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-   -   RIN 2020 (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/631015-rin-2020-a.html)

ROH111 29th Mar 2020 03:11

RIN 2020
With the last B747 service, there would be a lot of pilots soon to retire, almost retire and then the ones who have been taking the cream for 15-20 years and havenít taken a promotion. Anyhow, I digress.

RIN 2020. How will it work?

the company wonít have the money for a full RIN a55 kicking exercise going backwards... could they fire just the -400 guys, or could they keep the ďstood downĒ permanently?

crosscutter 29th Mar 2020 04:09

How much $ is in the QF bank?

why would the EA not apply?

Keg 29th Mar 2020 04:52

Given the nature of the changes that are occurring every few hours let alone every day/ week, I’m not sure the company has yet had time to even look too deeply into how a RIN could work. I’m quite confident it’s not yet very high on their priority list.

Of course pilots being pilots (particularly with lots of idle time in our brains) are turning their minds to such things.

I suspect that’s it for the 747 but I’m pretty sure no final decision has yet been made. Again, what was current a few days ago is no longer current.

normanton 29th Mar 2020 04:52

The chief pilot was asked this in a webinar the other day. His exact words were "at an appropriate time we will follow the RIN process". Make of that what you will.

My personal opinion is that the retirements and remaining 747 pilots would have already been accounted for with the next 3 787's.

With the head of training saying all courses have been deferred, I suspect those waiting for a RIN off the 747 will just stay stood down.

How they get all the wheels turning again is going to be a big task.

hotnhigh 29th Mar 2020 04:57

And the 380?????

KZ Kiwi 29th Mar 2020 05:49

If we get to the point where we are doing a RIN then that's a positive because it means we are flying again.
Nothing is certain.

crosscutter 29th Mar 2020 06:17

Cathay’s debt profile as of Dec 19. 90% debt:equity. The shake down hasn’t even started yet. It’s far too early to be making decisions.

dragon man 29th Mar 2020 07:35

One hell of a mess, where as most wanted to go to the 380 IMO they will now go to the 787.

dr dre 29th Mar 2020 07:42

Canít really RIN anyone to any fleet when they arenít flying, and no line training can be conducted.

Iím told VA have said the redundant Tiger pilots are on stand down until thereís cash to pay them a redundancy.

It may be a case that the 744 and excess 380 pilots are just held on indefinite standown until thereís 787s or even some 350s for them to go to and they get by on either leave or the governmentís wage subsidy until then. Natural attrition will probably take care of a decent chunk of pilots in that case.

dragon man 29th Mar 2020 08:01

My reading of 15.6 is that once restrictions are lifted on international operations and pilots are called back from Stand down then its one back all back. The fact that there are not enough customers is not the pilots problem.

angryrat 29th Mar 2020 08:08

I think this is another case of sit on your hands and donít listen to rumours. When the 767 was retired on the back of a $2B loss, all these same rumours were being thrown out there, company wasnít going to follow the EA, FWA would throw the award out etc etc etc.

As history will show, the 767 RIN followed the EA at great expense right after a $2B loss. Donít listen to the scaremongering.

OnceBitten 29th Mar 2020 08:12

I think you need to re read 15.6 Dragonman. It all refers to a pilot, singular, not plural.

CamelSquadron 29th Mar 2020 08:15

Originally Posted by dragon man (Post 10731750)
The fact that there are not enough customers is not the pilots problem.

It sure will be the pilots problem should it eventuate. Your employment is directly linked to your employers circumstances. Only public servants get to ignore reality.

dragon man 29th Mar 2020 08:24


The Company may deduct payments from the pay of an Australian based pilot for any day the pilot cannot be usefully employed because of any strike, stoppage or other limitation of work for which the Company cannot be held responsible, subject to the following conditions:

Then each individual pilot can return to work once those limitations for which the company cannot be held responsible are lifted, in other words planes can fly unrestricted the fact there are not customers is not the pilots responsibility.

normanton 29th Mar 2020 08:47

If you are on a fleet that has no flying, then you cannot be usefully employed and will remain stood down.

That's how I read it?

dragon man 29th Mar 2020 08:51

Originally Posted by normanton (Post 10731797)
If you are on a fleet that has no flying, then you cannot be usefully employed and will remain stood down.

That's how I read it?

In the case of the 747 there is no fleet therefore a RIN.

normanton 29th Mar 2020 08:55

And as the CP said two days ago "at an appropriate time we will follow the RIN process". What he meant by "an appropriate time" is anyone's guess. The way he stumbled at the answer made it sound like it wont be happening anytime soon.

We are in uncharted territory. A lot of the 747 crew will have to make the decision: RIN to 380 and remain stood down, or RIN to the 787 and wait for a training course. That's assuming the rumours are correct. Only two days ago management denied it.

dragon man 29th Mar 2020 09:01

That’s your opinion it does not mean it’s correct. Fair work stand down provisions are quite explicit that lack of customers when there are no restrictions on your business are not reasons for standing down staff.

OnceBitten 29th Mar 2020 09:04

Dragonman, If you are stood down and the 747 is gone, whats the trigger that says you can be usefully employed when the individual(s) have no aircraft to be usefully employed on? Therefore a RIN cannot take place until the company can see a place where you can be usefully employed, then you are entitled under the award to a RIN process. Thats the way I read it.

normanton 29th Mar 2020 09:07

And that's your opinion dragon_man. It also doesn't mean its correct.

If your fleet is grounded and therefore you cannot be usefully employed then they are within their rights to stand you down.

If the corona-virus has destroyed international travel to the point where large commercial aircraft are not viable, then that's out of the company's control, and within the stand down rights.

in other words planes can fly unrestricted the fact there are not customers is not the pilots responsibility.
No, that's your words, not the law.

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