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-   -   Government Loan to Virgin Australia (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/631164-government-loan-virgin-australia.html)

crosscutter 4th Apr 2020 01:35


Originally Posted by Berealgetreal (Post 10738895)
What I can’t get my head around is front line QF staff wishing the failure of friends and former colleagues.

This comment is off the mark. That’s not the topic being discussed. I have friends who have already lost their job. I am deeply saddened and frustrated by it.

It doesn’t mean a fair argument can’t take place around whether a business which has lost money for 7 straight years deserves tax payer support.

I suspect some support will come, but it will allow a Virgin barely recognisable to the one we had.

34R 4th Apr 2020 01:54


Originally Posted by Berealgetreal (Post 10738895)
What I can’t get my head around is front line QF staff wishing the failure of friends and former colleagues.

This view seems very popular among Virgin people at the moment. Not sure why. Perhaps it helps to justify the very hard sympathy line their PR mob are currently taking, with regards to full page adds and massive social media blitzes.

Turnleft080 4th Apr 2020 02:02

If Virgin folds, the primary cause is their own management.
Make sure you put that correctly. Past
management JB.

wheels_down 4th Apr 2020 02:16

The concern is, even if they take a large loan of Canberra, how the heck will they ever get out of their debt situation?

It will take the rest of this decade to get rid all of the debt.

If they file for admin, who picks up the debt? Clearly have no assets to pay for much. It seems a lot of banks and lenders will be in the red but who pays for it?

The Bullwinkle 4th Apr 2020 02:21

For all you "Angels" out there, Virgin was in the process of rectifying the atrocities of the last decade and were making many changes which were taking the company in the right direction.
Now, a "Black Swan" event comes along which threatens not just Virgin but indeed every airline in the world, your beloved QANTAS included, and all you want to do is kick a man when he's down.
I'm sure the Leprechaun is vey proud of your actions but you're actually quite disgusting!

longjohn 4th Apr 2020 02:23

Neither Virgin OR Qantas should be given any more government assistance IMHO. Why should government prop up shareholders?

If Qantas is the last one standing, then so be it. If they price gouge, then by virtue of their margins they invite competition. Government can assist here by guaranteeing gates, slots tax concessions etc. They can also threaten / allow or even assist with cabotage. This was done post AN collapse with the likes of United operating Sydney - Melbourne. Qantas are terrified of cabotage, especially on the international front.

There are times when a monopoly is actually good. Government can regulate to protect consumers and the economy.

If Qantas fails, it will not be the end of the world. Again, foreign carriers can be asked to step up (US Airlines?) at least until such time as a new local airline emerges. No airline is too important to fail. In fact, the list of prominent failures is long.

Ansett’s collapse demonstrated, Australia’s second carrier simply does not feature. In fact, there will be some in Government and opposition actively pushing for a VA collapse. In AN’s case it was the Transport minister and the Prime Ministers Chief of Staff.


SandyPalms 4th Apr 2020 02:26

You know what Bullwinkle. You’re an jerk. And one that’s incapable of reading at that. Good riddance.

The Bullwinkle 4th Apr 2020 02:28


Originally Posted by SandyPalms (Post 10738936)
You know what Bullwinkle. Youíre an jerk. And one thatís incapable of reading at that. Good riddance.

Says it all really.

Toruk Macto 4th Apr 2020 02:32

What happens if Australia comes out of this first . American Airlines might be 6-12 months behind in recovery . Same for Asian countries . Government encourage Australians to holiday domestically . They need a airline industry that is ready to go now ! Not a start up . Not rely on international carriers . For $1.4B you got that airline , no state government subsidies , no airport freebies for the new guy no federal support for a brand new entrant . Just take the covers off and check the oil and kick the tyres and get those holiday makers into domestic resorts , get the country moving again ASAP ?

The Bullwinkle 4th Apr 2020 02:41


no state government subsidies , no airport freebies for the new guy no federal support for a brand new entrant
And no preferential treatment from CASA.

C441 4th Apr 2020 02:46

When Alan Joyce grounded Qantas back whenever, the first person to drop me a note was a Virgin friend who'd been through the dispute, an overseas stint with a very young family and then the collapse of Ansett. It was a kind, considerate thought from someone I've known for years but only catch up with occasionally.

Now once again the airline world is in turmoil and I think you'll find that, apart from a few posters here on Pprune (and on the whole that's not many QF staff), most Qantas people want to see the Virgin staff retain a job and an employer. Many of us have friends & family who are Virgin staff.

​​​​​​​The few on here that openly appear to want to see Virgin collapse are just thatÖÖa few.


Dookie on Drums 4th Apr 2020 03:14


Originally Posted by C441 (Post 10738951)

The few on here that openly appear to want to see Virgin collapse are just thatÖÖa few.

It's not about WANTING to see Virgin collapse. it's just inevitable. Poor management and losses throughout the years. What makes them any different from other companies doing it tough?

The Bullwinkle 4th Apr 2020 03:19


It's not about WANTING to see Virgin collapse.
That's not what I understood from the "Survival of the fittest" comments.
Joyce has an absolute bloodlust for the collapse of Virgin!

Dookie on Drums 4th Apr 2020 03:23


Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle (Post 10738963)
That's not what I understood from the "Survival of the fittest" comments.
Joyce has an absolute bloodlust for the collapse of Virgin!

Well, so what? It still doesn't dismiss the poor management over the years and I was there for it. What exactly would you like AJ or anyone to do?

wondrousbitofrough 4th Apr 2020 03:23


Originally Posted by Dookie on Drums (Post 10738957)
It's not about WANTING to see Virgin collapse. it's just inevitable. Poor management and losses throughout the years. What makes them any different from other companies doing it tough?

I think that most reasonable minded people at VA would see the end result, whatever it may be, as being brought on by BOTH the poor previous financial management of the company AND the current media hatchet job being carried out by the senior management at Q.

I think the majority of people at VA don't bare any ill wishes to the people over at Q

markontop 4th Apr 2020 03:31

And yet VA were the beneficiaries of the hatchet job done by the political arm of QF, Mr Anderson. Not forgetting the internal financial train wreck of AN.

dontgive2FACs 4th Apr 2020 03:32


Originally Posted by Dookie on Drums (Post 10738957)
It's not about WANTING to see Virgin collapse. it's just inevitable. Poor management and losses throughout the years. What makes them any different from other companies doing it tough?

I donít think anyone is intentionally wanting to see Virgin go into administration but yes, sadly perhaps it is inevitable. The cause probably doesnít matter now. Perhaps some decisions would be made differently in hindsight. COVID-19 was most probably the catalyst.

Businesses will come and go with the economic cycle. There will be another carrier step in to replace them. Itís my hope that everyone who loses-out can be re-employed ASAP.

Again, itís not the entity that matters. Itís the airlines employees and their families. Please reach out to your colleagues in the industry to share grief. Donít take it out on your family. In their eyes, youíre a hero. Whether you fly for VA, QF, JQ and whatever Rex is (sorry I donít know), your well-being beats the colour, size or shape of your aeroplane.

all the best.

krismiler 4th Apr 2020 03:33

Any company going under has a knock on effect, you know what happens when the major employer in a small town goes broke, everyone is affected. It’s not just Virgin, it’s their maintenance providers, fuel and catering suppliers, advertising agency, IT system managers, accounts, landlords of their office buildings etc etc etc.

The country will be in survival mode for a long time to come. Vital sectors will need to be preserved to provide the framework to support the recovery. A skeleton critical mass needs to be kept in place to develop around.

There will be very little spare money as tax revenues will plummet and welfare demands will soar.

An airline industry is critical to Australia given its isolation and vast domestic distances. The bankruptcy of Sabena wasn’t critical to Belgium as there were no domestic flights and everywhere was easily accessible by road and rail. International destinations were served by other airlines flying into Belgium or easy connections through a multitude of nearby hubs such as Amsterdam or Paris.

Even the shortest routes of Australia’s economic golden triangle, Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane have no practical alternative to flying and having large areas of the country cut off wouldn’t be acceptable.

My take is that there will be a small and highly conditional bail out of Virgin which would enable it to retain a limited domestic network on critical or previously profitable routes. Employee and fleet numbers will be slashed, international and wide body operations curtailed. Staff will be handed new contracts on a “take it or leave it” basis. The company will revert back to where it was around the time Ansett went under.

Colonel_Klink 4th Apr 2020 03:35


Originally Posted by Dookie on Drums (Post 10738965)
What exactly would you like AJ or anyone to do?

Advocate for an industry wide package (akin to the US) to ensure that both airlines can get through this crisis in the interests of the aviation industry, the tourism industry and the economy more broadly.

Dookie on Drums 4th Apr 2020 03:39


Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink (Post 10738975)
Advocate for an industry wide package (akin to the US) to ensure that both airlines can get through this crisis in the interests of the aviation industry, the tourism industry and the economy more broadly.

How nice. But one company has performed strongly and the other hasn't.


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