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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

neville_nobody 8th Jan 2021 03:28

How long can the airlines hang on for? This madness can't go on all year. They don't have unlimited money like the State Governments seem to have.
Maybe it will take a major bankruptcy with people in their thousands unemployed for the States to get a grip on reality.

Servo 8th Jan 2021 03:30


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 10962961)
How long can the airlines hang on for? This madness can't go on all year. They don't have unlimited money like the State Governments seem to have.
Maybe it will take a major bankruptcy with people in their thousands unemployed for the States to get a grip on reality.

You mean like Virgin..................... nothing changed. In fact I am now a LOT closer to losing the house. Bank is starting to get antsy. Thanks Premiers, love your work /s

myshoutcaptain 8th Jan 2021 03:35

Marks precious Pilbara is about to take a gigantic hit. Most VA QF WA based pilots are now in isolation. East coast bases canít do internal WA. Grab your popcorn ... great job McGowan

ps lucky the hard border kept us safe

SOPS 8th Jan 2021 03:42


Originally Posted by myshoutcaptain (Post 10962964)
Marks precious Pilbara is about to take a gigantic hit. Most VA QF WA based pilots are now in isolation. East coast bases canít do internal WA. Grab your popcorn ... great job McGowan

ps lucky the hard border kept us safe

Ok.. I will bite. Why are most VA WA based pilots in isolation? And there are more airlines than VA doing internal WA flights.

neville_nobody 8th Jan 2021 03:42


You mean like Virgin..................... nothing changed.
I meant all airlines. Noone is immune if this continues for another year. The Federal government may dole out some more money to keep people on the payroll but will they want to keep propping up all the Labor controlled States? The execution between the Libs in NSW and everyone else has been polar opposite.

Dannyboy39 8th Jan 2021 03:58

Brisbane going into a three day snap lockdown for the sake of ONE known case. Ridiculous.

(1) Why 3 days when the incubation period is around 5 days on average but up to 14 days.
(2) Its supposedly the ďsuper CovidĒ U.K. strain - how did it get in if the borders have been all but shut for a year? Clearly a lot of countries are not flung enough genomic testing - the genie is well and truly out of the bottle.
(3) Isnít this proving that all out elimination isnít working?

SOPS 8th Jan 2021 04:04


Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 (Post 10962972)
Brisbane going into a three day snap lockdown for the sake of ONE known case. Ridiculous.

(1) Why 3 days when the incubation period is around 5 days on average but up to 14 days.
(2) Its supposedly the ďsuper CovidĒ U.K. strain - how did it get in if the borders have been all but shut for a year? Clearly a lot of countries are not flung enough genomic testing - the genie is well and truly out of the bottle.
(3) Isnít this proving that all out elimination isnít working?

It came in through a Quarantine Hotel. It is time to either shut the border completely or put International arrivals out in the desert.

Global Aviator 8th Jan 2021 04:13


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10962974)
It came in through a Quarantine Hotel. It is time to either shut the border completely or put International arrivals out in the desert.

Or follow the procedures or tweak the procedures and follow. It really baffles me, I have been through hotel Q and I can see no way of transmission if the procedures are followed.

As I said above, ramp up HS to full potential.

Citizens have ever right to continue to come home.

chookcooker 8th Jan 2021 04:55


Originally Posted by Global Aviator (Post 10962976)
Or follow the procedures or tweak the procedures and follow. It really baffles me, I have been through hotel Q and I can see no way of transmission if the procedures are followed.

As I said above, ramp up HS to full potential.

Citizens have ever right to continue to come home.

ahh yes like communism, works in theory. That mentality never hurt anyone.

Global Aviator 8th Jan 2021 05:00

National cabinet just halved arrivals into Aus effectively.

Looks like many here are getting their wishes.

QF starting international in July hey..........

Colonel_Klink 8th Jan 2021 05:04


Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 (Post 10962972)
Brisbane going into a three day snap lockdown for the sake of ONE known case. Ridiculous.

(1) Why 3 days when the incubation period is around 5 days on average but up to 14 days.
(2) Its supposedly the ďsuper CovidĒ U.K. strain - how did it get in if the borders have been all but shut for a year? Clearly a lot of countries are not flung enough genomic testing - the genie is well and truly out of the bottle.
(3) Isnít this proving that all out elimination isnít working?

There was 1 case yesterday (the cleaner with the UK strain of the virus).

There are 9 cases today - and that cleaner has been to a lot of places whilst contagious.

The Virus got in through hotel quarantine.

Elimination would have worked - but for some reason we are still bringing in overseas travellers to hotel quarantine into the middle of our most populated cities. It defies any logic that this is still occurring after what happened in Victoria.

Itís up to the federal government to step up and set up inbound quarantine in remote parts of the country. This would cost a significant amount of money - but significantly less than the cost of the damage that is being done through opening and closing of the borders.


brokenagain 8th Jan 2021 05:14


are 9 cases today - and that cleaner has been to a lot of places whilst contagious.
All in hotel quarantine.

wheels_down 8th Jan 2021 05:24


Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink (Post 10962982)
There was 1 case yesterday (the cleaner with the UK strain of the virus).

There are 9 cases today - and that cleaner has been to a lot of places whilst contagious.

The Virus got in through hotel quarantine.

Elimination would have worked - but for some reason we are still bringing in overseas travellers to hotel quarantine into the middle of our most populated cities. It defies any logic that this is still occurring after what happened in Victoria.

Itís up to the federal government to step up and set up inbound quarantine in remote parts of the country. This would cost a significant amount of money - but significantly less than the cost of the damage that is being done through opening and closing of the borders.

What about crews operating cargo only missions? We canít turn the air cargo corridor off. These guys especially from the US are still clearly high risk, but is the risk worth it compared to turning the tap off cargo?m

Qatar and Emirates said they cannot fly into remote areas, very complex and not viable. They wonít be coming. The cargo from around the globe needs to keep flowing in somehow. QF is about as useless as Virgin when it comes to International freight capability.

dr dre 8th Jan 2021 05:34


Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 (Post 10962972)
Brisbane going into a three day snap lockdown for the sake of ONE known case. Ridiculous.

(1) Why 3 days when the incubation period is around 5 days on average but up to 14 days.
(2) Its supposedly the ďsuper CovidĒ U.K. strain - how did it get in if the borders have been all but shut for a year? Clearly a lot of countries are not flung enough genomic testing - the genie is well and truly out of the bottle.
(3) Isnít this proving that all out elimination isnít working?

1. The 3 day lockdown is to make contact tracing, easier, to limit the amount of exponential spread and better track any movements of close contacts.

2. itís not ďsupposedlyĒ the UK strain, it has undergone genetic testing and has been confirmed as the new strain. For a detailed explanation about why this new strain can have a much greater effect on the populace and why all states and the federal government are being very serious about todayís situation hereís a good explainer:

A top scientist explains why a more infectious coronavirus variant is a bigger problem than a deadlier strain

How did it get in? Easy. The carrier flew in on an international flight and infected a hotel worker whilst quarantining.

3. No, it proves bring in people from infectious countries and housing them in the middle of cities isnít working. Some improvements have been made today (mandatory masks on flights, preflight testing before boarding a flight to Australia, a reduced cap on arrivals) but the ultimate solution (quarantining arrivals in remote locations) is not being taken.

Maybe theyíve decided to accelerate the vaccine rollout to establish a basic herd immunity within the next few months and itís not worth setting up remote isolation facilities for that time?

dr dre 8th Jan 2021 05:36


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 10962987)
Qatar and Emirates said they cannot fly into remote areas, very complex and not viable. They wonít be coming. The cargo from around the globe needs to keep flowing in somehow. QF is about as useless as Virgin when it comes to International freight capability.

Thatís why we have Australian airlines with hundreds of stood down pilots and cabin crew whoís knowledge and experience of flying to remote airports in Australia could be used to solve this situation, if our government decided to do something in the national interest for once.

Sunfish 8th Jan 2021 06:00

The logical solution is to treat all international flight crew and pax as infected, period.

We could test but even if the tests were accurate to the three sigma limit - 99.5% - which they aren't, that means one positive escaping from 20 -30 crews, which is unacceptable.

nope, full quarantine. We provide self contained accommodation for the crews. Deep clean when they leave.

KRviator 8th Jan 2021 06:10

It doesn't matter one iota what the arrivals cap is, when you have more people leaving than are coming home! I highly doubt that all those departing passengers will stay gone, so at some point, they will themselves want to run the gauntlet of the arrivals system. The whole "26,000 citizens to come home by Christmas" or whatever figure they give on any particular day is meaningless if they don't stop people leaving who will want to come home at some point, meaning the cycle is an endless loop.

The simple solution is to stop all international passenger arrivals. No if's, buts or maybes. IT's not exactly a politically acceptable response, but if we want Australia to reopen, it isn't going to happen while we still have hotel quarantine in place.

If it got out once, you could say its' bad luck. Twice is bad management. Multiple times across multiple states, then they aren't all incompetent. I just wish it would have happened in WA!


Originally Posted by The ABC
About twice as many people are still flying out of Australia despite COVID-19 travel restrictions, compared to the number of passengers who are managing to secure flights back home.

An ABC analysis of the latest government data reveals that in 2020, outbound passenger movements continued to outpace arrivals, in some months by a factor of three to one. It is unclear how many of the departing passengers held Australian passports, but it is feared more pressure will be placed on hotel quarantine arrangements when some eventually decide to return.

Almost 40,000 Australians stranded overseas have registered with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade as wanting to come home but have so far been unable to secure return flights. "The list is growing with more and more Australians leaving the country," warned Australian Airports Association CEO James Goodwin. "Three people are leaving for every one person returning and that is putting added pressure on the hotel quarantine system and for all those other stranded Australians who are desperate to come home."

Since March 25 last year, Australians have been banned from leaving the country unless they receive a formal exemption from the Australian Border Force Commissioner for reasons such as compassionate grounds. On March 20, the Federal Government also banned people who were not citizens or permanent residents from being allowed to enter Australia unless they met limited travel exemptions.

According to figures produced by the Bureau of Infrastructure and Transport Research Economics, more than 46,000 people flew out of Australia in August last year, while just over 15,000 arrived.

A similar three-to-one ratio of outgoing passengers compared to incoming passengers was recorded in September, while in October departures almost doubled the number of arrivals into Australia. In April, the month immediately after the international travel ban was announced, 53,000 passengers flew out of Australia compared to just over 16,000 who arrived here.

Mr Goodwin said the Federal Government should now consider using military aircraft and bases to help repatriate and quarantine the thousands of citizens who remain stranded overseas.
Source


spektrum 8th Jan 2021 06:14

Why the F do we have to call it covid-19 or corona virus and not China virus
But it’s fine to call it “UK strain” or South African strain” ?

Paragraph377 8th Jan 2021 06:45


Originally Posted by spektrum (Post 10962998)
Why the F do we have to call it covid-19 or corona virus and not China virus
But itís fine to call it ďUK strainĒ or South African strainĒ ?

Because the Governments are gutless and donít want to upset the Chinese. These a#sholes caused/created/spread this virus so the entire world should stand against them and cut them off completely. I mean seriously, they have infected the entire globe in a way that is killing hundreds of thousands, destroying entire economies and turning the world into one that will be awful for years to come. And what has the global powers done?? SFA. Too scared to act. And an even more pathetic UN that can only say; ďwe are disappointed in you China that you wonít let inspectors inĒ. Itís a joke, an absolute joke.

SOPS 8th Jan 2021 06:53

What he said. 👍👍


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