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Speed limit warning in modern jets - BB
Reading BB’s Aviation column - “Modern civilian jet aircraft have a speed limit warning reduction below about 8000 feet from the usual descent-indicated speed of about 330 knots to about 270 knots”. Is that just a poorly written statement or am I to many whiskeys in? Ok the bus I drive isn’t overly modern but there certainly ain’t no limit warning, drive the beast on the barbers pole all the way down if ya like (maybe tea and biccies after thou). What about the ole 250 knots below 10 anyway? Yes a rambling post, but just curious on thoughts. Ok time for another blue label. |
The 717 will provide a message (warning) “SPEED LIMIT EXCEEDED” on the EAD if you leave the standard 250/10000 on the descent profile and you exceeds that speed. of course you can do what ever speed you elect/approved (up to 340) to do if you amend the descent page. |
I thought the same as you Global. Some fairly arbitrary numbers there.
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I recall many moons ago being told that Speedbird had a ‘bird speed’ (irony I know) of about 307 knots below 10K on the 767. I’ve never seen it written in a manual either before or since that time. |
313kts below 8000 for birds on the 75.
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Q400 Barbers Pole reduces from 282 to 245 through 8500, speed is limited due to windshield strength in event of a birdstrike. Can't speak for other types but that rings true in the dash. |
Originally Posted by Global aviator
Is that just a poorly written statement or am I to many whiskeys in?
What about the ole 250 knots below 10 anyway?
Originally Posted by Renurp
The 717 will provide a message “SPEED LIMIT EXCEEDED” on the EAD if you leave the standard 250/10000 on the descent profile and you exceeds that speed.
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Originally Posted by pinkpanther1
(Post 10293479)
Q400 Barbers Pole reduces from 282 to 235 through 8500, speed is limited due to windshield strength in event of a birdstrike. Can't speak for other types but that rings true in the dash.
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Didn't that fine example of British engineering, the BA46, have some strange speed limit around 8000ft - I think it was 230KIAS. This was due in part due to the resultant damage caused by a bird strike on the windscreen pillar, and not specifically the windscreens. Long time ago and similar to dating a complete nutter - a forgettable experience.
As for Mr Bailey's article, may I suggest several stiff whiskeys to make the incoherent somewhat coherent (like putting lipstick on a pig; it is still a pig). |
The 250 below 10 is an ATC restriction not a physical aircraft restriction.
The change at 8000' is for bird strikes which varies in aircraft, I think the Falcon 900 is at about 320 Knots so if you get a speed waiver... you're coming in hot. |
Originally Posted by Weapons Hot
Didn't that fine example of British engineering, the BA46, have some strange speed limit around 8000ft - I think it was 230KIAS.
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Pay attention folk. Speed limit below 10,000ft is 250kts in C,D, E & G and 200kts below 2500ft in D within 4nm of class D aerodrome. AIP ENR 1.4-8 & 9
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Folks,
From memory ( so please don't shoot me down if you think otherwise) but old BCAR certification standards had the Imperial Standard Bird only flying to 8000', the American Golden Eagle could fly to 10,000 ---- and old habits die hard. Trouble is, birds don't know their Limitations. Tootle pip!! |
Indeed the Imperial Bird only flew to 8000 ft. Whether QFE, QNH or QNE was not specified. Which meant that there was no speed limit over the Andes. A classic example of aviation's many arbitrary limits.
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Originally Posted by Vag277
(Post 10293551)
Pay attention folk. Speed limit below 10,000ft is 250kts in C,D, E & G and 200kts below 2500ft in D within 4nm of class D aerodrome. AIP ENR 1.4-8 & 9
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Pay attention folk. Speed limit below 10,000ft is 250kts in C,D, E & G and 200kts below 2500ft in D within 4nm of class D aerodrome. AIP ENR 1.4-8 & 9 |
Originally Posted by Vag277
(Post 10293551)
Pay attention folk. Speed limit below 10,000ft is 250kts in C,D, E & G and 200kts below 2500ft in D within 4nm of class D aerodrome. AIP ENR 1.4-8 & 9
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Regarding birds: In North America it isn't uncommon to see 9-10kg geese at 10,000’, and there are other species that'll get to 14,000. See Hudson river ditching for the performance enhancing effects of geese. In ‘81 a lear pilot got decapitated by a duck at Cincinnati at 3,800’ on departure The Airbus I fly displays a speed exceedance message like (apparently) the 717. I am fairly sanguine about the prospect of encountering a large migratory waterfowl in Australia at altitude. I do so like flying fast below ten though, because it can save several precious seconds on each arrival. So I can then wait longer for ground transport. |
We just had a bird strike at 11000ft with 280kt IAS doing extensive damage. Palma de Mallorca.
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Originally Posted by safelife
(Post 10293636)
We just had a bird strike at 11000ft with 280kt IAS doing extensive damage. Palma de Mallorca.
One of the best I remember, from years ago, was a snake strike. Ansett or TAA, B727 or 737, don't remember, but the radome was all smashed up, and the remains of a snake was found against the fwd pressure bulkhead, it was assumed an eagle had dropped it when it evaded the aircraft. There have also been recorded a number of high altitude fish strikes, attributed to a thunderstorm tornado lifting them out of the water and carrying them to great height. In one case, it was conjectured that the fish was high enough for long enough to be frozen, thus doing much more damage than its estimated size would suggest. There is also a very famous case of a condor (I think) coming through the windscreen of a 727 over the Andes, something like FL 290 (??) the F/O was faced with a dead captain, blood and guts everywhere, and an explosive decompression with a very high LSA. He got everybody on the ground without further damage. Quite an effort. Tootle pip!! |
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