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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

dr dre 25th Feb 2021 11:32


Originally Posted by Angle of Attack (Post 10997353)
Never heard of Valium, well Iíve heard of it but never taken it. Pfizer, AstraZeneca and presumably Moderna Vaccines have shown 100% efficacy in preventing serious disease and hospitalisation with COVID19. Now with a vaccinated population that pretty much makes Covid19 less dangerous than the common flu. In a good year high hundreds die in a bad year high thousands die from flu in Aus, Is McClown still going to close the borders if there is an outbreak of COVID? I think this is the question going into the future, politicians have made out this COVID is like AIDS times 10 when it isnít. Shut the borders for Flu? Because the Flu was pretty much non existent last year it will come back with vengeance this year or next.

Well youíve mostly answered your own question. There is a difference between a virus spreading unchecked through a naive population vs an immunised one. Thatís what the health advice is based on. Just need the required number of vaccinations first.

So if Premiers are just going to keep borders closed forever then why are they all signing up to the National Vaccine strategy? Bit of a costly exercise if nothing will change huh?

There is a difference now between Covid and influenza, given there is a vaccine to the flu and a level of immunity in the population. The whole point of the vaccine program is to make Covid like the flu. Because there was a larger uptake of the flu vax last year (from about 20 to 70%) this caused the flu season to be substantially less (along with hand sanitising, awareness of illness and more isolation).

You wonít get any information right now from any government about a change to border policy because they have more pressing issues to deal with, although theyíre now starting to be discussed at a higher level at national cabinet.

The WA Health Minister was asked about a change to border and quarantine policy on local radio recently and said the vaccinations will change the requirements around quarantine at some point in the future, but that will come after sorting out distribution and supply of the vaccine, and encouraging people to take it.

McLimit 25th Feb 2021 12:58

Yeah/nah, he'll close it for one case. One thing we've learn't from this is that epidemiologists have now become god and other medical doctors are unheard.

WingNut60 25th Feb 2021 13:53


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 10997362)
I meant the fed gov is not responsible for rogue Drs. This Dr would of know they were not qualified.

The federal government appointed a contractor to perform a critical function that included ensuring that their representatives were properly trained and accredited to perform those critical tasks.
They failed to do that.

That is why Hunt is looking for heads to chop off while simultaneously diving for cover.

Much like the castigation that Daniel Andrews has been subject to for appointing incompetent security contractors.

Foxxster 26th Feb 2021 02:34


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10997487)
The federal government appointed a contractor to perform a critical function that included ensuring that their representatives were properly trained and accredited to perform those critical tasks.
They failed to do that.

That is why Hunt is looking for heads to chop off while simultaneously diving for cover.

Much like the castigation that Daniel Andrews has been subject to for appointing incompetent security contractors.

yes partly true. But you forgot the bit about Andrews being offered help by the commonwealth government in relation to hotel quarantine and him refusing it on more than one occasion and then blatantly lying about it despite emails proving it.

as a general point though, while aged care is a federal responsibility the vaccine rollout should really be a state responsibility as they are the ones who employ the doctors and nurses en masse in hospitals. The federal government is not equipped or practiced in delivering this kind of service.

minigundiplomat 26th Feb 2021 03:38


Because there was a larger uptake of the flu vax last year (from about 20 to 70%) this caused the flu season to be substantially less
You're saying that with a straight face?

dr dre 26th Feb 2021 05:53


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 10997867)
You're saying that with a straight face?

Yep, one study here showing a 27% flu vaccine uptake in Australia in 2017. And although the data is still being processed the 2020 flu vaccine uptake is certainly substantially more, from an estimated 60% to approximately 70% uptake.

If we could get those numbers with the totally free Covid vax this industry would be back on track.

WingNut60 26th Feb 2021 09:49


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 10997855)
yes partly true. But you forgot the bit about Andrews being offered help by the commonwealth government in relation to hotel quarantine and him refusing it on more than one occasion and then blatantly lying about it despite emails proving it.

as a general point though, while aged care is a federal responsibility the vaccine rollout should really be a state responsibility as they are the ones who employ the doctors and nurses en masse in hospitals. The federal government is not equipped or practiced in delivering this kind of service.

Not defending Andrews at all. And don't disagree with your assertion that responsibility for the vaccine rollout should be a states responsibility.
But it isn't. It IS a federal responsibility so Mr Hunt needs to come out from under his desk and perhaps explain the selection process that saw the contract going to a company that, within a few days of starting the vaccination operation, made a very serious cock-up of it.

WingNut60 26th Feb 2021 09:55


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10997886)
Yep, one study here showing a 27% flu vaccine uptake in Australia in 2017. And although the data is still being processed the 2020 flu vaccine uptake is certainly substantially more, from an estimated 60% to approximately 70% uptake.

If we could get those numbers with the totally free Covid vax this industry would be back on track.

That is both interesting and surprising.
I am sure that there will be some really interesting analyses come out of this little episode in a year or three.

I had already assumed that the very low flu count in 2020 was mainly the result of social distancing and increased attention to personal hygiene.

Square Bear 26th Feb 2021 10:52


And although the data is still being processed the 2020 flu vaccine uptake is certainly substantially more, from an estimated 60% to approximately 70% uptake.
Haven’t found a source that backs your numbers (and not saying they are not there, but) ...however quite an amount of that 2020 uptake could very well be attributed to the fact that those who wished to visit loved ones in aged care we’re required to produce a certificate, or at the very least declare that they had had the “flu shot” prior to moving past the front desk.

For each Care Resident you might find that there were quite a number of “flu shot” recipients who would otherwise not have been injected..

Numbers and percentages are one thing, reasons for uptake are another.

But I have no doubt you have an argument that counters that....(sigh).

601 26th Feb 2021 12:48


But it isn't. It IS a federal responsibility so Mr Hunt needs to come out from under his desk and perhaps explain the selection process that saw the contract going to a company that, within a few days of starting the vaccination operation, made a very serious cock-up of it.
So the next time a pilot stuffs up the CEO is to blame??
I have always said that you can have a s#!t load of rules and regs but it is the nut holding the levers or in this case the needle, who can still stuff up.
It is always someone fault other than the person who actually stuffed up.


WingNut60 26th Feb 2021 13:48


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 10998118)
So the next time a pilot stuffs up the CEO is to blame??
I have always said that you can have a s#!t load of rules and regs but it is the nut holding the levers or in this case the needle, who can still stuff up.
It is always someone fault other than the person who actually stuffed up.

But that is the logic that has been applied to Daniel Andrews for the last 194 pages.
Why would you want to change it in this case?

You know......the buck stops here.

C441 26th Feb 2021 22:32


But that is the logic that has been applied to Daniel Andrews for the last 194 pages.
Why would you want to change it in this case?
From a discussion with those in both events there is a difference. In the Victorian quarantine case, the securing/security of the hotels was contracted out to private operator who were expected to know what to do; that is minimal direction from the relevant authority.
In the case here in Queensland, the contract with the provider did state the requirements and the contractor agreed that they would be met and their staff were qualified. In the end it was basically a case of negligence on the part of the administering doctor. A friend who has been administering the vaccine indicated that it would be arguably incompetent to have administered all four doses from one vial, even if he'd had no more than his normal qualifications. As she said, if he'd followed his normal procedure it would not have happened. A failure to follow SOPs I guess.

WingNut60 26th Feb 2021 22:52


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10998366)
From a discussion with those in both events there is a difference. In the Victorian quarantine case, the securing/security of the hotels was contracted out to private operator who were expected to know what to do; that is minimal direction from the relevant authority.
In the case here in Queensland, the contract with the provider did state the requirements and the contractor agreed that they would be met and their staff were qualified. In the end it was basically a case of negligence on the part of the administering doctor. A friend who has been administering the vaccine indicated that it would be arguably incompetent to have administered all four doses from one vial, even if he'd had no more than his normal qualifications. As she said, if he'd followed his normal procedure it would not have happened. A failure to follow SOPs I guess.

I'm not questioning at all the degree of incompetence of the administering doctor. Even I'd have known not to give the full bottle, that aspect has been covered on TV multiple times.
And ask any nurse, many doctors don't know how to give injections anyway. They so seldom need to do it.

I am just a bit jaded after reading nearly 200 pages of attributing blame for every minor detail to the the person in the highest position THAT THE CONTRIBUTOR DOES NOT LIKE.

wheels_down 27th Feb 2021 11:59

Fox and Co laughing all the way to the bank again, courtesy of the Victorian Labor party.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....25-p575yu.html

Foxxster 27th Feb 2021 21:47


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 10998610)
Fox and Co laughing all the way to the bank again, courtesy of the Victorian Labor party.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....25-p575yu.html


ha. Not only a Labor premier doing the bidding of his billionaire mate but Bill Kelty , ex union official also best mates with the billionaire. And yet Labor and their supporters scream how the Liberals are the party of billionaire mates and interests. And these same Labor supporters are too stupid to realise the big unions sold out workers as did the Labor party ,one and the same, to big business decades ago. We saw that with Bill the pieman Shorten during the union Royal Commission.

and of course people like Simon Bourke federal Labor were regular guests at the billionaire Pratt family ski lodge.

But this article is yet more proof Andrews needs to resign or be forced out.

examples of Labor and unions selling out workers, especially penalty rates, doing the bidding of big business.

Both Coles and the Shop, Distributive & Allied Employees Association (SDA) had fought for years to keep the previous deal which paid tens of thousands of workers less than the minimum rates of the award, the basic wages safety net.

The old deal slashed - or did not pay at all - penalty rates and other entitlements in exchange for modest increases in hourly pay.The SDA is well known for its conservative social positions whether on abortion, euthanasia and for many years on same sex marriage.

It is the largest affiliate of the ALP and has substantial political sway in Labor and the ACTU.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/work...wwo.htmlBurger

giant McDonald's is underpaying its Australian workers tens of millions of dollars a year under a cosy deal struck with Labor's largest union affiliate that excludes weekend penalty rates.

A Fairfax Media investigation has found the Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees Association (SDA) negotiated a 2013 agreement under which some McDonald's employees are paid nearly one-third less than the award – the minimum pay and conditions safety net.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/work...18-goycw5.html

DirectAnywhere 28th Feb 2021 03:54

There was an article on The Australian online today regarding an extension to Jobkeeper for the aviation sector (behind paywall). I can't find it now. It looks like it might be happening but perhaps the strategic leak from the Treasurer's office was a little too early and the article's been pulled until it can be more opportunely leaked/ announced.

Foxxster 28th Feb 2021 04:02


Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere (Post 10998908)
There was an article on The Australian online today regarding an extension to Jobkeeper for the aviation sector (behind paywall). I can't find it now. It looks like it might be happening but perhaps the strategic leak from the Treasurer's office was a little too early and the article's been pulled until it can be more opportunely leaked/ announced.

https://www.newcastlestar.com.au/sto...ation-support/


Joker89 28th Feb 2021 23:46


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 10998830)
ha. Not only a Labor premier doing the bidding of his billionaire mate but Bill Kelty , ex union official also best mates with the billionaire. And yet Labor and their supporters scream how the Liberals are the party of billionaire mates and interests. And these same Labor supporters are too stupid to realise the big unions sold out workers as did the Labor party ,one and the same, to big business decades ago. We saw that with Bill the pieman Shorten during the union Royal Commission.

and of course people like Simon Bourke federal Labor were regular guests at the billionaire Pratt family ski lodge.

But this article is yet more proof Andrews needs to resign or be forced out.

same deal happening in QLd with a toowoomba Quarantine center at well camp

jrfsp 1st Mar 2021 06:24


Originally Posted by Angle of Attack (Post 10996837)
Public uproar? Iíll tell you a little secret buddy, every single outbreak since a year ago has been linked to shitty hotel quarantine. The only interstate infection was to NSW while VIC was having hundreds of cases per day.
Let that sink in for a while, while you are dreaming, unrestricted domestic travel will get destroyed just when it seems itís all ok, Iíll give it another 2 years until they sort it. 2 more cases in managed isolation in Auckland? You have to be shitting me, this is ridiculous.

Still ridiculous? 14 cases and counting

McLimit 1st Mar 2021 06:30


Still ridiculous? 14 cases and counting
Holy snapping duckshit :eek: meanwhile, there's a death in Australia every 3 minutes and 13 seconds but..............Nobody cares unless the covid boogey man gets a boomer.


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