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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Joker89 1st Mar 2021 07:58


Originally Posted by McLimit (Post 10999496)
Holy snapping duckshit :eek: meanwhile, there's a death in Australia every 3 minutes and 13 seconds but..............Nobody cares unless the covid boogey man gets a boomer.

haha, ainít that the truth

Icarus2001 1st Mar 2021 08:21

If you die WITH Covid it appears to be recorded as a Covid death. Apparently being hit by a bus is a result of the virus.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/cli...pre-existing-c

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/death-...ause-of-death/


Foxxster 1st Mar 2021 21:43


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10999494)
Still ridiculous? 14 cases and counting

yep, but there might be more. They need to anally probe people as it is more accurate. The nasal probe gives more false negatives apparently. All together now, bend over and spread em.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-citizens.html

itsnotthatbloodyhard 1st Mar 2021 22:00


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 10999539)
If you die WITH Covid it appears to be recorded as a Covid death. Apparently being hit by a bus is a result of the virus.

/

Except that isnít what your linked articles are saying. If Covid isnít either a contributory or underlying cause, then it isnít (or at least shouldnít be) recorded as a Covid death. As I understand it, it basically comes down to a question of Ďwould this person still be alive if they didnít have Covid-19?í Someone who is flattened by a bus while they have Covid is not considered to have died from from Covid..

Foxxster 1st Mar 2021 22:11


Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard (Post 11000032)
Except that isnít what your linked articles are saying. If Covid isnít either a contributory or underlying cause, then it isnít (or at least shouldnít be) recorded as a Covid death. As I understand it, it basically comes down to a question of Ďwould this person still be alive if they didnít have Covid-19?í Someone who is flattened by a bus while they have Covid is not considered to have died from from Covid..


seem to have a problem in the UK. The actual quantity unknown, could be a few, might be a lot.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-victims.html

dr dre 1st Mar 2021 23:23


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11000035)
seem to have a problem in the UK. The actual quantity unknown, could be a few, might be a lot.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-victims.html

Címon Daily Mail? Quoting anonymous funeral directors (no formal qualifications needed) and anonymous unqualified family members who donít want to accept their relations died of Covid for some reason?

We have factual evidence the pandemic is causing more death than usual, and thatís due the much higher excess death figures in every country affected by it. Itís the overwhelmed ICUs now with an increasingly younger cohort, the health staff running out of oxygen, important surgery being cancelled, ambulances told to not transport patients due to full hospitals, frontline health workers describing the conditions are the worst theyíve ever seen, the mass graves, etc

I know a lot of pilots want to believe medical experts are idiots and got it wrong (or are liars in some grand conspiracy). The facts arenít with you. There is a serious pandemic, measures had to be taken and it caused negative effects to the aviation industry.

Icarus2001 2nd Mar 2021 00:28

There is no doubt Covid is killing people in significant numbers. The fatality rate somewhere between 2% and 3%.

I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist but I know that if there is an incentive to pad the figures then it will happen.

Reading your post, you are certainly correct about the "excess death rate" being a useful measure. I did wonder though about these...


important surgery being cancelled
which would no doubt lead to people dying who could, with surgery, have survived...


ambulances told to not transport patients due to full hospitals
again that would mean people who would normally be admitted and treated being turned away.

So not all the excess deaths are due to Covid directly, some are no doubt as a result indirectly as they were not treated or even admitted to hospital. Also the numbers of people avoiding presenting at a doctor or hospital with symptoms (not Covid) because they do not wish to be a burden on the NHS.


frontline health workers describing the conditions are the worst they’ve ever seen, the mass graves, etc
Mass graves in the UK? Really? Where?


Icarus2001 2nd Mar 2021 00:37

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/e...S&region=World

This is an interesting graph of excess deaths. Its shows that for short periods in the UK summer the excess death rate was NEGATIVE. Meaning less people were dying than the usual average.

Fonz121 2nd Mar 2021 00:45

Half of the expected doses given in first week. Itís not like they havenít had time to plan this. Useless twats.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-.../13197518?nw=0

cynphil 2nd Mar 2021 01:24

I expect in Australia the timeline will be pushed out past the planned end of Oct 2021 for all who want the jab....how far out, is anyone’s guess! And this may have some effect on international, unfortunately.

dr dre 2nd Mar 2021 01:32


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11000089)
So not all the excess deaths are due to Covid directly, some are no doubt as a result indirectly as they were not treated or even admitted to hospital. Also the numbers of people avoiding presenting at a doctor or hospital with symptoms (not Covid) because they do not wish to be a burden on the NHS.

Mass graves in the UK? Really? Where?

Those excess deaths wouldnít have occurred had the beds not be filled up by Covid patients, had ambulances not been otherwise occupied etc. So directly or indirectly it was the pandemic which caused that excess death.

Mass graves were dug in the United States and Brazil, morgues were overfilled in Italy and Spain, amongst others.

Icarus2001 2nd Mar 2021 01:39

Check my maths...

Assuming 20,000,000 people to vaccinate, over eight months, March to October...

That requires 2,500,000 people per month to be vaccinated.

Assuming thirty days in a month, that requires 83,333 people PER DAY to be vaccinated.

OR

March to October is 245 days. 20,000,000 people into 245 days requires 81,632 PER DAY vaccinated.

Perhaps 20,000,000 is too ambitious?

dr dre 2nd Mar 2021 02:28


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11000108)
Check my maths...

Assuming 20,000,000 people to vaccinate, over eight months, March to October...

That requires 2,500,000 people per month to be vaccinated.

Assuming thirty days in a month, that requires 83,333 people PER DAY to be vaccinated.

OR

March to October is 245 days. 20,000,000 people into 245 days requires 81,632 PER DAY vaccinated.

Perhaps 20,000,000 is too ambitious?

The Pfizer vaccine needs special storage, transport and staff, but other vaccines like AZ can be transported and injected by GPs and pharmacists like a flu vaccine.

At the moment thereís less than a dozen vaccination sites in each state for Pfizer, as opposed to hundreds of GP clinics and Pharmacies that will be available when the more easily distributed vaccines come on line. So the rate of vaccination will shoot right up.

The UK has triple the population and is vaccinating up to 400,000 per day. So Australia could get up 130,000 per day for the same rate and according to that math would only need 80,000 per day to reach the October target.

So itís easily achievable, and for most Australians who are located in major urban centres should get access within months. The later time frame will be to get the vaccine to more remote communities I would say.

Icarus2001 2nd Mar 2021 02:37

Pharmacies? Will they be able to provide the injection? Only with a nurse on staff surely?

dr dre 2nd Mar 2021 03:14


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11000134)
Pharmacies? Will they be able to provide the injection? Only with a nurse on staff surely?

Nope. Most pharmacists can give a flu vaccine (and a whole host of other shots). No nurse required.

Pharmacies and GPs to participate in coronavirus vaccine rollout from phase 2a - ABC News

Foxxster 2nd Mar 2021 03:37


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11000069)
Címon Daily Mail? Quoting anonymous funeral directors (no formal qualifications needed) and anonymous unqualified family members who donít want to accept their relations died of Covid for some reason?

We have factual evidence the pandemic is causing more death than usual, and thatís due the much higher excess death figures in every country affected by it. Itís the overwhelmed ICUs now with an increasingly younger cohort, the health staff running out of oxygen, important surgery being cancelled, ambulances told to not transport patients due to full hospitals, frontline health workers describing the conditions are the worst theyíve ever seen, the mass graves, etc

I know a lot of pilots want to believe medical experts are idiots and got it wrong (or are liars in some grand conspiracy). The facts arenít with you. There is a serious pandemic, measures had to be taken and it caused negative effects to the aviation industry.

​​​​​​

come on, dismissing something solely because you donít like the source.

so did this happen or not. I guess not simply because it was reported in the Daily Mail.

Layla Moran, the Liberal Democrat MP who chairs the all-party parliamentary group on coronavirus, said: ĎThe Government should call a public inquiry into the handling of the pandemic immediately with an interim investigation into all Covid deaths that should report as soon as possible

did this happen. I guess not solely because it was reported in the Daily Mail. Notice the quotes in both extracts.


Tory MP Paul Bristow, a member of the Commons health committee, said: ĎItís almost certain that a number of deaths have been wrongly attributed to Covid-19.

ĎNot only has this skewed figures when data has been so important in deciding how we respond to the pandemic, it has caused distress and anxiety for relatives.

ĎWhether we have received the most appropriate figures should definitely be considered in any future inquiry

Did Clare really say this. Obviously not as it was reported in the Daily Mail.

Professor Clare Gerada, former chairman of the Royal College of GPs, said: ĎWhen this all comes out in the wash, we will find out we have over-recorded Covid-19 as a cause of death.í


we get it you donít like the Daily Mail and therefore EVERYTHING reported in it is completely false. As I said in my previous post, the amount of over reporting may be a little or maybe a lot but what is certain is that it appears there has been some.... despite your ridiculous dismissal of the article.


dr dre 2nd Mar 2021 04:22

The way experts count the actual toll of a pandemic is excess mortality.

Every verified data source puts it much higher than in previous years:

An additional 104,520 people have died since March 2020 across the UK. Since the onset of the pandemic there have been six deaths for every five people who would be expected to die in an average year.

Excess deaths are fatalities above the five-year average and are seen as the gold standard in interpreting how many people have died as a result of the pandemic.

UK's excess death toll since start of Covid pandemic passes 100,000

Comparing that to the recorded 96,000 COVID deaths in the UK to around that time and the figures are similar enough to match.

Wondering whether or not some (and it would be a very small percentage) of recorded Covid deaths in the UK were classified incorrectly does not invalidate the health response to the pandemic.

minigundiplomat 2nd Mar 2021 05:08

The UK records every death within 28 days of a positive COVID test as a COVID death, regardless of whether they died on a ventilator or under a train.


People die, it is the one undisputed fact of life. You can move statistics around, call it excess deaths or anything you like, but none of us are staying around forever, and I am not sure when we, as a society, became so arrogant that we felt natures laws no longer apply to us. The medical profession need to rebalance their view of risk, or hand control back to politicians, but either way people will still die every year.

I know someone who died in a Melbourne care home from COVID, so I dispute neither its existence or virulence; but the individual was late 80's, morbidly obese, with alzheimers and emphysemia. Was the cause of death COVID? or was COVID a contributory factor in the same way that pneumonia is classified?

There is now a Brazilian strain - this sh1t is going to roll on for years. Its time we learned to live with it before the cancelled surgeries, undiagnosed cancers and mental health issues eclipse a virus with a 1.9% mortality rate.

dr dre 2nd Mar 2021 05:20


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 11000162)
The medical profession need to rebalance their view of risk, or hand control back to politicians, but either way people will still die every year.

If the medical profession were secretly controlling politicians then weíd have bans on things like Tobacco, Alcohol advertising, Trans Fats, junior contact sports etc.

In reality we had a dangerous virus spread uncontrolled outside of Australia for a year before a vaccine was available. It is the vaccine that will ensure we can manage this risk to an acceptable level. That way the pandemic subsides and we manage it like a respiratory illness. Future variants are managed with different targeted seasonal vaccines, like influenza.

So yes this is how we are ďlearning to live with thisĒ

lc_461 2nd Mar 2021 06:53


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11000108)
Check my maths...

Assuming 20,000,000 people to vaccinate, over eight months, March to October...

That requires 2,500,000 people per month to be vaccinated.

Assuming thirty days in a month, that requires 83,333 people PER DAY to be vaccinated.

OR

March to October is 245 days. 20,000,000 people into 245 days requires 81,632 PER DAY vaccinated.

Perhaps 20,000,000 is too ambitious?

Although the numbers sound high, in the pre-Christmas rush as a country I think COVID testing eclipsed 100K per day. The physical testing and vaccination process takes about the same amount of time.


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