I don’t want it ripping through like the next person, 80% then it’s go time no excuses.
But he has indicated that, in the face of rampant non-compliance in NSW, he thinks that the terms of the agreement are too loose. How dare he! |
Originally Posted by WingNut60
(Post 11100794)
So he hasn't actually done anything that contravenes the agreement, right?
But he has indicated that, in the face of rampant non-compliance in NSW, he thinks that the terms of the agreement are too loose. How dare he! McGowan stated he wants to continue to aim for ‘zero Covid, zero deaths’ even after 80% is reached, can you show us where that is in the National Agreement? |
Closed Borders are starting to build pressure in WA. There are plenty of sectors which are starting to complain. If miners start winging then you know there is a problem as they can afford to pay more than any other sector.
Monadelphous is paying up to 10 per cent more to hire and keep workers due to Western Australia’s stringent border closures, managing director Rob Velletri said after the engineering group reported a 29 per cent jump in annual net profit to $47.1 million. About 40 to 50 per cent of its construction workforce in the Pilbara typically comes from states other than WA, and the group has used between 2000 and 3000 fly in, fly out workers at a time over the past 12 months. ‘‘The state restrictions mean there is very little mobility of labour across the country which fly in, fly out operations just rely on,’’ Mr Velletri said. He said the biggest problem was that WA’s border closures were ‘‘so unpredictable’’ and that potential FIFO workers were worried about getting stuck in the state. Turnover of employees at Perth-based Monadelphous has doubled in the past 12 months and wages paid had risen by 5 to 10 per cent, he said. The shortages of quality workers for trades such as electricians and mechanical fitters had also increased recruitment costs, hurt productivity and made it difficult to complete existing projects on time, he said. The company, which is trying to win back ‘‘departed talent’’ amid what it claims are unprecedented skills shortages and will hire 200 or so workers over the next few months, employed 7791 people in the 12 months to June, up 37 per cent on a year earlier. It has committed to having Indigenous people make up at least 3 per cent of its workforce and is devising a new gender diversity plan. The higher costs have made it harder for Monadelphous to make money out of fixed price contracts, which make up most of its construction jobs, signed before the COVID-19 pandemic hit. Its profit margins for the full year were 5.6 per cent, flat on a year earlier. However, margins in the second half of the 2021 financial year slid to 5.1 per cent from 6 per cent in the first half, well down on the 6.6 per cent for 2019. Mr Velletri said most of the decline in second-half margins was due to the higher staff turnover and labour costs. Net profits were boosted by new resources, energy and infrastructure contracts, including work in the booming iron ore sector, but they were lower than analysts expected and its shares slid 14 per cent, or $1.70, to $10.09. Revenues in Monadelphous’s engineering construction division rose 59 per cent to $979 million as it secured $480 million of new contracts, of which nearly half were in the iron ore sector and 27 per cent in the copper sector. Maintenance and industrial services revenues dropped 7 per cent to $977 due to lower demand for its services from the oil and gas sector. Oil and gas spending had not returned to pre-COVID-19 levels, Mr Velletri said. Revenues for the financial year ending in June 2022 were likely to be lower than the previous year due to the timing of new projects, Monadelphous said. But it forecast construction activity would rebound in FY 2023. Monadelphous will pay a final dividend of 21¢ compared with a 13¢ dividend a year earlier, bringing its total dividend for the year to 45¢ compared with 35¢ a year earlier. It received $7 million of JobKeeper subsidies in the first half of the financial year. |
SHVC
"...80% then it’s go time no excuses." I might be misinterpreting the intent of your statement, but this does not appear to be what the Doherty Institute modelling is suggesting. My bolding in the following two paragraphs taken from their web site: https://www.doherty.edu.au/news-even...tute-modelling "In an average year of influenza, we would roughly have 600 deaths and 200,000 cases in Australia. Any death is a tragedy, but our health system can cope with this. In the COVID-19 modelling, opening up at 70% vaccine coverage of the adult population with partial public health measures, we predict 385,983 symptomatic cases and 1,457 deaths over six months. With optimal public health measures (and no lockdowns), this can be significantly reduced to 2,737 infections and 13 deaths. We’ve learned from watching countries that have removed all restrictions that there is no ‘freedom day’. We will need to keep some public health measures in place – test, trace, isolate and quarantine – to keep the reproduction number below 1, but as vaccination rates increase, we’ll be able to ease up further and it is unlikely that we will need generalised lockdowns." My interpretation is that only once we've reached 70% of the over 16 year olds having received two doses of the vaccine, and a further two weeks for the vaccine to become fully effective, then easing of restrictions will commence - but an immediate cessation of all restrictions will not occur. It may even be that partial lockdowns will still be required for some time yet. At least one jurisdiction is suggesting the 70% should include all those over 12 years of age. Not directly related to Covid, but to hospital capacity overall, apparently Tasmania already has endemic "ramping" occurring even with no Covid cases. ("ramping" - where ambulances spend considerable time queueing before being able to discharge patients into the care of the hospital). This was cited as one of the reasons Tasmania has severe border restrictions in place. |
I would hardly describe it as ‘warp speed’. Not even quite 1/3 of NSW fully vaccinated??!
I have serious misgivings how this pathetic jab rate will suffice if it turns out we all need to have a booster every year like the flu. If that’s the case, I can see me being due my 2022 shot before everybody has had their 2 shots. Seems nobody in Govt is able to do simple maths. |
I think some actually need to read the National Roadmap.
We are currently all in Phase A: This is what is happening now in phase A, which everyone seems to be doing: Accelerate vaccination rates; Close international borders to keep COVID-19 out; Early, stringent and short lockdowns if outbreaks occur; Minimise cases in the community through effective test, trace and isolate capabilities; Implement the national vaccination plan to offer every Australian an opportunity to be vaccinated with the necessary doses of the relevant vaccine as soon as possible; Inbound passenger caps temporarily reduced Domestic travel restrictions directly proportionate to lockdown requirements; Commonwealth to facilitate increased commercial flights to increase international repatriations to Darwin for quarantine at the Centre for National Resilience in Howard Springs; International Freight Assistance Mechanism extended; Trial and pilot the introduction of alternative quarantine options, including home quarantine for returning vaccinated travellers; Expand commercial trials for limited entry of student and economic visa holders; Recognise and adopt the existing digital Medicare Vaccination Certificate (automatically generated for every vaccination registered on AIR); Establish digital vaccination authentication at international borders; Prepare vaccine booster programme; and Undertake a further review of the national hotel quarantine network. When we get to 80% (Phase C), it won’t be freedom day or go time or treat it like the flu, there’ll still be some containment measures: Minimum ongoing baseline restrictions, adjusted to minimise cases without lockdowns; Highly targeted lockdowns only; Continue vaccine booster programme; Exempt vaccinated residents from all domestic restrictions; Abolish caps on returning vaccinated Australians; Allow increased capped entry of student, economic, and humanitarian visa holders; Lift all restrictions on outbound travel for vaccinated Australians; and Extend travel bubble for unrestricted travel to new candidate countries (Singapore, Pacific); Gradual reopening of inward and outward international travel, with safe countries and proportionate quarantine and reduced requirements for fully vaccinated inbound travellers. Even in the end stage (Phase D, treat it like the flu stage) there’s still some restrictions like quarantine from high risk countries and on arrival testing and vaccine requirements. Its going to be a gradual transition, not a “freedom day”. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 11100813)
I think some actually need to read the National Roadmap.
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Originally Posted by ExtraShot
(Post 11100796)
McGowan stated he wants to continue to aim for ‘zero Covid, zero deaths’ even after 80% is reached, can you show us where that is in the National Agreement?
My question remains "what has he done that contravenes current agreements"? |
Originally Posted by WingNut60
(Post 11100816)
But what was claimed above was that he doesn't follow the terms of the current agreements.
My question remains "what has he done that contravenes current agreements"? Pedantic, but you mean - The current step in the agreement - Fair enough, I didn't read that many posts back. . Though one could argue you don't 'Accelerate National Vaccination Rates' by saying you'll be staying shut at the agreed vaccination targets anyway, or by telling your citizens life here is normal (mine certainly isn't, and I'm not the only one by a long shot), if I'm going to draw a longish bow and again be pedantic! However, He has telegraphed that he has every intention not to follow the later steps as he sees fit. The steps, and yes I have read them, are actually very conservative and very well thought out. No, there is no 'Freedom Day', but there is also no "zero Cases, Zero deaths', anywhere. There is a reason it's not there. It just won't be possible to maintain. There is also a reason that he'll try it on, the public hospitals here are a complete and utter disaster zone and it will take them YEARS to fix the mess. And it absolutely won't be fixed with the current Health Minister in place, who I wouldn't trust to tie a shoelace. |
I'm amazed at how some of you guys interpret the written word, If it makes any difference about percentages, we in WA already have about 70% registered for their jab and no hope in hell of getting all of us that wants it, jabbed with two doses this year. We will continue to maintain zero covid until they are, then the health system has to be ready for rising cases, before any discussion will be entered into regarding open borders date. I can't make it any clearer than that.
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer
(Post 11100815)
What a buzz kill. What's the point of a rumour network if there's pre-reading involved?
Thanks! But back to matters serious, how can these be reconciled: Close international borders to keep COVID-19 out ... Inbound passenger caps temporarily reduced ... Commonwealth to facilitate increased commercial flights to increase international repatriations to Darwin for quarantine at the Centre for National Resilience in Howard Springs |
Originally Posted by Xeptu
(Post 11100848)
I'm amazed at how some of you guys interpret the written word, If it makes any difference about percentages, we in WA already have about 70% registered for their jab and no hope in hell of getting all of us that wants it, jabbed with two doses this year. We will continue to maintain zero covid until they are, then the health system has to be ready for rising cases, before any discussion will be entered into regarding open borders date. I can't make it any clearer than that.
If the WA health system can't handle a few thousand cases, with maybe 5% of those in hospital, you've got bigger problems than Covid...Though, if reports of WA hospitals having to ramp ambulances for many hours at a time are indeed accurate, then maybe you do!
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Sounds like those outside WA are reading rubbish.
Originally Posted by PerthNow
The Premier said that despite National Cabinet agreeing that Australia would open up when an 80 per cent vaccination rate was achieved, he would retain a zero COVID policy and not tolerate any cases or deaths in WA. Source
Last I checked, Zero Covid was not mentioned anywhere in the Doherty modelling or the 4-stage roadmap - and present evidence of multiple overseas jurisdictions demonstrates it is an unattainable goal, no matter your Countries' vaccination level! That being the case, for how long are Australian Citizens expected to be denied their constitutional right to travel to WA without being penalised because of the state in which they live? |
Originally Posted by WingNut60
(Post 11100816)
But what was claimed above was that he doesn't follow the terms of the current agreements.
My question remains "what has he done that contravenes current agreements"? |
The muppet can keep the ‘hard border’ up for as long as wants. Once everyone else opens up to each other and Covid is everywhere there will be no stopping it from entering WA. There are 100s of truck drivers crossing the border everyday and numerous Facebook pages with hints and tips on how to get into WA undetected (plenty of bush tracks).
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
(Post 11100910)
The muppet can keep the ‘hard border’ up for as long as wants. Once everyone else opens up to each other and Covid is everywhere there will be no stopping it from entering WA. There are 100s of truck drivers crossing the border everyday and numerous Facebook pages with hints and tips on how to get into WA undetected (plenty of bush tracks).
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That being the case, for how long are Australian Citizens expected to be denied their constitutional right to travel to WA without being penalised because of the state in which they live? That's why the protesters are double morons, if they create civil disorder they give the state further power to restrict movement. |
We know it will come into the state, we know we will have to live with it, we must maintain zero until the state is ready, it won't be this year. The Premier is entitled to stick it up the liberals any way he likes, it won't change the plan.
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11100917)
As long as the WA government can prove there is a threat to public health restriction of movement is perfectly legal. If you can prove otherwise you can force them to allow freedom of movement. International law on human rights and our constitution allows restriction of movement for public health, public order or to protect others rights. No point quoting constitutional rights if they don't apply in current circumstance. It does not even have to be a public health emergency, that just makes the case stronger for the rules.
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A state of emergency must be declared, it's not forever and we don't want it to be forever, nor will it be. |
Originally Posted by Xeptu
(Post 11100919)
We know it will come into the state, we know we will have to live with it, we must maintain zero until the state is ready, it won't be this year. The Premier is entitled to stick it up the liberals any way he likes, it won't change the plan.
you don’t need to be clear. You will have as much say in what happens with the borders as I do. |
Originally Posted by KRviator
(Post 11100878)
The Premier said that despite National Cabinet agreeing that Australia would open up when an 80 per cent vaccination rate was achieved, he would retain a zero COVID policy and not tolerate any cases or deaths in WA. Source
“If you imagine we get to 80 per cent vaccination, and Aboriginal communities, remote communities, some country towns are at much lower levels, we may have to lock those down at some point in time for whatever reason – I think that makes total sense and that was what was agreed,” Mr McGowan said. “I’m just keen to have minimal or no COVID” So a lot of nuance and media putting their own spin on quotes - not a “zero Covid policy and No cases or deaths”, just “keen to have minimal or no Covid”. Not full lockdowns at 80%, targeted lockdowns for specific areas like indigenous communities. And nowhere had the cabinet agreed to a plan where Australia “opens up” at 80%, we move to Phase C at 80% which still involves some restrictions, Phase D is more open but still there’s some countermeasures. Everything isn’t going back to normal the day we hit 80%, it’ll be better but it’ll also be gradual and phased. |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11100917)
... International law on human rights and our constitution allows restriction of movement for public health, public order or to protect others rights. ...
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Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 11100973)
Here’s an example of where the media twists a quote to get a headline where the real quote wasn’t exactly what was said:
“If you imagine we get to 80 per cent vaccination, and Aboriginal communities, remote communities, some country towns are at much lower levels, we may have to lock those down at some point in time for whatever reason – I think that makes total sense and that was what was agreed,” Mr McGowan said. “I’m just keen to have minimal or no COVID” So a lot of nuance and media putting their own spin on quotes - not a “zero Covid policy and No cases or deaths”, just “keen to have minimal or no Covid”. Not full lockdowns at 80%, targeted lockdowns for specific areas like indigenous communities. And nowhere had the cabinet agreed to a plan where Australia “opens up” at 80%, we move to Phase C at 80% which still involves some restrictions, Phase D is more open but still there’s some countermeasures. Everything isn’t going back to normal the day we hit 80%, it’ll be better but it’ll also be gradual and phased. |
Originally Posted by Keg
(Post 11100905)
Stated specifically that even at 80% he may keep the hard border up to NSW!
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
(Post 11100982)
Yep, all correct as far as I can see, why is it people turn it into something it isn't, Is it desperation driven.
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McGowan is also quoted saying:
"Our preferred option is zero COVID obviously and that's what we'll attempt to do," Mr McGowan on Sunday said WA's "preferred option is zero COVID-19" and he would not tolerate any cases or deaths in his state. "We don't want to have deaths and we don't want to have spread of the virus, but there can be some easing of some of the rules," he told Sky News Australia. What other conclusion are people supposed to make from that? |
Originally Posted by MickG0105
(Post 11100977)
The Australian Constitution is largely silent on the matter of restrictions of movement, save for s 92.
Originally Posted by dr dre
“I’m just keen to have minimal or no COVID”
Isn't "No Covid" (Your words...) the same as "Zero Covid"?
Originally Posted by The West
Mark McGowan says his “preferred position is that we don’t have COVID” He said the lockdown of NSW showed it’s “better not to have COVID” and he would only abandon borders and lockdowns as virus suppression weapons when Australia reaches the last phase of National Cabinet’s four-step plan out of the pandemic.
"Obviously, if we get cases in here certainly we will have to deal with it but we're doing everything we can to keep it out." “(Zero COVID) is now the accepted position,. People will criticise, I just want to say, ‘Look at our life, look at all this’. People out having lunch, having fun, people at work, the office blocks have got the highest staffing levels back of anywhere in Australia, our schools are operating, our economy is going the strongest in Australia of anywhere in the world — isn’t a good thing?Source
Originally Posted by WingNut60
(Post 11101025)
I am amazed that, while NSW festers, so many people are desperate to point out failings that they think they can see in WA and McGowan.
He conveniently forgets to mention that NSW handles the majority of both, yet seems content for everyone to reap the benefits of it... |
I think people are just frustrated with the whole Covid issue and want it to be over. I think everyone will pull their heads in as NSW deteriorates and has the entire nations undivided attention.
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Correct - as the agreement allows. Actually at Phase C, post 80% vaccination it says:"Exempt vaccinated residents from all domestic restrictions..." - happy to be corrected but I assumed this meant domestic travel restrictions. |
Originally Posted by KRviator
(Post 11101028)
Okay, we'll us your words if it'll make you happy...But, do tell the rest of us, just how McGowan plans on actually getting "minimal or no" Covid in WA?
Isn't "No Covid" (Your words...) the same as "Zero Covid"? Reading far too much into it it could even be a comment about the “Disease” of Covid-19, rather than case numbers of the virus. And having “minimal” Covid may mean minimising the amount of disease affecting the health system. But I think that’s reading too much into it and honestly at this stage we’re reading too much into any comments about what’s going to happen post Phase A. "Obviously, if we get cases in here certainly we will have to deal with it but we're doing everything we can to keep it out." “(Zero COVID) is now the accepted position, There’s some info out there saying that going from Phase C to D would only be a matter of weeks. |
Originally Posted by goodonyamate
(Post 11100972)
and there’s the problem. The fool is so focussed on political posturing. If federal labor were in, there’s no way he’d be such a recalcitrant prick. Each way albo even says he supports the reopening plan. Mcgoose will just change the ‘best health advice’ to suit his political agenda.
you don’t need to be clear. You will have as much say in what happens with the borders as I do. |
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