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QF72 Story
I recommend everyone watch this story:
https://7plus.com.au/sunday-night It's in regards to QF72 and that flight in 2008 when the Airbus A330's computer systems went haywire and how the captain, Kevin Sullivan and his crew saved the lives of the passengers. The aircraft had to land at Learmonth due to an emergency landing. Many passengers and crew were injured. Also please sign the petition (link can be found below) sk that Kevin and his crew can be formally recognised and awarded meaning: The Qantas Chairman's Diamond Award for displaying such extraordinary valor, selflessness, and remarkable courage, which was crucial in protecting the aircraft and the safety of all 315 passengers and crew on board in circumstances of extreme peril and Australia's highest civilian Bravery award, the 'Cross of Valor" for acts of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme peril, here is the link for the petition: https://www.change.org/p/qantas-group-forgotten-heroes-of-qantas-flight-qf72?fbclid=IwAR1yqsoBgVQBex3_G_ZJQNepXEI19RF0qe_qTJU-wBZBbx1uVIxQElKafks As we know a lot of passengers whinge and complain about aviation such as flights being late etc etc but we should never ever forget that crews prior, during and after flights do everything they can to ensure passengers are safe and I for one alwa y s thank them once the flight is over. A simple "Thank you" - more passengers should say it. Cheers. |
Originally Posted by Saintly
(Post 10485053)
Australia's highest civilian Bravery award, the 'Cross of Valor" for acts of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme peril,
The CV has only been awarded to 5 Australians since inception, and is pretty much limited to those who have consciously and deliberately chose to put their lives at risk to save the lives of others. It includes someone who touched a high voltage electricity wire and copped severe electrocution in order to save a child, another who saved a child’s life by going into a raging stormwater drain during a torrential flood, and two whom went into the nightclub after the Bali bombings without protective clothing and sustained severe burns in order to drag people out. CROSS OF VALOUR RECIPIENTS Again taking nothing away from the crew, but the Channel 7 story was overly sensationalised, typical of current day tabloid media. Labelling it as the “untold story no one has ever hear of” when the ATSB report was released 8 years ago, and a quick google search shows dozens of articles written about the incident when it occurred and in the following years. Maybe “the story that hasn’t been given the sensationalist Channel 7 tabloid trash treatment” would be a more accurate descriptor. And heavy on the QF bashing. Jealousy from the network at not being QF’s broadcaster of choice? |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10485109)
It was a good act of professionalism and flying by the crew, but the suggestion of awarding the Cross of Valour is a little too much. The CV has only been awarded to 5 Australians since inception, and is pretty much limited to those who have consciously and deliberately chose to put their lives at risk to save the lives of others. It includes someone who touched a high voltage electricity wire and copped severe electrocution in order to save a child, another who saved a child’s life by going into a raging stormwater drain during a torrential flood, and two whom went into the nightclub after the Bali bombings without protective clothing and sustained severe burns in order to drag people out. CROSS OF VALOUR RECIPIENTS Again taking nothing away from the crew, but the Channel 7 story was overly sensationalised, typical of current day tabloid media. Labelling it as the “untold story no one has ever hear of” when the ATSB report was released 8 years ago, and a quick google search shows dozens of articles written about the incident when it occurred and in the following years. Maybe “the story that hasn’t been given the sensationalist Channel 7 tabloid trash treatment” would be a more accurate descriptor. And heavy on the QF bashing. Jealousy from the network at not being QF’s broadcaster of choice? Crew should receive an airmanship award. Very professionally handled, and they should be proud of themselves. |
Good points Dr Dre
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We gotta remember the grubby media with these sorts of "Hollywood" style trashy reports are aimed at the general public not so much professional pilots doing the same task daily, we know better, the public lap up this garbage! The crew did a great job and oddly enough the most important person on ANY plane is the pilot/s, they don't wanna die so they do their very best for them first, the SLF behind them just happens to benefit from their actions! That all said must have been a hell of a rde! Initially thoughts might have been damned it. now we will have to have tea and bickies then it escalated to hell we are in a fight to say our asses! |
Was interesting that the crew/employees were not permitted to speak of the incident.
A stark contrast to another cringe-worthy episode with another Airbus. Disappointing, but not surprising that the compensation 'offered' to at least one employee appeared to be an amount, completely at odds, with what ought be considered a duty of care payment. An employer with an seriously injured employee ought be required to compensate. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10485109)
And heavy on the QF bashing. Jealousy from the network at not being QF’s broadcaster of choice? |
The latest series of Air Crash Investigation did a reasonable job on this. Especially interesting we’re the extraordinary lengths the ATSB went to in trying to replicate the fault. Without a definitive answer if I recall correctly? |
Originally Posted by TempoTCu
(Post 10485915)
Catastrophising incidents and accidents for the sake of TV ratings does nothing for anyone - especially those involved. Maybe its a case of Kerry Stokes missing out on an invitation to the Chairmans Lounge?
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Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34
(Post 10486169)
The latest series of Air Crash Investigation did a reasonable job on this. Especially interesting we’re the extraordinary lengths the ATSB went to in trying to replicate the fault. Without a definitive answer if I recall correctly? However from the flight data downloads they were able to see that the ADIRU had been sending intermittent corrupt output, skipping a data segment and sending AOA data, for example, where there should have been airspeed data. I forget which data in particular. It seems that 60 Minutes just took the ACI program and gave it the "Jana Wendt touch". You know, ample use of "horror", "terrified", "blood", and away you go. |
Originally Posted by WingNut60
(Post 10486664)
As I recall, they (ATSB) were not able to induce or replicate an erroneous output from the suspect ADIRU.
However from the flight data downloads they were able to see that the ADIRU had been sending intermittent corrupt output, skipping a data segment and sending AOA data, for example, where there should have been airspeed data. I forget which data in particular. It seems that 60 Minutes just took the ACI program and gave it the "Jana Wendt touch". You know, ample use of "horror", "terrified", "blood", and away you go. Sometimes electrical things ate just duds. |
If you have not read Captain Kevin Sullivan book on QF72. I would suggest you get a copy. It is an easy book to read and an amazing story. A very courageous crew
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I read the book today - I couldn't put it down. Its well written and the humility and honesty of it comes through... I don't see any conscious self-aggrandisment in there. Yes, he says he was an ace at fighter school. Well.... he was.
The question I would ask detractors is "given the avalanche of warnings, failures, and conflicting information how would you stack up?" The point about Kevin Sullivan is that its not really about what he did on that flight as much as that he had the qualities that enabled him to qualify as a Top Gun at the US Navy Fighter Weapons School in the first place AND the subsequent F-14 and Mirage training were the same qualities that equipped him to sort it then fall apart AFTER it was all over. He's very candid about that and the subsequent PTSD in the book. Those passengers were damned lucky there wasn't a child of the magenta line up front. The only slightly weird thing is that he refers constantly to his daughter, but never his wife - whom he presumably had the daughter with; but thats his prerogative if he wants to keep his private life, well, private, |
I read it too. I’m particularly concerned about the ADIRU failure not being able to be replicated. that means either the hardware or software doesn’t have the right hooks in it for debugging. That means it’s a bad design that cannot be fixed, which is what I think Qantas must have concluded before replacing them. BTW, Boeing is getting flak for still using an 80286 processor in the B737 FCC. I was told many years ago that they did this purely for hardware reliability reasons. I’m not sure what processor the failed ADIRU used, but leading edge processors have bugs that take years to discover. |
One of the things I’ve always kept in the back of my head after this and a few other incidents, as an absolute last resort, if the aircraft starts pitching itself around uncommanded, ADR 2&3 OFF, get the thing into alternate law. At least then the protections are turned off and I have a somewhat more controllable aircraft. |
Originally Posted by morno
(Post 10562933)
One of the things I’ve always kept in the back of my head after this and a few other incidents, as an absolute last resort, if the aircraft starts pitching itself around uncommanded, ADR 2&3 OFF, get the thing into alternate law. At least then the protections are turned off and I have a somewhat more controllable aircraft. I admit I am completely unqualified, but I have always wondered if ‘what’s it doing now” goes through crew mind, then getting it into Alternate Law, or Direct Law if possible, would at least put pilot back in charge. I have been reluctant to ask this given my lack of real knowledge. |
Originally Posted by rjtjrt
(Post 10562953)
I admit I am completely unqualified, but I have always wondered if ‘what’s it doing now” goes through crew mind, then getting it into Alternate Law, or Direct Law if possible, would at least put pilot back in charge. I have been reluctant to ask this given my lack of real knowledge. |
Originally Posted by Sunfish
(Post 10562925)
I read it too. I’m particularly concerned about the ADIRU failure not being able to be replicated. that means either the hardware or software doesn’t have the right hooks in it for debugging. That means it’s a bad design that cannot be fixed, which is what I think Qantas must have concluded before replacing them. BTW, Boeing is getting flak for still using an 80286 processor in the B737 FCC. I was told many years ago that they did this purely for hardware reliability reasons. I’m not sure what processor the failed ADIRU used, but leading edge processors have bugs that take years to discover. Airbus logic is it it has three ADRs. It compares the data and if one is found to be outside of limits via a statistical algorithm, it discounts that source and goes with the good data. The flaw was two ADRs were giving the same faulty data, so it discounted the good data of the single non malfunctioning unit, the flight protections kicked in and acted on the bad. The fastest way to regain control of an airbus is turn 2 ADRs off. A lot of people say 3&1. My personal preference would be the PNFs and the backup. If it gets away from you, three off and fly the BUSS. |
Why the ADRs? If you turned the PRIMs off, you’d still get direct law, but you wouldn’t need to fall back to the BUSS?
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Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10485109)
It was a good act of professionalism and flying by the crew, but the suggestion of awarding the Cross of Valour is a little too much. The most appropriate award would probably be IFALPA’s Polaris. It was strange though, that internally at the airline QF30 and QF32 crews were given the Chairman’s award, but 72 seemed forgotten. |
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