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-   -   Government Loan to Virgin Australia (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/631164-government-loan-virgin-australia.html)

B772 5th Apr 2020 06:14

It appears any pilots that have been working outside of Aust and released to return home may be in for an extended stay on our shores regardless of who they worked for. One friend at 56 years of age who went to China 4 years ago is concerned he may have operated his last flight.

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 5th Apr 2020 06:35

https://mumbrella.com.au/virgin-aust...n-skies-623773

Full page ads in the paper today.

Brakerider 5th Apr 2020 07:01


Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE (Post 10739981)

What a waste of money. Money that could be better spent paying staff the entitlements they deserve.

Rashid Bacon 5th Apr 2020 07:25

QF does indeed need a challenger - it just may not be Virgin.

Would the Australian government be quietly sounding out with other parties the possibility of another startup if VAH is unable to continue trading.

It's pretty clear at this stage anyway, that there is little appetite for a commercial bailout of a single operator.

Lookleft 5th Apr 2020 07:25

They must be getting desperate They will discover what most of us who work in aviation already know, that the public really don't care about aviation especially at this time when no-one is flying anyway. I once heard the statement "The Australian public will demand their union pilots in the flightdeck" Turned out they couldn't care less then and they will care even less now. .

altocu 5th Apr 2020 07:33

"Danielle Keighery, Virgin Australia’s chief experience officer"...

There's part of the problem right there and not just at VA either.

chookcooker 5th Apr 2020 07:40


Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE (Post 10739981)

wow,
mumbrella.com!!

a news outlet that, on the scale of Wall Street journal to my woolies receipt, sits a lot closer to the latter than the former

Led Zeppelin 5th Apr 2020 07:41

Virgin will not be very high on people’s priorities as they come to terms with massive job losses and a deep recession a real possibility.

What a waste of money.

normanton 5th Apr 2020 08:00

Advertising when there is no flying, and they are short of money. Disaster. They need some administrators in there to save what they can of it.

krismiler 5th Apr 2020 08:06


If your airline survives and you keep your job your contract is not going to change.
You'll simply be handed another contract for your employment with the "new entity" airline which your old one becomes. As fewer pilots will be required employment will probably be offered based on seniority and they will simply move down the list if anyone refuses to sign. Unlike 1989, there won't be many opportunities available overseas, in fact Australian pilots will be forced to return home instead as foreign employers look after their own citizens first.


Pilot wages and conditions in this part of the world have rarely been dictated by supply and demand.
Wages have been kept high by the unions who will have little ability to dictate terms if airlines are nationalised under an emergency rescue plan. Public sympathy won't be forthcoming for "over paid bus drivers who only work twenty hours a week" when millions will be living hand to mouth on welfare. Realistically, if and when we return to work I wouldn't expect to be pulling in much more than about 75% of my previous income for quite a long time.

Major cost cutting will be the order of the day in all sectors of the economy, long haul flights and premium cabins will be the most affected for the airlines. There could be a possibility of Jetstar/Scoot B787s completely replacing the parent company's aircraft on certain routes which become unviable for the full service product, however at the moment you're far more secure on an A320/B737 which are much easier to fill and cost less to operate. Today's generation of narrow bodies are far more capable than those of previous years and could replace A330/B787s on many routes if the pax numbers aren't there. Airlines such as CX and SIA which are geared towards the premium end of the market will need to slash costs in a new era were price rather than service will be the deciding factor when buying a ticket.

The GA sector has been decimated so even a C402 job won't be an option.

SOPS 5th Apr 2020 08:08

I’m starting to smell desperation.

TimmyTee 5th Apr 2020 08:17


Originally Posted by longjohn (Post 10739859)
With due respect, bias, so long as its recognised, does not invalidate an argument.

Hahahaha, really?
Alright, hands up if you are a Qantas driver/employee!

Rashid Bacon 5th Apr 2020 08:34

Maybe the Chief Experience Officer needs to get a bit more experience before committing to such an expensive advertising flop. What a meaningless title.

Yes - Part of the problem at Virgin and elsewhere

2020Balance 5th Apr 2020 08:48

Only after they have paid us at tiger and VAINZ our redundancies. PS, SA, MF and all those top end bottom feeding grubs can line up behind the rest of us on the dole queue.

B772 5th Apr 2020 09:09

Paying for advertising to sway a decision is just a waste of money and effort. Another example of either the Virgin mindset or lack of business acumen by Paul Scurrah.

Paragraph377 5th Apr 2020 09:13


Originally Posted by Rashid Bacon (Post 10740059)
Maybe the Chief Experience Officer needs to get a bit more experience before committing to such an expensive advertising flop. What a meaningless title.

Yes - Part of the problem at Virgin and elsewhere

Almost as stupid as the title ‘specialist’. Safety specialist, Training specialist, Market, Brand and Research specialist, Alliance specialist and so the nauseating list went on.......
What a load of fluffy wank and one of the reason they were in the shit financially - too many overrated, unnecessary or excess positions that did SFA. The Viallge Idiots and executive tossers fostered this stupid culture where mates were rewarded with ‘specialist’ roles and titles and paid to do jobs that were not necessary for the organisation. Far too many layers at VA.




Rabbitwear 5th Apr 2020 09:34

I think Air NZ will step into domestic Australia as they will have idle Aircraft and crew ready to go especially whilst International is off limits.

Ragnor 5th Apr 2020 09:38


Originally Posted by Rabbitwear (Post 10740098)
I think Air NZ will step into domestic Australia as they will have idle Aircraft and crew ready to go especially whilst International is off limits.

Air NZ are looking at redundancy already, don’t think OZ domestic is in their sights yet! If we are not back flying by June, Australia could very well be served by QF and JQ domestically for a while.

neville_nobody 5th Apr 2020 09:47


Wages have been kept high by the unions who will have little ability to dictate terms if airlines are nationalised under an emergency rescue plan. Public sympathy won't be forthcoming for "over paid bus drivers who only work twenty hours a week" when millions will be living hand to mouth on welfare. Realistically, if and when we return to work I wouldn't expect to be pulling in much more than about 75% of my previous income for quite a long time.
I'd argue that Unions have actually kept wages down in this country through the seniority system. If you had a true theoretical open market on pilot's labour (which includes no collusion between airlines, or backroom deals between Regionals and major airlines) in the last 10 years then you would have had much higher salaries at Virgin and Jetstar and Rex. The fact that people were going overseas and doubling to tripling their salaries would indicate where the real market was at. Not to mention people moving to the USA to fly for Regionals.

However now without Union interference you would also have a much lower average salary. Especially so if VA go broke then you will have all the ex VA pilots, all the returned expats competing for very few jobs. I would argue that pilot unions have probably dampened the swings in the pure open market salary rather than increased them

markontop 5th Apr 2020 09:49

There you go playing with other people’s money.
Virgin flare!
How’s that turnaround restructure working - children?


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