PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
-   -   Government Loan to Virgin Australia (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/631164-government-loan-virgin-australia.html)

-41 2nd May 2020 06:15

At least Rex and so on won’t be inconvenienced with another pilot shortage that requires 457 imports.

piston broke again 2nd May 2020 07:37

Pilot EBA's at least, according to Deloitte, will be honoured. I guess thats only in the interim whilst they're at the helm; Once they vacate it will be up to the new owners. In all reality, pilot wages may come down. I'm tipping the 330's will go, 777's may stay for the interim and they will be given back to boeing for a 787 fleet at some stage in the future. Massive discounts to be had for a buyer in the market. There'd be no better time (in recent history) than now to purchase an aircraft or 10.

ozbiggles 2nd May 2020 12:19

Ragnor I think your thoughts on leasing maybe so last month.
in a normal world one company might go into admin....not all of them at once.
There is no market for 2nd hand aircraft or even first hand aircraft. I don’t know how it will play out....other than bad for everyone.

krismiler 2nd May 2020 16:39


What about pilot terms and conditions? Where else can pilots go at this time?
Contracts will be drawn up by the new owners and posted out, if you want to work for the new entity you sign the contract and post it back, simple as that. It will be a few years before the unions will be in a position to engage in enterprise bargaining. Any pilot going back to work within the next two months on 80% or more of their previous package will be envied. It's going to be a long climb back for most of us, QF and a select few may be able to maintain their current T&Cs but the rest of are going to lose out at least in the short term.

Ragnor 2nd May 2020 20:56

How will that pan out for JQ crew, still an expired EBA. I wonder how that first meeting will go when it happens in the distant future.

normanton 2nd May 2020 22:36


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10770788)
How will that pan out for JQ crew, still an expired EBA. I wonder how that first meeting will go when it happens in the distant future.

Well I'm sure AFAP will be agreeing with the 3% group policy now.

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 2nd May 2020 23:24

Well, the ‘why are JQ pilots getting paid less than Tiger’ argument has gone out the window.

Colonel_Klink 3rd May 2020 01:32


Originally Posted by krismiler (Post 10770646)
Contracts will be drawn up by the new owners and posted out, if you want to work for the new entity you sign the contract and post it back, simple as that. It will be a few years before the unions will be in a position to engage in enterprise bargaining. Any pilot going back to work within the next two months on 80% or more of their previous package will be envied. It's going to be a long climb back for most of us, QF and a select few may be able to maintain their current T&Cs but the rest of are going to lose out at least in the short term.

If the employment entity remains the same - the EA remains in force. I’m pretty sure what you have suggested is contrary to the Fair Work Act.

However, I am not sure if renegotiating an EA can form part of the DOCA? Can anyone shed any light?

I would be expecting my union to do all it can to keep as many pilots employed as possible - and if that means a reduction in Ts and Cs, then so be it.

Colonel_Klink 3rd May 2020 01:33


Originally Posted by normanton (Post 10770851)
Well I'm sure AFAP will be agreeing with the 3% group policy now.

You’d have to think that policy is down the drain now!

normanton 3rd May 2020 01:45


Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink (Post 10770918)
You’d have to think that policy is down the drain now!

You would think so, yet Qantas let it go ahead in the LH EBA!

Lookleft 3rd May 2020 02:26


How will that pan out for JQ crew, still an expired EBA. I wonder how that first meeting will go when it happens in the distant future.
JQ: "3%"

Unions: "Ok where do we sign?"

JQ: " And by the way because of Covid-19 there will be no backpay, for the good of the Company."

Unions: "Ok"

KRUSTY 34 3rd May 2020 03:17


Originally Posted by Lookleft (Post 10770937)
JQ: "3%"

Unions: "Ok where do we sign?"

JQ: " And by the way because of Covid-19 there will be no backpay, for the good of the Company."

Unions: "Ok"

The first realistic question should be, will everyone keep their job?

The second, In what order of seniority will they return?

Ragnor 3rd May 2020 03:53


Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34 (Post 10770947)
The first realistic question should be, will everyone keep their job?

The second, In what order of seniority will they return?

Nothing to suggest anyone will loose their jobs at JQ or QF.

JQ like QF and VA will do what ever is cheapest to fire back up. I know JQ won't pax over a Perth Captain overnight them in Sydney to fly for a week then pax them back just because they're more senior. ML crew will do ML lines ADL crew will do ADL lines etc etc. There is nothing in the EBA to suggest that flying is rostered by seniority.

krismiler 3rd May 2020 04:45

Everything is up in the air regarding the new entity and a package needs to be put together to convince a majority of the creditors that this would be a better option than liquidation and getting cents on the dollar.

Asking creditors to write off a higher proportion of money owed to them in order for employees to maintain their current terms and conditions isn’t going to go down well, everyone needs to come to the party for a deal to work. An agreement lasting 2-3 years for T&Cs would need to be part of the package for the new owners to base their plans on.

The administrators should be able to put forward a proposal for a restructured airline but it will have very little room for negotiation in it. Obviously it looks better for them if the company can be saved, but they still get paid either way.

AAGpilot 10th May 2020 17:17

I’m not sure but this may not be good news. Bain Capital is a corporate raider, and where Mitt Romney made his money.

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/bain...0200510-p54riq

Denied Justice 10th May 2020 22:54

Good luck to the Virgin guys if Jane Hrdlicka gets her mitts on the controls at a revamped airline. Talk to the JQ guys about her time there. Not very flattering comments about her and the immediate past Chief Pilot, who has since returned to QF.

Des Dimona 10th May 2020 23:01

The AFR article:

KordaMentha can forget about playing administrator at Virgin Australia - it has a serious horse on the buy-side.

Street Talk can reveal KordaMentha, whose "two Marks" Mark Korda and Mark Mentha are big names in Australia's restructuring industry and oversaw Ansett Airlines' collapse nearly two decades ago, has been snapped up by global giant Bain Capital.

It is understood Bain has mandated KordaMentha as advisers with a view to have an indicative restructuring proposal to Virgin administrator Deloitte when the auction's first round finishes on Friday.
https://static.ffx.io/images/$zoom_0...2626b7127de3d7KordaMentha partner Mark Korda; The men who was asked to try to save Ansett in 2001 are back in the thick of it. AAP

Bain's camp also includes ex-Jetstar CEO (and recently departed a2 Milk Company boss) Jayne Hrdlicka, who ran the budget Australian airline from 2012 to 2018, and previously worked in Bain & Company's consulting arm.

While Bain will tap the expertise of its local advisers, the firm brings plenty of aviation experience from offshore, particularly when it comes to corporate revivals. Bain played key roles in several airline restructurings including Atlas Air, America United, and Northwest.Bain is believed to be working on its own at this stage, even as others partner up and form consortia. (Macquarie Group/Brookfield is one early example).

While Bain's based in Boston, it's expected to highlight its "Team Australia" type credentials in pitches to Virgin, governments and unions. The firm has been an active investor in Australia for a few decades and manages money for local institutions including the Future Fund and industry funds such as CareSuper, REST and EISS Super. Its local team includes private equity and credit/special situations type dealmakers.

KordaMentha's role comes after sources said it had earlier been positioning to run the administration. Virgin's board tapped Deloitte instead last month, and the company's creditors have since made no move to have Deloitte replaced.

Paragraph377 11th May 2020 06:35


Originally Posted by Des Dimona (Post 10778785)
The AFR article:

KordaMentha can forget about playing administrator at Virgin Australia - it has a serious horse on the buy-side.

Street Talk can reveal KordaMentha, whose "two Marks" Mark Korda and Mark Mentha are big names in Australia's restructuring industry and oversaw Ansett Airlines' collapse nearly two decades ago, has been snapped up by global giant Bain Capital.

It is understood Bain has mandated KordaMentha as advisers with a view to have an indicative restructuring proposal to Virgin administrator Deloitte when the auction's first round finishes on Friday.
https://static.ffx.io/images/$zoom_0...2626b7127de3d7KordaMentha partner Mark Korda; The men who was asked to try to save Ansett in 2001 are back in the thick of it. AAP

Bain's camp also includes ex-Jetstar CEO (and recently departed a2 Milk Company boss) Jayne Hrdlicka, who ran the budget Australian airline from 2012 to 2018, and previously worked in Bain & Company's consulting arm.

While Bain will tap the expertise of its local advisers, the firm brings plenty of aviation experience from offshore, particularly when it comes to corporate revivals. Bain played key roles in several airline restructurings including Atlas Air, America United, and Northwest.Bain is believed to be working on its own at this stage, even as others partner up and form consortia. (Macquarie Group/Brookfield is one early example).

While Bain's based in Boston, it's expected to highlight its "Team Australia" type credentials in pitches to Virgin, governments and unions. The firm has been an active investor in Australia for a few decades and manages money for local institutions including the Future Fund and industry funds such as CareSuper, REST and EISS Super. Its local team includes private equity and credit/special situations type dealmakers.

KordaMentha's role comes after sources said it had earlier been positioning to run the administration. Virgin's board tapped Deloitte instead last month, and the company's creditors have since made no move to have Deloitte replaced.

Well well now that is funny, Bain. And of course the 0900-1500 Mum will be involved as she is a consummate expert on aviation matters as a C-level executive. The village idiots will love her style - diversity, colouring in with crayons, females first in the workplace, all the ridiculous fluffy nonsense that VA was promulgating too. Hell, the ‘specialist’ title will undoubtedly stay too!! Fun times.



Buster Hyman 11th May 2020 07:12

Not sure Bain is a good mix for an Airline...


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8135da7492.gif

2020Balance 11th May 2020 10:00


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 10778945)
Well well now that is funny, Bain. And of course the 0900-1500 Mum will be involved as she is a consummate expert on aviation matters as a C-level executive. The village idiots will love her style - diversity, colouring in with crayons, females first in the workplace, all the ridiculous fluffy nonsense that VA was promulgating too. Hell, the ‘specialist’ title will undoubtedly stay too!! Fun times.

If Bain get the bid what happens to Paul, Stewie, the ELT, and the board???


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:15.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.