PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
-   -   Government Loan to Virgin Australia (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/631164-government-loan-virgin-australia.html)

LostWanderer 14th May 2020 07:54


Originally Posted by chookcooker (Post 10782044)
Meanwhile IATA thinks international travel to recover in 2023

https://amp.news.com.au/travel/trave...fc5fa0b325b073

itís well accepted domestic to recover much sooner.

the article referring to CAPA predictions for second half 2020 is ridiculous. Pretty sure every interested party is thinking slightly longer term than this year.

2023 would be great, Iíve seen estimates ranging from December this year through 2027 by experts now.

Youíre right that any buyer would be looking longer term, I guess it depends how much money they bring to the table with them and how long they can hold out til things get better someday, whenever that may be. I still think these administrators from all accounts are selling a farcically impossible dream and according to a few articles now, buyers appear to be catching on to the game.

junior.VH-LFA 14th May 2020 08:10

Genuine question, can someone please explain to me how any business in administration is able to make demands on potential mew owners/investors about how they should run said business? I know it's not the same by a long shot but it feels like buying a train set and being told when and how you can use it.

chookcooker 14th May 2020 08:13


Originally Posted by LostWanderer (Post 10782056)
2023 would be great, Iíve seen estimates ranging from December this year through 2027 by experts now.

Youíre right that any buyer would be looking longer term, I guess it depends how much money they bring to the table with them and how long they can hold out til things get better someday, whenever that may be. I still think these administrators from all accounts are selling a farcically impossible dream and according to a few articles now, buyers appear to be catching on to the game.

got any links to experts predicting up to 2027?

ozbiggles 14th May 2020 08:39

I think LFA what is happening is the media are making up inch columns with anonymous sources and half truths. Virgin always had a plan to consolidate their wide body fleet, they have already retrenched a thousand pilots and cabin crew and I think it was 750 from the office. It is all old news you can read in Aus Aviation, but never waste a good crisis, this was probably always the plan pre covid but got sped up by a few years. All the stuff I keep seeing is elements of what should/could/:might/won’t happen and what is coming out now is just a mish mash of what was and what was planned and the new reality. The sources the media keep ‘using’ are the usual half wits trying to make them selves relevant in a world where what was in the morning is not what is in the afternoon. VA in its present form can say whatever they had planned going forward, the new owner will make their decisions.

MickG0105 14th May 2020 08:56


Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA (Post 10782078)
Genuine question, can someone please explain to me how any business in administration is able to make demands on potential mew owners/investors about how they should run said business? I know it's not the same by a long shot but it feels like buying a train set and being told when and how you can use it.

The Administrator can lay out whatever provisions and conditions they like in the information memorandum but at the end of the day it's up to the proponents to submit the bid that they want. Without knowing exactly how Deloitte are running the process I'm just speculating but having seen not dissimilar processes run in the past they may have asked for proponents to submit a 'conforming bid' - that is one embracing let's just call it the Scurrah-Strawbridge Delusion - and then provide the option to submit a non-conforming bid as well. The non-conforming bid will be what the proponent wants to acquire and how much they will pay for/how much of the existing debt they will take-on/roll-over.

For all the hoopla about twenty interested parties and sophisticated bidders, it will all be resolved tomorrow when the non-binding bids are submitted. I'd be surprised if there are more than four bids (maybe five) and none of them will be buying into the Delusion.

Lookleft 14th May 2020 09:06

And the stressed out Virgin employee is left in the dark trying to work out what is going on and do they have a job. It was said at the beginning that it was going to be a roller-coaster ride for them and what is being published would be contributing to that. Unfortunately they might be thinking that the meeting tomorrow will provide some certainty but all it will do is provide a lot more uncertainty and no clearer picture as to when their nightmare ends.

Fliegenmong 14th May 2020 11:24

And the stressed out Virgin employee is left in the dark trying to work out what is going on and do they have a job. It was said at the beginning that it was going to be a roller-coaster ride for them and what is being published would be contributing to that. Unfortunately they might be thinking that the meeting tomorrow will provide some certainty but all it will do is provide a lot more uncertainty and no clearer picture as to when their nightmare ends.

Yeah, pretty much that is so I would say Lookleft. .... and for realistic sake...did u think anything else was going to happen?

Lookleft 14th May 2020 12:21

No I didnít think it would be any different. Thankfully I donít work for Virgin but I went through the whole Ansett debacle so I know how it feels. I wish them all the best during what will be a crap time.

Ragnor 15th May 2020 01:44

I was embarrassed for Cam, he clearly does not have a clue what he is getting the QLD people into.

Paragraph377 15th May 2020 02:08


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10782962)
I was embarrassed for Cam, he clearly does not have a clue what he is getting the QLD people into.

He is another dopey Politician who has spent his many years working within the protective Government bubble.. oh $200m, no problem, we can take that from the giant bucket (bucket of cash or bucket of debt, doesnít matter). Wouldnít have a clue. Stick him into a non government Corporation as a CFO and letís see how good he is.I want VA 2 to succeed, but wonít if the Pollies have their hands on it.


normanton 15th May 2020 02:16

Clueless QLD government.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 15th May 2020 22:37


Why not also suggest the lucky buyer purchase a fleet of Saturn V rockets as well. Could launch them next to Movie World
Are you privy to some insider information? Are GST one of the 20?
Pimpama

neville_nobody 16th May 2020 00:55

The issue will be that the Government will do what is best for Queensland or the Labor party not necessarily what's best for the airline. You also lose bargaining power when dealing with interstate operations as the government will want as many jobs as possible in Queensland regardless of cost. So that helps the government at an election but raises the cost base of the airline significantly especially once all the big unions get involved.

SHVC 16th May 2020 06:45

Iím not a business savvy person I truly donít understand administration and how ppl can think all debt be wiped easily and we move on as it was pre covid I would think every big business would do this otherwise.
My question is does Deloitte really have us employees best interests in mind, or, is it best case scenario for them every time they do this.

Bodie1 16th May 2020 07:19

Personally, I think the administrators are doing a fine job. Once the QE money starts making its way though the financial system there wont be any issue with money. The Americans have proved that printing money is not the problem everyone makes it out to be.

Section28- BE 16th May 2020 09:28

SHVC-

Iím not a business savvy person I truly donít understand administration
.......

Shall, NOT buy into the 'Context' as portrayed - however, this link 'may' prove useful to yourself: https://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resou...for-creditors/

Think:

Number and Value
vis: Secured/Unsecured 'Creditors' and have a really great day.

Rgds
S28- BE

Popgun 18th May 2020 11:36


Originally Posted by Blackout (Post 10782926)
When you hear people like Cam, Jayne and Rob as spearheads for the potential front runners within the bidders, something is diabolicaly wrong :

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/...15-p54t8l.html

Whoís Jayne? Oh I see....you mean Carla. 😂🤣🤮

Any of the troops associated with an organisation in which that individual is within whiffing distance of an executive role should expect nothing other than gender politics, self-interest and highly paid yet grossly ineffective chair-warming.

It looks more like a sad search for relevance after the wings were clipped and then the dairy went from fresh to sour!!!

🤮

PG

SOPS 18th May 2020 12:26


Originally Posted by Blackout (Post 10785926)
Is PG against PT?

"Pop-Tarts have a sugary filling sealed inside two layers of thin, rectangular pastry crust. Most varieties are also frosted. Although sold pre-cooked, they are designed to be warmed inside a toaster or microwave oven ..."

Google Davy Barry Pop Tarts.. you will love it!

normanton 19th May 2020 06:37

Copy paste article please for us poor folk.

Ragnor 19th May 2020 06:53

Guess Deloitte optimism early was a little preempt.

‘More cash, please’, says Virgin Australia, as it apparently struggles to keep running

Virgin Australia is understood to have reached out to the federal government on Monday night for emergency funds to keep the airline in operation until the conclusion of the sales process, say sources.

It comes after administrator Deloitte shortlisted four parties on Monday to take through to the second round of a sales process, where final bids are due around June 12.

The hope is to reach a conclusion for a transaction by the end of next month.

However, some in the market believe that the timetable could be overly ambitious and say that with all the stakeholders that need to be consulted, including unions, governments and other creditors, they believe that a sale of Virgin Australia is unlikely to be concluded any time before at least September.

Virgin Australia collapsed last month owing its creditors $6.8bn and fears are mounting that it is running out of cash.

Some say that should Virgin Australia be unable to pay its bills to stay in the air, liquidation might be the only option.

However, it is thought that all parties involved would be resistant to see this outcome.

Qantas has earlier made known that it was expecting a cash burn of $40m a week by June.

Earlier this month, The Australian’s John Durie reported that Virgin administrator Vaughan Strawbridge was borrowing around $200m to help keep operations afloat pending a decision on the sale of the airline.

At that time, it was understood free cash stood at just $30m when Mr Strawbridge was called in.

Now, some say that Virgin Australia has about $100m left in cash, which would likely keep the airline in the air for about two months.

This is with lower fuel costs, leasing payments and the JobKeeper scheme, given that services had been heavily cut back.

One interesting point will be how long Foreign Investment Review Board approval could take following a sale or recapitalisation agreement by one of the suitors.

Typically, approval takes at least 42 days.In terms of a sale, some market experts believe that the amount paid by any suitor would be seen from the approach as to what creditors the buyer chooses to pay to keep certain services operating.

In particular, the aircraft leases.

What changes might come?

Certain routes may be abandoned, yet the Virgin Australia camp has earlier indicated that Deloitte would be eager to see as many jobs preserved as possible.

Government subsidies from states such as Queensland could be offered as an incentive to a buyer, provided that it continues to offer certain services.

In the shortlist to buy the business are BGH Capital, Cyrus Capital Partners, US-based Indigo Partners and Bain Capital.

The approach to government comes after Virgin Australia made a plea to the federal government to secure a loan worth up to $1.4bn to keep the business in operation amid the COVID-19 travel restrictions.

It was a plea which triggered much debate about a government bailout of a commercial carrier that had earlier posted losses.

However, it was later placed in voluntary administration.


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:52.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.