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-   -   Australia's benign weather (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/629576-australias-benign-weather.html)

oicur12.again 11th Feb 2020 17:12

Aus weather may not get the snow and ice issues experienced overseas however some of the worst storms I have seen have been around Brissy.

My airline is limited to 50 knots for any operations so any forecast beyond that is irrelevant.

The difference between the US (and I assume Europe) and Aus is the lack of dispatch support provided to pilots down under and the remote location of many airports with little offering in the way of a plan b.

Flying in the US is constant handholding with big brother watching your every move in real time along with a HUGE number of options in case the destination turns to worms. Its a great system and makes for a generally enjoyable day out.

But I take my hat off to pilots in oz, I think its a challenging place to keep the wagon on the rails, on time and safe.


InSoMnIaC 12th Feb 2020 00:18


Originally Posted by 73qanda (Post 10684796)
Sounds like a sensible option to me.
Boeing says
So if the ATIS is broadcasting ‘W/S on all runways, Taxiway B1 closed due flooding’
and some aircraft are going around ( as was the case), is that not confirmation of wind shear?
The show carries on and passengers get safely to their destination, until they don’t.
I don’t think anyone could fault you if you tootled off to your alternate.
I certainly wouldn’t have been landing on 16L with that wind/rain/ notam/flap combination.


Boeing just issues recommendations. Not binding unless the operator adopts the recommendation. If we were to divert at the first mention of windshear it would be overkill. Severe windshear.. definitely avoid.

maggot 12th Feb 2020 02:01

There’s wind shear and there’s microburst windshear

Eclan 12th Feb 2020 02:11


Originally Posted by maggot (Post 10685610)
There’s wind shear and there’s microburst windshear

It's all windshear. Same set of procedures for all of it.

CaptCloudbuster 12th Feb 2020 03:02


Originally Posted by Eclan (Post 10685614)
It's all windshear. Same set of procedures for all of it.

Same risk?

73qanda 12th Feb 2020 04:16


There’s wind shear and there’s microburst windshear
I 100% agree. At the end of the day it comes down to the Captain as to how much of a risk the conditions on that day present. On that particular day

I don’t think anyone could fault you if you tootled off to your alternate.

maggot 12th Feb 2020 04:39

Yes
no
Yes

Thanks for playing

How's the weekend looking? Commuters dream

sunnySA 12th Feb 2020 11:13

GLEX 16L Wind Shear Escape will make interesting reading

Eclan 12th Feb 2020 11:47


Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster (Post 10685632)
Same risk?

No. But same set of procedures.

Derfred 12th Feb 2020 12:11


Originally Posted by Eclan (Post 10685926)
No. But same set of procedures.

Same set of procedures for a “Windshear Escape Manoeuvre” yes, but for all other contingency planning and decision making before and after, such as the decision to even commence the approach, or to attempt another approach - completely different. Are you a pilot or a computer?

missy 12th Feb 2020 22:11


Originally Posted by Derfred (Post 10685954)
Same set of procedures for a “Windshear Escape Manoeuvre” yes, but for all other contingency planning and decision making before and after, such as the decision to even commence the approach, or to attempt another approach - completely different.

Last weekend, particularly Sunday, there were numerous missed or discontinued approaches due wind shear - some aircraft declared wind shear escape, some aircraft declared "just" wind shear, some aircraft declared predicted wind shear. Some aircraft held prior to making an approach, some aircraft were processed for a second or third approach, some aircraft diverted.

Capt Fathom 12th Feb 2020 22:35

And for aircraft without ‘Windshear Warning Systems’, they just continued on through the mechanical turbulence and landed.
Any windshear encounters reported by departing aircraft?

73qanda 12th Feb 2020 23:31

More interesting than the decision to commence approaches is the fact that lots of narrow bodies landed on 16L in heavy rain and the ATIS reporting that a taxiway was closed due flooding, I assume most/all the Boeing’s used flap 30 due to the crosswind and wind shear. All the while notams that we’ve all come to expect ( and maybe ignore) state;

H253/20 A) YSSY B) 2001152333 C) 2002292000
E) RWY 16L LOW FRICTION VALUE
AVERAGE VALUE 0.24, 0.29 AND 0.31 BLW MINIMUM VALUE 0.43
LOCATED 3M EITHER SIDE OF RUNWAY CENTRELINE
BTN 500M-700M FM RWY 16L START OF TAKEOFF

H255/20 A) YSSY B) 2001152340 C) 2002292000
E) RWY 34R LOW FRICTION VALUE
AVERAGE VALUE 0.23, 0.36 AND 0.41
0.41 BLW MINIMUM VALUE 0.43 LOCATED 3M WESTERN SIDE
OF CL BTN 350M-562M FM RWY 34R START OF TAKEOFF
Thats 20% of your ground roll notam’d as below minimum required friction levels due rubber build up if you land on the 1000’ markers. Or a quarter of your landing roll notam’d as below minimum required friction levels due rubber build up if you touch down at 1500’ ( in heavy rain, with less than full flap, maybe carrying extra knots for gusts).
Things are starting to stack up.
I might buy shares in Sydney Airport Holdings.

missy 13th Feb 2020 00:23


Originally Posted by Capt Fathom (Post 10686320)
And for aircraft without ‘Windshear Warning Systems’, they just continued on through the mechanical turbulence and landed.
Any windshear encounters reported by departing aircraft?

Yes, from RWY 16R.

Stationair8 13th Feb 2020 09:54

Lord Howe TAF, makes for some interesting bedtime reading.

Eclan 13th Feb 2020 10:38


Originally Posted by Derfred (Post 10685954)
Same set of procedures for a “Windshear Escape Manoeuvre” yes, but for all other contingency planning and decision making before and after, such as the decision to even commence the approach, or to attempt another approach - completely different. Are you a pilot or a computer?

Yes that is all perfectly obvious but maggot gave the impression he was referring to the experience, not the planning. Or maybe just "term-dropping". If that's not the case then move on. The airplane doesn't know if its in regular old windshear or "microburst windshear" and the procedure for dealing with it is no different because it's microburst-related.

Chris2303 13th Feb 2020 18:50


Originally Posted by Stationair8 (Post 10686603)
Lord Howe TAF, makes for some interesting bedtime reading.

Somehow I don't think the Dash will be going there today

acpulse 19th Feb 2020 10:36


Originally Posted by BlackPanther (Post 10683108)
I don't want to be labelled an apologist, but I just wanted to note to those that may be reading this that most ATC's would agree with you. There are huge limitations in our 'system' (not talking about the computer system, I mean the entire SHELL system as a whole) which cause these issues.

The actual controllers themselves work harder and more diligently than ever during these events.

Well, there are some significant issues with the computer system aren't there... haha.

I mean even from a planning perspective all those years ago, who decided to put an FDRG boundary running along the TCU of the countries busiest airport? Makes it interesting when jets deviate into your airspace which you have no flight plan for.


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