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-   -   PNG AIR fuel policy or lack of? (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/628186-png-air-fuel-policy-lack.html)

faheel 20th Dec 2019 23:31

PNG AIR fuel policy or lack of?
 
I hear via the jungle drums that png air have changed their fuel policy to one where should an alternate be required, they only have to arrive at the alternate with 30 mins fixed reserve.
No allowance for variable reserve or approach fuel on the atln sector. Apparently casa png have allowed this.

I am talking about a turbo prop operation here, For as long as I can remember Turboprop ops in PNG were required to carry 45 FR and 15% contingency fuel(jet ops are 30 FR and 10%) The reason for the difference being the much slower flight times by prop aircraft.

There have been numerous cases where the idiot at PNG Air responsible for the policy change has landed with low fuel lights on at remote locations, an accident waiting to happen.

I also hear that a flt was dispatched out of Lihir with only 1 flight attendant on board for 71 passengers, totally illegal.

Casa PNG needs to get on the case.

I am pretty sure that the PNG CAR and CAO have been breached in both cases, there will be an accident before long.:ugh:

Australopithecus 21st Dec 2019 01:04

Have at look at ICAO fuel requirements: Destination + Alternate + 30 minutes holding at 1500’

faheel 21st Dec 2019 02:58

State trumps icao

morno 21st Dec 2019 03:28


Originally Posted by faheel (Post 10644622)
State trumps icao

What do the local regulations say then?

You canít come on here saying ďIím pretty sureĒ when things may have changed beyond ďfor as long as I can rememberĒ. Maybe PNG have adopted ICAO.

ARPs 21st Dec 2019 03:59

But PNG Air havenít killed anyone.... pity the same cannot be said for APNG or MBA.

Just change the company name... accident free history

minigundiplomat 21st Dec 2019 20:02

Faheel,

You felt compelled enough to write to PPrune, but not CASA?


But PNG Air havenít killed anyone.... pity the same cannot be said for APNG or MBA.
​​​​​​​.... or PX.

Paragraph377 21st Dec 2019 20:18


Originally Posted by faheel (Post 10644555)
I also hear that a flt was dispatched out of Lihir with only 1 flight attendant on board for 71 passengers, totally illegal.

TCAS up to his old tricks?

faheel 21st Dec 2019 21:59

"You felt compelled enough to write to PPrune, but not CASA?"

Correct, its not my place to write to CASA ,this is a rumour network and I am reporting what has been said to me in confidence.

The guys that told me this work up there and have first hand knowledge of these incidents,not I, as such I suggested they take their concerns to CASA.

What is interesting is the person driving these changes was deemed not a fit and proper person by CASA years ago due to his gun running episode.
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2004-.../564734?pfm=sm


​​​​​​​

minigundiplomat 21st Dec 2019 22:04


Correct, its not my place to write to CASA ,this is a rumour network and I am reporting what has been said to me in confidence.
I can't really get excited about this, but I am intrigued that someone allegedly shared this with you 'in confidence', a confidence which you broke by posting it on a rumour network, or they shared it wanting you to take some action, and you thought it was so serious that a rumour network was the appropriate place, rather than the regulator?

faheel 21st Dec 2019 22:13


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 10645177)
I can't really get excited about this, but I am intrigued that someone allegedly shared this with you 'in confidence', a confidence which you broke by posting it on a rumour network, or they shared it wanting you to take some action, and you thought it was so serious that a rumour network was the appropriate place, rather than the regulator?

It is a rumour network, in confidence means just that, I am not going to divulge names to keep you happy and appease your sense of outrage,and since you cannot get "excited' over this RUMOUR just don't read the thread.
Enuff said from me.

BalusKaptan 21st Dec 2019 23:11

This is the problem with rumour networks......the facts might explain what is going on as opposed to just some of the facts.
While the flight from A to B will show a variable reserve as a % on the CFP, the alternate fuel consists of; - Missed approach manoeuvre, Flight to alternate, Arrival manoeuvre, Approach, Landing, % variable. You will need to check their Fuel Policy for this. It will just show on the CFP as just one single figure. I'm quoting here from my current operator, maybe PNG is different but I doubt it. For as long as I can remember the variable % for the alternate has never been tabulated separately so maybe they are just catching up with standard ICAO practise.

Mumbai Merlin 22nd Dec 2019 04:34

Faheel,

State does NOT trump ICAO.
PNG is a signatory to ICAO Annex and is required to conduct itself accordingly. For example age 65 on International Ops.
Read Balus Kaptan's post, he's right!

172510 22nd Dec 2019 08:51


Originally Posted by Mumbai Merlin (Post 10645289)
Faheel,
State does NOT trump ICAO.
PNG is a signatory to ICAO Annex and is required to conduct itself accordingly. For example age 65 on International Ops.
Read Balus Kaptan's post, he's right!

Yes it does!
Read again the convention: https://www.icao.int/publications/Do.../7300_cons.pdf
It's permitted to depart from the ICAO rules and standards provided that it's notified to the ICAO
Article 38 Any State which finds it impracticable to comply in all respects with any such international standard or procedure, or to bring its own regulations or practices into full accord with any international standard or procedure after amendment of the latter, or which deems it necessary to adopt regulations or practices differing in any particular respect from those established by an international standard, shall give immediate notification to the International Civil Aviation Organization of the differences between its own practice and that established by the international standard.(...)
and published in the AIP (cf.Annex 15)

AQIS Boigu 22nd Dec 2019 13:52

Back in my days Highlands ops used to require a costal alternate plus 30 mins. Tabubil ops full tanks or up MLW.

Only a moron would fly to Hagen and carry Mendi or Chimbu as his alternate.

Donít care what ICAO or TCAS (or his subordinates) mandate.

https://casapng.gov.pg/wp-content/up...ight-Rules.pdf

Para 91.403 and 405 are very specific

172510 22nd Dec 2019 16:19


Originally Posted by 172510 (Post 10645391)
and published in the AIP (cf.Annex 15)

5.3.2 Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP)
5.3.2.2 Aeronautical Information Publications shall include:
c) a list of significant differences between the national regulations and practices of the State and the related ICAO Standards, Recommended Practices and Procedures, given in a form that would enable a user to differentiate readily between the requirements of the State and the related ICAO provisions;

beached az 22nd Dec 2019 20:39


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 10645118)

TCAS up to his old tricks?

TCAS is he still around?
Thought That C*** had departed the building stage left?? :eek:

faheel 23rd Dec 2019 00:05


Originally Posted by beached az (Post 10645789)
TCAS is he still around?
Thought That C*** had departed the building stage left?? :eek:

Afraid he still has his snout in the trough that is PNG Air,I believe he spends all his time doing endorsements and sim renewals on the atr and dash8,don't think he sets foot in the country anymore, having relinquished his position to that f*[email protected]#wit gun runner.
Who, from what I am led to believe is running the show in an unofficial capacity,,dunno who the ops director is either.

beached az 23rd Dec 2019 00:29


Originally Posted by faheel (Post 10645874)
Afraid he still has his snout in the trough that is PNG Air,I believe he spends all his time doing endorsements and sim renewals on the atr and dash8,don't think he sets foot in the country anymore, having relinquished his position to that f*[email protected]#wit gun runner.
Who, from what I am led to believe is running the show in an unofficial capacity,,dunno who the ops director is either.

Good to see ops normal at Terminal 2 then :ugh:

So the only way TCAS can work in Aus is on a PNG licence.
Bloody hilarious although I'm not laughing.

Good luck Wantoks :ok:

Paragraph377 23rd Dec 2019 03:00


Originally Posted by beached az (Post 10645879)
So the only way TCAS can work in Aus is on a PNG licence.

Nothing has changed. Same antics as when he was at Skytrans - flying pax around with not enough cabin crew onboard, busting rules aplenty, with pretty much the same outcome - CASA Australia and CASA PNG have turned a blind eye, while TCAS and his posse of Skytans/PNG Air acolytes hide mostly on Australian shores. Itís a joke. An old joke. And itís the joke that keeps on giving because he is still heavily remunerated and very well cared for. TCAS will bust any rule over safety if it means his Masters turn a fat profit. And he has gotten away with it for a long, long time.

lucille 23rd Dec 2019 04:51

Surely a fuel policy defines minimum fuel not maximum fuel. The Captain decides on the day what his fuel load will be. No?


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