AFAP go rogue
 

I’m hearing the AFAP have gone rogue with their Jetstar negotiations. Over the top claims including a large percentage increase to exceed shorthaul rates, equivalent 787 pay, staff travel priority higher than mainline amongst other things. Looks like they are deliberately picking a fight. Do the Jetstar guys think they can successfully fight Qantas?

What’s that smell?
 

Most of us (including the negotiating team) were not here at the start and did not sign the initial contract (2004), from which many of those original conditions still remain today.

Regarding why did we accept employment under such a contract, read the previous post from popgun.

We all knew it wasn't legacy pay and conditions (Qantas), but it was still a decent payrise from my job in GA, and maybe the only once in a life time opportunity to join an airline and fly a jet, especially in Australia. QF were not hiring at the time, otherwise some people missed out or didn't have the requirements, and Virgin depended on how many blue stars you could get. The only other option was to go overseas. What else was I supposed to do ? Remain in GA on less pay ?

Once pilots join an airline, even if not ideal conditions at the time, it does not mean don't ever stop fighting for better improved conditions.

Well, first of all, they didn't sign a contract, they accepted an offer of employment, which would have stated that the applicable workplace agreement (as varied from time to time) would apply. And now it's time to vary it.

And they probably accepted the job offer because it was the best one available at the time and they needed to feed their family and hoped to advance their career. That doesn't mean they were happy with it.

Enshrined in law in this country is the scope to improve a workplace agreement through collective bargaining, which is what is happening now, and is what happens all over the country, all the time. And every time, people like you make complete fools of themselves in public.

OCTA..

I say again As Defred said, this is exactly what EBA negotiating is about.

In the same way as management are always trying to get more from us/the company (and they get rewarded with KPI's, bonuses, etc...), the pilots naturally want more (a better deal) from the company too.

Spot the management troll............

Sounds very much like an ambit claim for me - the usual farce that precedes all industrial negotiations. The IR people must be seen to be doing something to justify their existence.

Hmmm... Can we agree, from an economic perspective that the contract you signed up to is what you are "worth"? So you know what they're going to say right... What are you willing to give up to get these things?

1. ...being treated as a second class citizen on QF aircraft when it comes to duty and staff travel despite having no similar advantage on a JQ aircraft: Actual QF employees are treated like second-class citizens so I guess you mean third-class. There's an order - every manager worldwide then everyone else. You can have the advantage on JQ if you want!
2. No minimum daily credit on long haul: QF SH don't have this
3. Constant 4 sector day abuse on short haul: sounds like another day at QF SH
4. No pattern protection: be careful what you wish for. Want to have your entire roster up-ended in week 1 and owe them for your entire rosters? I guarantee you'll drop the hours; or you won't and then complain about it to everyone anyway.
5. Sub-standard... ...sick leave provisions: sounds pretty QF-like
6. Lack of preferential bid and open time systems: I guess this is part of the contract you signed. What will you give up for this?
7. Appalling annual leave system: yep, just like QF
8. Sub-standard hotels: if QF pilots spend half their lives in ****holes (London, LA etc.) then I imagine the LCC ones can't be great; and
9. Inedible and unhealthy inflight catering: didn't you guys vote out meals??

Now, this said - I'm all for going hard and good luck to anyone who gets the absolute best terms and conditions possible. But these are the realities of where we're at, no? What if JQ wasn't a part of the QF group, would you still be expecting all this stuff? Imagine telling a Ryanair, Veulig or other LCC pilot that you can get J seats on QF when you pax around! Hell, closer to home I reckon there would be a couple hundred VA pilots that would be keen on this..!

Until there a huge levels of parked JQ aircraft around Australia and SE Asia/NZ then nothing will change. All they need is 50% plus 1 and there will always be enough that sell out for a slightly above CPI cash injection (or even worse, one-off bonus).

What if the employment market has changed since the last EBA? Would you still go and ask for CPI even though it is a below market salary? End of the day you get paid what you negotiate nothing more nothing less. If you are in a stronger bargaining position than the company you can expect to get a better deal. Whether this is the case or not is yet to be seen.